Good Gun Deals This Week

[Wishfulthinker580]

I agree 100% with you. But if I had 5k sitting around growing dust and was itching for a lovely rifle, that would be my first stop. The Springer 7x64 calls out to me...

I really like that little Schuler 6.5x57 with the roe deer on the floor plate

 

[MMAL]

Would love to hear what the community thinks about this:

Label: Browning B25 Superpose 12gauge barrel set and a .375 H&H barrel set. The .375 does Not have any custom scope mounts.

Serial: 224NZ. Grade 1, 20g frame which is what the browning custom shop used. NZmeans made in 1991.

Case Hardened with minimal engraving and not signed.

I would rate as slightly below average condition. No rust, good barrels and rifling, no pitting. The forearm checking on the 12 gauge is wore off or damaged in some spots. I would say 15% on one side is damaged. The stock is the lowest grade and does show. Some minimal dents in stock but nothing major.

Retailer wanted $7,499. I will keep my thoughts on value to myself till I hear from more knowledgeable people.

Thoughts.

 

[Aaron N]

For the Candians:

Here’s your good deal alert.

Cogswell & Harrison made a fair amount of dangerous game rifles. Many were on P17/P19 actions (yuck) but some were made on 98 Mauser actions. (Glorious)

In fact, my most accurate safari rifle is indeed, a Cogswell & Harrison London made 375HH Mauser. They made a bunch of these in the 1951-1953 era to supply largely to the Parks departments of Africa and held some in reserve to sell to cost conscious customers. They are beautiful, functional safari rifles.

The one at Epps in Canada is in very good condition for the paltry sum of $3995 CAD. The condition looks excellent. It has an upgraded hybrid between file rib “rigby style” rear sight island and a quarter rib, compared to most I have seen that were small islands with a standing and folding sight arrangement. Nice.

For what amounts to $3100 US Dollars, its a heck of a fine gun.

Ellwood Epps Sporting Goods

Online shopping in Canada for hunting supplies, new and used firearms and bows, rare gun parts and obsolete ammunition. A great selection of fishing, camping and shooting supplies in our Orillia stores, north of Barrie, Ontario.

ellwoodepps.com

A little detour in the thread, why are some C&H guns so cheap?

 

[rookhawk]

A little detour in the thread, why are some C&H guns so cheap?

Because they A.) Made a lot of guns, B.) Were deemed “middle class”, the very least expensive of the London makers. They did make best guns too, but its pretty hard to ask best-gun money for a C&H.

I’ve owned at least ten to fifteen C&H guns over the years and none of them have been found lacking in any way. All were purchased for what I thought was a price far less than they would have been engraved with any other London maker’s name retailing the same quality gun that ironically the other London makers didn’t make either. (Most of the makers were retailing guns made by the same 2-3 makers in Birmingham after engraving their own name and getting them proofed in London)

 

[Cam Moon]

For $250 you can have a good US deal shipped your way

Irunguns?

 

[rookhawk]

I agree 100% with you. But if I had 5k sitting around growing dust and was itching for a lovely rifle, that would be my first stop. The Springer 7x64 calls out to me...

i saw the Springer. Beautiful gun. Reason it isn’t sold is the scope rings are too high to clear the flag safety. Thus, not a usable stalking rifle for practical purposes. $5000 or more to cure that.

 

[Aaron N]

i saw the Springer. Beautiful gun. Reason it isn’t sold is the scope rings are too high to clear the flag safety. Thus, not a usable stalking rifle for practical purposes. $5000 or more to cure that.

Sadly it seems to be the common theme in most period guns within my means

 

[thi9elsp]

Thank you to all who are participating on this thread. Though not in the market for a new to me rifle I am enjoying the education.

 

[Aaron N]

Irunguns?

That’s right, Prophet River uses border view.

My father used them once a few years ago on his own, not through Prophet, and they seemed to take an unholy amount of time for a simple process.

 

[Shootist43]

Rookhawk, I've wondered for several years now how the rest of us might benefit from your knowledge. Thanks for allowing / enabling us to do so. Because of this effort, I may find myself in the market for a nicer rifle than those I usually look for. Now we have to find a way to keep from bidding against each other.

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, I've wondered for several years now how the rest of us might benefit from your knowledge. Thanks for allowing / enabling us to do so. Because of this effort, I may find myself in the market for a nicer rifle than those I usually look for. Now we have to find a way to keep from bidding against each other.

We're a small community and there are more than enough guns to go around. Many times members contact me and others on private chat to talk about a bid-plan for a gun coming up to auction at Holts, Gavin Gardner, Bonhams, Sothebys, RIA, James Julia, etc. When a private question is asked, everyone is pretty respectful about keeping that members bid intentions private. Nobody knows everything, so these sorts of conversations usually involve several members. In particular, I know that @Red Leg is a perennially helpful member that knows a LOT about firearms. I ask him to sanity check my purchases often as well and he's been instrumental in verifying my assumptions.

There are a great many people in this group that are here to help each other out. Everyone's expertise and specialization is different as well. My expertise is british shotguns and European stalking/safari rifles. There are members on here that are world famous authors on bore rifles. Others that know Ferlachs intimately. Others that know best American guns from the golden era.

It's a community and I thought we'd enjoy talking about guns on this thread that are not listed on AH. Since they are not listed on AH, we can be absolutely transparent with one another (and disparaging of a gun when the shoe fits) without insulting our fellow members. Sometimes we learn more from a critique of a gun and discussing defects the potential buyer overlooked.

 

[rookhawk]

Would love to hear what the community thinks about this:

Label: Browning B25 Superpose 12gauge barrel set and a .375 H&H barrel set. The .375 does Not have any custom scope mounts.

Serial: 224NZ. Grade 1, 20g frame which is what the browning custom shop used. NZmeans made in 1991.

Case Hardened with minimal engraving and not signed.

I would rate as slightly below average condition. No rust, good barrels and rifling, no pitting. The forearm checking on the 12 gauge is wore off or damaged in some spots. I would say 15% on one side is damaged. The stock is the lowest grade and does show. Some minimal dents in stock but nothing major.

Retailer wanted $7,499. I will keep my thoughts on value to myself till I hear from more knowledgeable people.

Thoughts.

@MMAL

The value of the gun you're describing, in my opinion, is closer to zero than the asking price. Browning aficionados may hate me for that statement, but there will be differences of opinion on brownings before any other facts come to the forefront. This is sight-unseen, so I'm rendering an opinion on your description alone.

First, Browning isn't a thing. Its not a factory. Its a couple of marketing guys and a gaggle of attorneys deciding to license and silk-screen a logo onto something, made by someone, somewhere. Some of those things were high quality, some of those things were engraved by the finest engravers in the Belgian trade (e.g. Angelo Bee), and some of that stuff was utter garbage even when new. (e.g. salt wood era Belgian brownings?

So you stated it's a Browning Superposed. Superposed guns have a cult following for a handful of people, particularly or primarily in sub-gauge shotguns in pointer, diana, and olympic grades and then when new in box with papers. These guns were made by FN Herstal in Liege, Belgium I believe. Some of those "neophyte collectors" started buying the copies of these in later years that were made by Miroku in Japan for those lawyers and marketing guys. The quality was good on the Japanese guns as well, but geeze, paying big money for Japanese guns takes a leap for many, I believe their collectibility was based on brand recognition by those that had more money than common sense. (same guys that buy post-64 collector edition winchesters made ironically in the same factory as the brownings)

Then you're adding a 375HH barrel set to a shotgun, whether its a 12 gauge frame or a 20 gauge frame. Browning was never known for double rifles. Zero idea who tinkered their way into building those barrels in 1990 for browning but caution all over that. Then its an over/under 375HH, something that is very unpopular and hard to sell where very high-quality examples can fetch $5000-$7000 made by Heym or by the Ferlachs, often with 3-4 sets of barrels and several scopes. Then you add in that it is almost certainly a single trigger example and it is nearly unsaleable.

I suspect mint, unused, in the box, the B25 with 375HH barrel set would sit for a very long time at $7500 until an uninformed Browning lover bought it because the box said browning on it. It's inherent quality would be quite low, much lower than 95% of 375HH guns offered for sale at $7500.

The "blind love" of brownings in some people's minds will not save this rifle from a ridiculously low value. It wasn't highly engraved and it has been drug around. Collectors of brownings want mint in box, never touched by human hands. They also want higher grades that were rarer. As you describe the design, it sounds like it was custom ordered to be beneath their CCS25 B-grade, the lowest grade they advertised most years.

A nice condition scoped Belgian Superposed in 30-06, engraved by VanCuyck fetched $3700 at auction, for example.

 

[AZDAVE]

Thank you for helping folks here on AH I know that I will look at this thread each week.

 

[sestoppelman]

For the Candians:

Here’s your good deal alert.

Cogswell & Harrison made a fair amount of dangerous game rifles. Many were on P17/P19 actions (yuck) but some were made on 98 Mauser actions. (Glorious)

In fact, my most accurate safari rifle is indeed, a Cogswell & Harrison London made 375HH Mauser. They made a bunch of these in the 1951-1953 era to supply largely to the Parks departments of Africa and held some in reserve to sell to cost conscious customers. They are beautiful, functional safari rifles.

The one at Epps in Canada is in very good condition for the paltry sum of $3995 CAD. The condition looks excellent. It has an upgraded hybrid between file rib “rigby style” rear sight island and a quarter rib, compared to most I have seen that were small islands with a standing and folding sight arrangement. Nice.

For what amounts to $3100 US Dollars, its a heck of a fine gun.

Ellwood Epps Sporting Goods

Online shopping in Canada for hunting supplies, new and used firearms and bows, rare gun parts and obsolete ammunition. A great selection of fishing, camping and shooting supplies in our Orillia stores, north of Barrie, Ontario.

ellwoodepps.com

Did you mean P14 and M1917 actions?

 

[rookhawk]

Did you mean P14 and M1917 actions?

Yes. Sorry about that error. Cogswell & Harrison made a fair amount of p14/p17 404Jeffery rifles. Not pretty. In my opinion, overpriced due to the euphoria over 404J recently. The mauser 98 C&H rifles are higher quality and aesthetically pleasing.

 

[sestoppelman]

I agree, strong but homely actions. Its M1917 however, not P17, no such thing.

 

[CJW]

@MMAL

and some of that stuff was utter garbage even when new. (e.g. salt wood era Belgian brownings?

Do you consider just the salt wood guns junk or guns from that entire era?

 

[rookhawk]

Do you consider just the salt wood guns junk or guns from that entire era?

I’m biased. I hate brownings because its a fictitious label applied to some other manufacturer’s gun. If I wanted a vintage, non-saltwood browning high power “safari grade” rifle I’d just buy an FN for half to a quarter the price. But that’s a bias, not a hard fact.

But to your question specific to the facts of quality, no, there is nothing functionally wrong with a browning from the salt wood era if it isn’t itself rotting away from sitting in a caustic wood stock.

 

[thriller]

I am interested in this thread so I am going to keep watching thanks for the info guys

 

[CJW]

I’m biased. I hate brownings because its a fictitious label applied to some other manufacturer’s gun. If I wanted a vintage, non-saltwood browning high power “safari grade” rifle I’d just buy an FN for half to a quarter the price. But that’s a bias, not a hard fact.

But to your question specific to the facts of quality, no, there is nothing functionally wrong with a browning from the salt wood era if it isn’t itself rotting away from sitting in a caustic wood stock.

I guess I do and don't get where you're coming from. I don't care who puts their name on a rifle as long as it's built with good parts. For example my JC Higgins 30/06. FN action and Hi Standard barrel with a random name on it. Nothing special to look at but high quality.

I'm not sure you would find one of these in an FN for 1/4-1/2 the price. The lawyers did a good job building them. I think it would be ridiculous for a person to look past a nice one.

Edit to add: This is my '62 safari in 458 WM.