Help with info on a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle

[Brian Rothhammer]

You can fire form 30 06 brass and trim it down to 57mm.

Have you done this?

It is my understanding that the 'old school' method of reforming .30-'06 to 9.5X57 involved several steps with expanders, dies, trimmers... .

I have used fresh .35 Whelen brass, run once through a two die RCBS die set, trimmed to proper length.

Left to Right: New 9.5X57 from Reed's of Oklahoma, One of my old handloads from fresh .35 Whelen brass reformed with RCBS dies and filled with Hornady 3715, Original (1926 dated) DWM531, Once fired brass from one of my '.35 Whelen' handloads.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

To quote another member here, you could probably kill a buffalo by using a frozen sardine load - but why would you?

Perhaps a ready supply of frozen sardines offset by lack of other projectiles?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Definitely going to be using her for some bush pigs.

Please do include updates / photos after you get at some porkers with her.

 

[Matthias5662]

To add a bit about the Austrian proof marks of lack thereof. It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910. Your rifle's maker, James Woodward and Sons, was certainly one of the highest regarded British best gun makers of the time and they were located on St James's street (as your rifle indicates) from roughly the late 1800s until around 1937-39ish (just before WWII).

In general, the MS M1910 was a popular rifle at the time because the take down version you have would, in many cases, been fitted in a nice, leather covered valise for travel. A lot of British officers combing the far corners of the British Empire would order, purchase and carry these rifles abroad with them on their adventures. They were considered a good "lion gun" and/or part of a battery of rifles carried on safari, perhaps along with a .256 Mannlicher and a double gun.

Unfortunately, I've seen many Mannlicher Schoenauer take down rifles of various prewar models (M1903-M1910) with the stock broken at the same spot on the wrist. I can only guess it's the thinnest part of the stock and therefore some inherent weakness there.

Have fun shooting your own wonderful piece of history... if only it could tell us where all it has been and what it has seen!

 

[MS 9x56]

To add a bit about the Austrian proof marks of lack thereof. It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910. Your rifle's maker, James Woodward and Sons, was certainly one of the highest regarded British best gun makers of the time and they were located on St James's street (as your rifle indicates) from roughly the late 1800s until around 1937-39ish (just before WWII).
View attachment 618938
In general, the MS M1910 was a popular rifle at the time because the take down version you have would, in many cases, been fitted in a nice, leather covered valise for travel. A lot of British officers combing the far corners of the British Empire would order, purchase and carry these rifles abroad with them on their adventures. They were considered a good "lion gun" and/or part of a battery of rifles carried on safari, perhaps along with a .256 Mannlicher and a double gun.

Unfortunately, I've seen many Mannlicher Schoenauer take down rifles of various prewar models (M1903-M1910) with the stock broken at the same spot on the wrist. I can only guess it's the thinnest part of the stock and therefore some inherent weakness there.

Have fun shooting your own wonderful piece of history... if only it could tell us where all it has been and what it has seen!

I keep asking my model 1905 the same questions.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

..It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910.

Quite true, but most were on the 6.5X54 chambering of the original (prototype, pre production) M1900 as well as Y1903 'Greek Contract' (and their descendants) and M1903 sporting rifles / carbines.

That is why I say that it is unusual, though not unheard of, to find a M1910 MS (9.5X57 - .375 Nitro Express Rimless) without Austrian proofs.

From what I've read the 'Circle T' was for Tiegelgusstahl, indicative of a high grade steel for which the Steyr region was known.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this party... Things have been hectic and I haven't had a lot of free time.

Re: proof marks, I have a very early (three digit serial number) M1910 that as far as I know, was exported to the US. It has no proof marks.

The proof mark should be on both the barrel and the receiver. In my case, the barrel shows nothing, and the receiver has a soldered on scope mount, probably original, as it is set for a Viennese Snap Mount.

Both of my M1903s (one 1939, one 1921) do show the Austrian proof marks. Both were originally sold in the German market, and that is what I would expect.

All have the Tiegelgusstahl marking.

Re: cartridges, I would suggest being cautious. The new Dorfner stuff I had (now I just have fired brass, funny that) worked well. Dorfner is no longer making this round.I did find some older (c. 1950s, marked as non-corrosive) that had split cases after every firing. I did use it to fire my last nädel shoot, and I'm told the muzzle blast was impressive. I only fired about six rounds, and stopped when I noticed the splitting. I pulled the remaining rounds, and found cordite. Not trusting the brass, I used what I had to make some dummy rounds.

Winter project this year is to work up a load with the .375 Woodleighs I have found. Looking forward to Woodleigh making more.

 

[Robin Peck]

What year was it proofed? Marking should be on underside of barrel just forward of chamber. Should be a 3 or 4 digit number a slash followed by 2 digit number denoting the year it was proofed.

Be sure to use proper fitting fine (thin) drivers.

View attachment 617353
Rifle shown was the 711th arm to be 'Nitro Proofed' at Vienna (NPv) during calendar year 1907. It is an M1905 as identified by 'C 9.0' (9X56MS). The Steyr serial number is _1274_ which would be repeated on bolt, original stock.

I've never tried it, but have read (and viewed videos) that rubbing a bronze coin (pre 1982 U.S. Cent, old British Penny...) on those crusty spots may remove surface rust while leaving blueing intact.

I have a M-S 1905 dated 695.07...all matching, incl. stock...serial number 1295...very close

 

[Rolland]

Dyls85
I picked up a barreled action minus the stock and related hardware ,recently of a 1910 in 9.5x56 and through people here and another web site managed to get all the missing pieces. I did obtain a stock but it was cracked through the wrist, as of this posting I have made repairs to it in hopes it will work out. This is the first MS I have owned hopefully when I can find a set of dies and brass can get it out and shooting. I have found there is a lot of knowledge here that can help a new owner through the trials. Good luck on your acquisition.

 

[SaintPanzer]

For dies, try CH4D.