Gun control???

[gizmo]

...and...I think there is another thread that is discussing if the NRA "us against them" and the "don't give in on anything or we will loose all our guns" is actually helping or hurting.

I haven’t looked in on those threads but I’ll just say that a government, any government, is like a small child in that if you give them an inch they will take a mile.
Rights typically aren’t lost all at once, they are slowly chipped away at taking a small piece at a time until one day we all look up and wonder what in the hell just happened.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Also, I’ll see if I can find it but I saw an interesting statistic some time ago that had to do with what you just posted. Basically if you took Chicago, Detroit, and NYC out of the equation the US fell to one of the lowestest gun violence rates in that study you posted. The ironic thing about it is that those three cities have the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Islands of gun control obviously don't work.
Can't exclude some of the nuts in your country to screw with the stats. That's cheating.

 

[gizmo]

Islands of gun control obviously don't work.
Can't exclude some of the nuts in your country to screw with the stats. That's cheating.

Lol. Agreed but I still found it interesting.

 

[gizmo]

To point though those cities have certainly shown that you can ban things all day long but people will still kill each other. Just in this case they are doing so with the tools that are absolutely the most controlled.

 

[IdaRam]

Can’t seem to find it right now, but the graph I am looking for that Gizmo mentioned shows US homicide rate at about 1.8 per hundred thousand when Chicago, Detroit and NYC are eliminated from the data IIRC
So, it would seem we must eliminate Chicago, Detroit and NYC
Anybody know what the gun laws are like in those cities?

 

[gizmo]

Can’t seem to find it right now, but the graph I am looking for that Gizmo mentioned shows US homicide rate at about 1.8 per hundred thousand when Chicago, Detroit and NYC are eliminated from the data IIRC
So, it would seem we must eliminate Chicago, Detroit and NYC
Anybody know what the gun laws are like in those cities?

I’ve been looking too and can’t remember where I saw it. In my defense I drink a lot soooo...... anyway, while where at it most of California can get exiled too and Detroit, NYC, and Chicago have the strictest gun laws in the country.

 

[IdaRam]

But you did a better job of saying it @IdaRam

Nope, not even close.

 

[IdaRam]

Along a slightly different veign, Idaho passed a law allowing concealed weapons on college campus a couple years ago. Non-event
If my daughter was attending BSU, I would sleep more soundly knowing she was able to defend herself and classmates if necessary.

 

[gizmo]

Along a slightly different veign, Idaho passed a law allowing concealed weapons on college campus a couple years ago. Non-event
If my daughter was attending BSU, I would sleep more soundly knowing she was able to defend herself and classmates if necessary.

We did the same here in Texas and actually mandated that Universities are required to allow areas for concealed carry. There are certain buildings that the school can put off limits but common areas and dorms etc... they are required to allow concealed carry. Same here non event, no one has gone nuts and killed people because they could all the sudden legally carry a concealed weapon with a CHL. Additionally we passed open carry and guess what...... same thing non event. All of the left’s predicted mayhem never happened and I feel many parents sleep better at night knowing their children at least have a shot at defending themselves should something terrible happen.

 

[gizmo]

I still just can’t understand why a percentage of our population truly believes that some law saying a law abiding citizen can’t be armed will somehow prevent said law abiding citizen from going on a killing spree. WE ARENT Talking about law abided citizens. The people that do things like that are f’n nuts!!!!!! And they don’t give a damn whether there is a law in place or not otherwise the fact that murder is illegal in the first place would prevent it to begin with.
If Joe whack job decides to kill people the mere fact that the people in said place are armed is a huuuuge deterrent. The thing is they know going in they are going to get their ass shot off. Hence the reason they target gun free zones to begin with. In fact on the rare occasion some dipshit decides to attack a place that is likely to contain armed people they are often stopped by an armed citizen yet that rarely makes the mainstream news because it doesn’t meet their agenda. I have seen armed citizens stop things that could have potentially been a national media worthy disaster yet even in rootin tootin gun toting Texas local media rarely if ever say anything about it. If they do it’s a quick non descriptive excerpt.

 

[mark-hunter]

Now, lets have a look at a comparison of overall murder rates across the world. per 100,000

As per table attached, murder rate per 100.000, it seams that 15 696 Americans gets murdered .

15,000 out of 100,000 - makes 15%.
This number is not logical, it is like war zone, so my guess the number is not realistic. Simply it is impossible.

 

[IdaRam]

I still just can’t understand why a percentage of our population truly believes that some law saying a law abiding citizen can’t be armed will somehow prevent said law abiding citizen from going on a killing spree. WE ARENT Talking about law abided citizens. The people that do things like that are f’n nuts!!!!!! And they don’t give a damn whether there is a law in place or not otherwise the fact that murder is illegal in the first place would prevent it to begin with.
If Joe whack job decides to kill people the mere fact that the people in said place are armed is a huuuuge deterrent. The thing is they know going in they are going to get their ass shot off. Hence the reason they target gun free zones to begin with. In fact on the rare occasion some dipshit decides to attack a place that is likely to contain armed people they are often stopped by an armed citizen yet that rarely makes the mainstream news because it doesn’t meet their agenda. I have seen armed citizens stop things that could have potentially been a national media worthy disaster yet even in rootin tootin gun toting Texas local media rarely if ever say anything about it. If they do it’s a quick non descriptive excerpt.

It is beyond me as well. It seems pretty straight forward, but...
Criminals will obtain firearms by any means possible. Just like drug dealers and addicts obtain drugs even though they are illegal.

 

[IdaRam]

Wonder why this hasn’t been widely reported by the media?

April 27, 2018
7 dead, 12 injured in knife attack at Chinese Middle School.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chinese-middle-school-stabbings-7-killed/ar-AAwr5x5

 

[Scott Slough]

I still just can’t understand why a percentage of our population truly believes that some law saying a law abiding citizen can’t be armed will somehow prevent said law abiding citizen from going on a killing spree. WE ARENT Talking about law abided citizens. The people that do things like that are f’n nuts!!!!!! And they don’t give a damn whether there is a law in place or not otherwise the fact that murder is illegal in the first place would prevent it to begin with.
If Joe whack job decides to kill people the mere fact that the people in said place are armed is a huuuuge deterrent. The thing is they know going in they are going to get their ass shot off. Hence the reason they target gun free zones to begin with. In fact on the rare occasion some dipshit decides to attack a place that is likely to contain armed people they are often stopped by an armed citizen yet that rarely makes the mainstream news because it doesn’t meet their agenda. I have seen armed citizens stop things that could have potentially been a national media worthy disaster yet even in rootin tootin gun toting Texas local media rarely if ever say anything about it. If they do it’s a quick non descriptive excerpt.

The simple answer is that most Americans assume that more guns equal less safety. They do not understand why a law abiding person would feel the need to carry a gun to do the same thing that they do every day (go to work, school, church, grocery store, etc.).

 

[gizmo]

The simple answer is that most Americans assume that more guns equal less safety. They do not understand why a law abiding person would feel the need to carry a gun to do the same thing that they do every day (go to work, school, church, grocery store, etc.).

My answer to that is that it is exactly that, an assumption. There is absolutely no data to back that. There are more legal gun owners in say DFW then say NYC yet the gun crime rate is lower in DFW.
On the second part, well all I can say is they will die with the rest of the sheep if something were to happen. See it’s not until a person sees the evil in people that they realize that bad shit happens to good people. The average Joe lives his life in his little bubble and thinks, no truly believes in his heart, that nothing bad will ever happen to him. Then it does, and he’s standing there with his jaw dropped and pants down.
Everyone wants a fairy tale world where bad things don’t happen but that’s not reality. Bad things do happen, daily, and to good people.
Hell I had a guy try to rob me one time while I was off duty, on my day off, and in a public parking lot. I still laugh at the education that fella got. Fortunately he realized how bad of a decision he made pretty quickly and I didn’t have to kill him. I’m sure he was baffled at how shitty his luck was to pick an off duty armed cop to try to rob.
Point being, I would have never in a billion years thought some moron would literally try and rob me with a knife in a Hastings parking lot on the good side of town but guess what, it happened and I was ready. Had I not been, best case scenario I’d lost my wallet and probably my truck worst case the asshole would have stabbed me.
People don’t ask to be victims, they are just to naive to believe they could be a victim. It’s the same people that throw and absolute shit fit when their car gets broken into because they left their purse or wallet in the car. They scream they have the right to leave whatever in their car and they shouldn’t have to worry about it getting stolen. Well guess what? You do have the right to leave shit in your car but reality says you should expect it to get stolen because that’s the REAL WORLD. Plain and simple. No one likes it but that’s reality.
Everyone has a choice, refuse to be a victim and take preventative measures or take your chances. The reality is about half of people take their chances because they are to naive to think it could happen to them.
Victims almost always say the exact same thing in almost every instance if they are able to talk, “ I can’t believe this happened” well guess what it did and it’s your fault for not being prepared.
People often wonder why cops are so cynical well there you have it, it’s because people walk around with their heads shoved up their rear ends and absolutely refuse to accept the fact that something could ever happen to them. Everything is puppies, ice cream, and unicorn farts and all that bad stuff happens to other people not me.
So ya a lot maybe even most people believe they don’t need a gun or armed citizenry or police to feel safe but that’s because they are completely oblivious to reality.

 

[Scott Slough]

My answer to that is that it is exactly that, an assumption. There is absolutely no data to back that. There are more legal gun owners in say DFW then say NYC yet the gun crime rate is lower in DFW.
On the second part, well all I can say is they will die with the rest of the sheep if something were to happen. See it’s not until a person sees the evil in people that they realize that bad shit happens to good people. The average Joe lives his life in his little bubble and thinks, no truly believes in his heart, that nothing bad will ever happen to him. Then it does, and he’s standing there with his jaw dropped and pants down.
Everyone wants a fairy tale world where bad things don’t happen but that’s not reality. Bad things do happen, daily, and to good people.
Hell I had a guy try to rob me one time while I was off duty, on my day off, and in a public parking lot. I still laugh at the education that fella got. Fortunately he realized how bad of a decision he made pretty quickly and I didn’t have to kill him. I’m sure he was baffled at how shitty his luck was to pick an off duty armed cop to try to rob.
Point being, I would have never in a billion years thought some moron would literally try and rob me with a knife in a Hastings parking lot on the good side of town but guess what, it happened and I was ready. Had I not been, best case scenario I’d lost my wallet and probably my truck worst case the asshole would have stabbed me.
People don’t ask to be victims, they are just to naive to believe they could be a victim. It’s the same people that throw and absolute shit fit when their car gets broken into because they left their purse or wallet in the car. They scream they have the right to leave whatever in their car and they shouldn’t have to worry about it getting stolen. Well guess what? You do have the right to leave shit in your car but reality says you should expect it to get stolen because that’s the REAL WORLD. Plain and simple. No one likes it but that’s reality.
Everyone has a choice, refuse to be a victim and take preventative measures or take your chances. The reality is about half of people take their chances because they are to naive to think it could happen to them.
Victims almost always say the exact same thing in almost every instance if they are able to talk, “ I can’t believe this happened” well guess what it did and it’s your fault for not being prepared.
People often wonder why cops are so cynical well there you have it, it’s because people walk around with their heads shoved up their rear ends and absolutely refuse to accept the fact that something could ever happen to them. Everything is puppies, ice cream, and unicorn farts and all that bad stuff happens to other people not me.
So ya a lot maybe even most people believe they don’t need a gun or armed citizenry or police to feel safe but that’s because they are completely oblivious to reality.

There is no data because the NRA has successfully lobbied to make it illegal to collect that data

 

[gizmo]

That is completely false. Every firearm bought in a store goes through NCIC. Every firearm in a store is documented and inventoried for the BATF. Every one.
Yes, it is true that private sales are exempt but that is small potatoes in comparison to the amount of sales in stores.
The numbers are there you just have to look, and it’s all public information.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

1. Gun bans are effective at reducing deaths in schools....that is a simple fact. You don't like that...but it is a fact.
2. I do not support the NRA position that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
3. The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to keep the bad guy from getting a gun...so....ideas you may not like...but I believe would work.
A. National registration of all guns
B. Close ALL background check loopholes (especially gun shows, person to person)
C. Lengthen the wait time for a legal gun
D. Make possessing an unregistered gun a crime.
E. Punish possession of an unregistered gun...no exceptions.

Regarding letter A, it would seem you've bought into the revisionist history that the founding fathers of this country did not intend for the citizens of this country to be armed such that they could replace the government if they found the need to do so in the future. This would mean having to ignore the fact that these same folks led a revolution against the British and knew they were only able to do so by arming themselves against them.

Now before you head down the road of "if you think you can win a war against the U.S. military, you're crazy," I certainly don't think so at all. But then I'd like to think that the U.S. government would rethink things when it came down to using military force to suppress such a rebellion. Then again there was that Waco fracas during the Clinton administration.

Registering guns is just one step away from the government confiscating guns. Hitler with the military he built back up thought that was a great idea when it came to the Jews.

Regarding letter B, no problem by me. But how about we enforce the background checks? As was mentioned there were all sorts of alarms going off about the shooter in Florida and nothing was done to prevent that shooting. Was that perhaps intentional?

Regarding letter C, do you really think lengthening the time it took for the Vegas shooter to acquire weapons would have done any good? What length of time do you think we should have had in place? How does time in and of itself prevent these mass shootings?

Regarding letters D and E, see my response to letter A. The second amendment says nothing about legal or illegal guns.

 

[gizmo]

Additionally every single private sale in which the firearm is shipped also goes through the entire process. Hence the reason it has to be shipped to an FFL so a background check can be done.
This whole notion that all these guns are being bought and sold with no ones knowledge is a joke.
Do private sales happen which aren’t documented sure but they are in the vast minority.

 

[gizmo]

And for the record I am in support of background checks. I just wish that those laws we already have would be enforced.
The NRA is also in support of background checks. Has made public statements as to such my entire life.
The NRA however very fortunately pays attention to the fine print and educates and opposes all those bills that over reach the intent. I am a life NRA member and a huge NRA supporter. If you enjoy having your 3 safes of gun’s you should really thank the NRA for the work they have done to make sure you can still have them.