Help with info on a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle

[Dyls85]

Hi all, new member here and looking for some info. I inherited this Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 from my late grandfather. When I got the rifle it was looking very tired with a broken stock. I managed to machine out a stock and have gotten the rifle seated. When cleaning up the rifle I found quite a few markings, one of which on the barrel is “James Woodward & sons 64st Jamess st London SW”
I’d love to try gather up some history on this rifle. My Grandfather apparently bought the rifle from a famous elephant hunter in Zimbabwe and as the story goes, “this particular rifle has shot more elephant in Zimbabwe than any other rifle” my grandfather was always one for embellishments in his story telling, it would just be nice to have a bit of history to go with the rifle.

 

[C.W. Richter]

What caliber/cartridge is it?

 

[Fenstar]

That is a pretty neat piece of history! Good luck w restoration!

 

[Dyls85]

What caliber/cartridge is it?

It’s marked 375 ex, from research it the nitro express 375, or MS 9.5x57mm

 

[Certus]

Highly unlikely to be used for ele, at least as a main rifle. 9.5x56 is pretty anemic.

 

[Red Leg]

A number of the London and Birmingham makers imported MS rifles and carbines early in the 20th century and then marketed them under their name. This was an original rifle length model and it is heartbreaking that wonderful original stock was destroyed. Assuming it is still an original chambering, the Model 1810 was a 9.3x57. In an effort to make it "British" the UK gunmakers designated it the .375 rimless express - much like the .275 relationship to the 7x57. It would be a fine medium range PG caliber, but I would not try to use one on an elephant.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi all, new member here and looking for some info. I inherited this Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 from my late grandfather.

What you have is a Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 Take Down Model as manufactured by Oesterreiche Waffenfabriken Gesellschaft Steyr prior to the second world war.

If unaltered, the chambering is 9.5X57MS, also known as .375 Nitro Express Rimless.

The proprietary Mannlicher Schoenauer cartridges, each of which were model specific:
M1903 (as well as M1900 prototypes, Y1903 Greek military contracts) - 6.5X54MS.
M1905 - 9X56MS.
M1908 - 8X56MS.
M1910 - 9.5X57MS.

You will likely take up reloading to feed her. Load cartridges to these exact specifications of overall length and profile (including shape of projectile) and she will perform flawlessly:

This is my Grand Dad with his M1910 Take Down Model in Ceylon, 1930:

A considerable amount of information regarding the MS may be found here: https://www.africahunting.com/threa...908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

What caliber/cartridge is it?

All original / unaltered M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauers are 9.5X57 / .375 Nitro Express Rimless.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Highly unlikely to be used for ele, at least as a main rifle. 9.5x56 is pretty anemic.

I wouldn't want to be hit by a .375 Nitro Express.

W.D.M. Bell took bull elephant with the MS in 6.5X54 chambering.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Assuming it is still an original chambering, the Model 1810 was a 9.3x57. In an effort to make it "British" the UK gunmakers designated it the .375 rimless express..

The Model 1910 was chambered in 9.5X57 which was referred to by Brits as .375 Nitro Express Rimless, though the Brit load was two grains lighter on powder than was the DWM load for 9.5X57 cartridges.

Mauser had the 9.3X57 chambering.

 

[Red Leg]

The Model 1910 was chambered in 9.5X57 which was referred to by Brits as .375 Nitro Express Rimless, though the Brit load was two grains lighter on powder than was the DWM load for 9.5X57 cartridges.

Mauser had the 9.3X57 chambering.

You are correct, it was a 9.5 and not a 9.3. With a 270 gr bullet at 2200 fps it was superior to the .375 flanged, but would still not be my choice for poking either an elephant or a buffalo regardless how many Bell killed with his 6.5x54, 7x57, or .318 WR.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

You are correct, it was a 9.5 and not a 9.3. With a 270 gr bullet at 2200 fps it was superior to the .375 flanged, but would still not be my choice for poking either an elephant or a buffalo regardless how many Bell killed with his 6.5x54, 7x57, or .318 WR.

I wouldn't poke an elephant with anything less than a howitzer, myself, but the .375RNE is just right for invasive boars.

 

[Red Leg]

I wouldn't poke an elephant with anything less than a howitzer, myself, but the .375RNE is just right for invasive boars.

Concur

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

You are correct, it was a 9.5 and not a 9.3. With a 270 gr bullet at 2200 fps it was superior to the .375 flanged, but would still not be my choice for poking either an elephant or a buffalo regardless how many Bell killed with his 6.5x54, 7x57, or .318 WR.

Come to think of it, this buff seems to have ignored such advice:

Grand Dad's hat rack. Ceylon, 1930.
Buffalo taken at Maha Wewa Tank with M1910 Take Down Model.

 

[Red Leg]

Come to think of it, this buff seems to have ignored such advice:

View attachment 617016
Grand Dad's hat rack. Ceylon, 1930.
Buffalo taken at Maha Wewa Tank with M1910 Take Down Model.

I don't doubt it. A lot of cape buffalo succumbed to 30-06 bombardment as well between the wars. To quote another member here, you could probably kill a buffalo by using a frozen sardine load - but why would you?

 

[stef256]

John Taylor in his famous book African Rifles and Cartridges had firm opinions of most calibers as to their suitability for African Elephant

 

[stef256]

Here my MS 6,5x54 from abt 1920. Super accurate….

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

John Taylor in his famous book African Rifles and Cartridges had firm opinions of most calibers as to their suitability for African Elephant

Not very flattering re: 9.5X57MS.

 

[MS 9x56]

What year was it proofed? Marking should be on underside of barrel just forward of chamber. Should be a 3 or 4 digit number a slash followed by 2 digit number denoting the year it was proofed.

 

[stef256]

For Ceylon elephants and other Asian game the 9,5 MS was apparently adequate and handloaded with todays premium bullets wld probably be ok for anything.