Got the CZ blues

[rookhawk]

Bought a CZ 550 458 Lott last week. Loaded up the magazine today and..... 100% failure to feed every time. Will not feed Hornady 500 gr solids, the only ammo the gun shop had. I'll try another type of ammo but I'm not hopeful. I had a 550 in 416 Rigby and it worked perfectly out of the box. Honestly I'm not mad or surprised, kind of expected this result. It will get fixed but, the itch I had to scratch was to finally shoot the Lott. Had to see what the recoil was like for myself, it wasn't bad. John

Not altogether suprising, but still disappointing I'm sure, John. The problem is that each of these large bores has a different cartridge dimension and bullet size. One-size-fits-all feed ramps are not a winning plan. A good gunsmith would surely get it working perfect with every type of ammo if you handed him 5 different brands of dummy rounds and turned him loose on it. In defense of your Rigby, its an easy-feeding cartridge shape, just as the 375HH is. The 458 Lott is bulky and has a big bullet in relation to neck. It needs an hour or two of time with a gunsmith to feed well.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Bought a CZ 550 458 Lott last week. Loaded up the magazine today and..... 100% failure to feed every time. Will not feed Hornady 500 gr solids, the only ammo the gun shop had. I'll try another type of ammo but I'm not hopeful. I had a 550 in 416 Rigby and it worked perfectly out of the box. Honestly I'm not mad or surprised, kind of expected this result. It will get fixed but, the itch I had to scratch was to finally shoot the Lott. Had to see what the recoil was like for myself, it wasn't bad. John

Scope it and make sure it will zero with a scope before you go and do alot of work on it. I found out this the hard way. Still trying to get this issue resolved. Zeroing with a scope is a known issue with the Lott and 416 Rigby I found out.

 

[John J]

Copy that gentleman. The scope zero situation is news to me.

 

[machinistbutler]

Post us some pics John! Did it some with some nice wood?

 

[John J]

She's nothing fancy, but she's mine. I had a wood stocked CZ in 416 Rigby that I don't think fit me to well. Recoil was terrible and the rifle was to heavy. Thus my reason for trying the synthetic on the 458, so far I'm happy, less the feeding issue. Here is my 14 year old son shooting it today. Till now the largest caliber he has fired is 450/400 NE. He can handle the 500 MDM which is on par with the Lott recoil. John

 

[machinistbutler]

That's great, I put a bell and Carlson on mine before I fired it. Recoil was ok with the loads I had and the nosler factory. You do have to hang on, but I expected more of a beating. Off the bench it wouldn't be pleasant .

 

[Earle]

Waiting for the B&C i ordered a month or so ago as well. It's going on my older 416Rigby. Had to order it special as my older 550 only has the single recoil lug. If i like it i may well order another for my new 458. It has the bavarian (hump back) same as the older 416

 

[Earle]

Well guy's, i feel a little sheepish. Got a call from the gun shop today and went in a had a chat. After a rather long discussion it was decided the best, easiest and most cost effective route was a simple ream out to a Lott. I've nothing against a Lott, just always been drawn to the WM, sorta like the underdog or poor relation. Anyway it's kind of a win/win situation. The work is going to cost less, feeding issues will be rectified, ammo costs will decrease and one can not argue that the Lott is superior cartridge. Probably should have gone with the Lott to start with. LOL.

 

[BeeMaa]

Why does kimber only offer their caprivi in 375? Seems like the market isn't very strong for the big calibers . Does anyone make a 416 Rigby in an affordable package?

The Caprivi was offered in 375H&H, 416RM and 458LOTT.
It may have been offered in other calibers as well but I'm not sure.
Now it only the 375H&H for the Caprivi.
The Kimber Talkeetna is a stainless/synthetic version of the Caprivi.

As for your 416RIGBY question...
You need to clarify what exactly is "affordable" to you.
There are some Dakota 76's and Heym's available on GI for $5K-$10K.
Also, Sako made some Brown Bears in 416RIGBY.

Do a search on GunsInternational.com

 

[Nhoro]

Well guy's, i feel a little sheepish. Got a call from the gun shop today and went in a had a chat. After a rather long discussion it was decided the best, easiest and most cost effective route was a simple ream out to a Lott. I've nothing against a Lott, just always been drawn to the WM, sorta like the underdog or poor relation. Anyway it's kind of a win/win situation. The work is going to cost less, feeding issues will be rectified, ammo costs will decrease and one can not argue that the Lott is superior cartridge. Probably should have gone with the Lott to start with. LOL.

I did exactly the same with my win mag. I agree 100% with your gunshop's advice. I studied the problem for a long time and I think you have made the right call. The CZ action is large and that short win mag round just has too much space. The Lott straightens out the feed and mine even feeds a bullet that has been put in the case backwards-full calibre flat nose.

I am also happy with the Lott as a cartridge. Handloading with 515 gr solids, I have managed to get up to 2345 fps but have settled on 2200 to 2250 fps depending on which powder I use. It is noticeably more recoil than a win mag with 480 gr @2145 but still manageable.

 

[Shawn.54]

Hi y'all. Hope i'm posting in the right section. Got a brand new 550 chambered in 458wm that i took to the range for the first time Monday. Immediate woe's. As can be seen in the pics, it does not like 450g bullets. Jams every time. I know a lot of you guy's have extensive experience with CZs and hope someone has some suggestions. Try 500g bullets? Take it to a "smith"? Call CZ? Give up and buy a M70 (LOL). Any thots will be appreciated as i am at a loss on how to proceed. My 416Rigby operates flawlessly and it's a 550. Go figure.

View attachment 365935View attachment 365936View attachment 365937

I’m not an expert on this but I do have a little experience with feeding issues I converted a 98 Mauser to 404 Jeffery and did all the work myself and after a few hours of tweaking a new magazine and grinding polishing a action it all came together and I understood what Mr Mauser had engineered and how it worked.
I know that this is a CZ 550 and that it’s not a Mauser but as far as I know it’s supposed to be a controlled feed Mauser style action and the jam in that position is looking like a jam in a push feed. What I’m seeing there is the cartridge should at that point in the bolt stroke be locked in the bolt face and lined up with the chamber. When I was working my feed rails to get proper feeding when I hit the sweet spot the cartridge just pops up into the bolt face after a very short push and the sweat spot is very small.005-.010 take it two far and new problems start. What I’m trying to get at is this looks to me as a feed rail issue in the area of the back of the action the longer 500s would have more leverage quicker and are able to overcome what is holding it from jumping up into bolt face. And it doesn’t take much to get things out of time. Feel for bur or rough spot on underside of rails a bur on bottom of the bolt face that could cause it to slow the cartridge down as it slides up the face I’m not telling you to get out the grinder and start grinding but to feel for anything that would grab the case and prevent it from slipping up the bolt face. Also inspect the jammed brass for scratches on the body or belt or even the case head where it slides up. Just a little bit of information that could save time and $$.

 

[fourfive8]

I did a little experimenting today. I'm still not buying into the idea that either the ammo length is wrong or the bullet meplat is too wide... that CZ, factory chambered in 458 WM, should feed (or have fed) those 458 WM cartridges with all weight, flavor and shape of bullets! Something is not right with that CZ design-- either the magazine or the follower or the feed rails or something... It is (was) not the ammo- nor should it be! In any case, I do hope the Lott conversion solves the issue.

I have a Montana 99 I put together without modification of any action part. It will handle cartridges up to 3.6" OAL. A Montana 99 is kind of a Mauser-Winchester 70 hybrid design. I chambered it in 450 Watts which is simply a very slightly longer cousin to the Lott. It feeds and cycles the 450 Watts slick as snot no matter the bullet type/shape/weight up to the OAL max of 3.6".

I rounded up some of the double crimp groove Rem soft, flat points and seated one at the upper groove in a 458 Win Mag case for an OAL of 3.064". It cycled and fed slick as snot through the Montana 99, feeling no different than cycling a full length Watts. I did the experiment for two reasons-- 1) to verify my suspicions that the CZ design may be flawed for the WM length and shouldn't be chambered in that length or a flaw introduced or not addressed at the factory is the cause of the OP's feed problem.... not the type, weight, shape of the bullet and 2) to verify that my 450 Watts will cycle a short, wide meplat bullet ammo in 458 WM if pressed to do so. I have previously shot and cycled quite a few slightly shorter Lott length cartridges in the rifle but not the much shorter Win Mag.

Pic shows standard 450 Watts, 458 WM with 405 gr Rem bullet as tested for function and a 405 gr Rem bullet.

 

[hammz]

I just picked up a new 550 in 458 Lott and am happy to say I do not have any feeding issues, thankfully. Tried soft points and solids. The action is rough like they typically tend to be, but everything feeds fine surprisingly. I plan on sending it to Wayne at AHR eventually to have a barrel band swivel and muzzle brake installed.

I had a discussion with Wayne and he informed me of the scope situation like you all mentioned. I plan on taking mine out next week when I sight in my hunting rifle for deer season, and am going to move my scope off my 300 Win Mag and onto the Lott to see if it zeroes fine.

 

[Earle]

That is an interesting observation. Don't know really what to make of it. Had the CZ conversion to the range again yesterday and am very satisfied with the Lott. Feeds and ejects as it should and accuracy is good. At least as good as i am, LOL Going to need lots of practice off the stix.

I did a little experimenting today. I'm still not buying into the idea that either the ammo length is wrong or the bullet meplat is too wide... that CZ, factory chambered in 458 WM, should feed (or have fed) those 458 WM cartridges with all weight, flavor and shape of bullets! Something is not right with that CZ design-- either the magazine or the follower or the feed rails or something... It is (was) not the ammo- nor should it be! In any case, I do hope the Lott conversion solves the issue.

I have a Montana 99 I put together without modification of any action part. It will handle cartridges up to 3.6" OAL. A Montana 99 is kind of a Mauser-Winchester 70 hybrid design. I chambered it in 450 Watts which is simply a very slightly longer cousin to the Lott. It feeds and cycles the 450 Watts slick as snot no matter the bullet type/shape/weight up to the OAL max of 3.6".

I rounded up some of the double crimp groove Rem soft, flat points and seated one at the upper groove in a 458 Win Mag case for an OAL of 3.064". It cycled and fed slick as snot through the Montana 99, feeling no different than cycling a full length Watts. I did the experiment for two reasons-- 1) to verify my suspicions that the CZ design may be flawed for the WM length and shouldn't be chambered in that length or a flaw introduced or not addressed at the factory is the cause of the OP's feed problem.... not the type, weight, shape of the bullet and 2) to verify that my 450 Watts will cycle a short, wide meplat bullet ammo in 458 WM if pressed to do so. I have previously shot and cycled quite a few slightly shorter Lott length cartridges in the rifle but not the much shorter Win Mag.

Pic shows standard 450 Watts, 458 WM with 405 gr Rem bullet as tested for function and a 405 gr Rem bullet.

View attachment 369790

 

[bassasdaindia]

Scope it and make sure it will zero with a scope before you go and do alot of work on it. I found out this the hard way. Still trying to get this issue resolved. Zeroing with a scope is a known issue with the Lott and 416 Rigby I found out.

respectfully I don't agree , my CZ 550's in 416 Rigby /404 Jeff and 458 Lott shoot moa with scopes all day long .
excellent platforms and extremely accurate rifles.

 

[Begger]

I’ve followed this thread the entire length, and there’s a lot of discussion concerning CZ actions, an some discussion about M70 Winchester actions. Ruger factory chambered their RSM rifle in 458 Lott. Any opinions on these actions?

 

[colorado]

Several 3 shot groups from my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery at 50 yards. It also shoots well under 2" at 200 yards. I fired for groups at 50 yards just to check it out when I first sighted it in. My handloads, 570g TSX, 2250 fps chrono'd. Furthest shot so far, cow elk at 225 yards. She didn't get up.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

respectfully I don't agree , my CZ 550's in 416 Rigby /404 Jeff and 458 Lott shoot moa with scopes all day long .
excellent platforms and extremely accurate rifles.

CZ knows there is an issue with some of the 416 Rigbys and 458 Lotts. So does Wayne at AHR, he still has mine working on it. Not all of them do, but some have had issues with scopes running out of elevation adjustment before zero is reached, they shoot low. I personally have tried 2 more brand new in the box 458 Lotts that had same issue and both were returned to where purchased after trying them with Swarovski scopes. You can get to zero with a high MOA scope such as Leupold VX5 or VX6 but you have to use up alot of your elevation to do it. Which is not ideal. I have been in contact with a VP at CZ and they know about this issue and my rifle issue and he said they have had this happen with some rifles in these two calibers in the past.
I love all my other CZs and have no issues with them, except this one that is giving problems.

All I suggest is if you buy one in these calibers is try it before spending any money on upgrades.

 

[Nhoro]

I did a little experimenting today. I'm still not buying into the idea that either the ammo length is wrong or the bullet meplat is too wide... that CZ, factory chambered in 458 WM, should feed (or have fed) those 458 WM cartridges with all weight, flavor and shape of bullets! Something is not right with that CZ design-

You are completely correct-All rifles should feed conventional ammo. I help out at the Zimbabwe PH shooting exams 3 times a year (and watch some youtube hunting videos). I can tell you that this is not only a CZ problem- all manufacturers have problems.

Without being too technical, the width of the magazine box and the reciever that forms the top of the magazine is most at fault. Every magazine should have a set width for each cartridge. Although 375 h&h and 458 win mag and lott have the same base, they have different lengths and tapers. But you will see most manufacturers produce one machined casting for a reciever. The width does not vary for different cartridges. So I dont think it is a CZ problem but rather all manufacturers being cheapass and chiselling a dollar out of the consumer.

Every rifle that is destined for dangerous game needs to be tested under as much pressure as you can create on the range-then you will see the deficiencies and can fix them. I have seen pretty much all rifle makes fail and misfeed during those tests.

 

[fourfive8]

I think Mauser originally worked all that out in detail... all the geometric parameters required for feeding the various cartridges. But given the nearly endless variety of cartridges it would indeed be impossible, at a reasonable cost, for any manufacturer to design a receiver/action/magazine for each.

One test I do is to cycle empty cases. The other is to study the ejection process to make sure the empty comes out clean. Out of a CRF, It should not hIt anything during ejection and should be flipping end over end, clockwise for a right hand action... ideally at a fairly low angle.