Fox NRA / Wayne LaPierre Commentary

[Charles de Ribeau]

Not pretty.

Yes, I agree that Wayne LaPierre must go. How can we make that happen? Don't say elect new directors. We don't know the positions of candidates. So, voting in an NRA election is a bit like playing Pin The Tail on The Donkey.

Over the years similar things have happened at the Wounded Warrior Project, RMEF and probably countless other "non-profits".

If you look at this article, or others like it, you will see that 7 board members have resigned. That's 7 out of 76. Big deal! Wake me up if the number rises to 15 or 20 by Labor Day. Otherwise nothing is going to change.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2019-08-20/more-officials-resign-from-the-nra

There won't be another Members' Meeting (the opportunity to elect new directors) until April 2020. That's plenty of time for LaPierre to shore up his support base among the directors and hold onto power or to negotiate mega-million dollar severance package. #FAIL

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

I don’t think either of the two groups involved want to weaken the NRA, they just want the wasteful spending to stop. So do I, I really don’t have a problem paying high salaries, but do have a problem with Board trips for 60 folks. That size of board is too big. SCI suffers also from too many board members.

And SCI probably suffers from similar corruption on a hopefully smaller scale.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

I feel somewhat qualified to respond to this - like it or not. I am also a Benefactor member of the NRA, as is my wife...

...I hopes this has helped in this discussion.

Denny

Thanks for sharing.

 

[sestoppelman]

The NRA lost me in 1977 and I doubt they'll ever get me back.

If they "lost" you that long ago, you were never a serious member to begin with. Good grief, of all the things to brag about. I reckon we can get along without you as a member.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The NRA lost me in 1977

What happened in 1977?

 

[sierraone]

What happened in 1977?

The big gun issue in the 70s that I remember was that congress was trying to outlaw all Saturday night specials. (revolvers/pistols with 2 inch barrels). Obviously it didn't happen, because they are still around.

 

[CTDolan]

1977 was when the NRA went from being an organization in service to its members to one in service to the manufactures. And that chicken has now come home to roost.

Mark my words, the policies of the last 10+ years (NRA's policies) are going to one day backfire in spectacular fashion, and they'll only have themselves to blame. You cannot have a shooting such as took place at Sandy Hook Elementary, where 21 6-7 year old children were gunned down, alongside 6 adults, and counter with "we need to arm teachers in schools". Do you realize how totally absurd that sounds to about 95% of the population? Trust me, the pendulum will swing the other way, and when it does, it'll swing hard. Why? We've done nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to bring the larger population into the discussion. And they're pissed, massively pissed.

Remember when Sargent Hulka bailed out of the back of the troop transport in Stripes, just before they hit the check point? That's what I did in 1977. I didn't like what I saw and got out.

 

[Red Leg]

1977 was when the NRA went from being an organization in service to its members to one in service to the manufactures. And that chicken has now come home to roost.

Mark my words, the policies of the last 10+ years (NRA's policies) are going to one day backfire in spectacular fashion, and they'll only have themselves to blame. You cannot have a shooting such as took place at Sandy Hook Elementary, where 21 6-7 year old children were gunned down, alongside 6 adults, and counter with "we need to arm teachers in schools". Do you realize how totally absurd that sounds to about 95% of the population? Trust me, the pendulum will swing the other way, and when it does, it'll swing hard. Why? We've done nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to bring the larger population into the discussion. And they're pissed, massively pissed.

Remember when Sargent Hulka bailed out of the back of the troop transport in Stripes, just before they hit the check point? That's what I did in 1977. I didn't like what I saw and got out.

That is a bit of a skewed interpretation of the 1977 Cincinnati NRA convention. Frustrated members who saw an old guard interested in target shooting, Boy Scouts, etc al staged a revolt and elected a leadership group focused on political engagement to protect the 2d amendment and the right to bear arms. Obviously, that did not sit well with the traditionalists. I urge you all to google the event and read the assessments for yourselves.

Having said all that, I am probably not so far removed from @CTDolan as he might think. The old NRA was uninterested in the gun rights debate. My concern with the new NRA is that it has become uncompromising. It should be obvious to anyone that we are on the losing end of a geometric curve. Eventually, the dam will indeed break. If we maintain the position the AR 15 or nothing, eventually it will indeed be nothing. Population dynamics or inexorable.

And that is not to say that the change wasn't needed in '77 or that accomplishments of the "new" organization weren't meaningful - even dramatic. Think where we were with right to carry back in the late seventies.

Now, I would prefer a NRA leadership focused on problem solving, not resistance. It has been forty-years since the last shake up of the organization. We are NOT going to win everything forever. We are one Supreme Court justice away from neutering the 2d Amendment to focus on the militia language. Whether that is historically accurate intent or not will be irrelevant.

I wish I thought Wayne’s problems would ussure in leadership willing to get ahead of the problem. My guess is more and less capable hardliners will follow. But we need to figure out where we want to be in the largely urbanized multi-ethnic America fifty years from now. I’ll be long gone, but my grandchildren will be here. If the end state is the ability to hunt with a firearm, and protect their homes and person that will be a singular achievement. Working collectively toward that end might make sense. If not, a solution will eventually be dictated.

 

[Wheels]

....If the end state is the ability to hunt with a firearm, and protect their homes and person that will be a singular achievement. Working collectively toward that end might make sense. If not, a solution will eventually be dictated.

No truer words.

 

[YancyW]

I feel somewhat qualified to respond to this - like it or not. I am also a Benefactor member of the NRA, as is my wife.

I was a member of the Board of Directors for seven years, resigning only so that I could take an executive position with the NRA as their Director of Competitive Shooting. The NRA came to me and asked me to come work for them. At the time I was 65 years old and told them I would do so but only for 5-7 years because by then I would want to retire. I gave them 5 years and resigned. I have been fully retired now for two years.

First, let's talk about memberships. Wayne once said that the reason the NRA is so powerful is because of our membership.

The more members the NRA has the more influence they can generate. When the NRA wants to speak with a member of Congress they usually can do so. Can you imagine walking the halls of Congress asking to speak with congressmen/women because you are the head of an organization that has 10 members. I doubt that you will get much face-to-face time with anyone.

NRA membership fluctuates wildly and that's the fault of the members, not the NRA. If Hillary Clinton would have been elected, the NRA would be flush with money and membership would have increase by a million members, perhaps more. That's because when the members see that there will be a problem, they step up to the plate and donate money and make sure their membership is up to date.

But Hillary wasn't elected, a pro-gun president was. The members no longer saw that there was a problem since it was unlikely that in the immediate future gun control legislation was going to pass. The members quit donating money and dropped their membership. For some reason being in it for the long haul was not on many members agenda.

This activity takes place every election cycle. If an anti-gunner is elected the NRA gains members and is funded to fight the fight, if a pro-gunner is elected the NRA struggles financially and has less cash to fight the fight.

Want to hurt the NRA, while unintentionally supporting the anti-gun movement, drop your membership (that way the NRA will have less influence) and quit donating to the cause (that way the NRA cannot fund the fight for your guns).

Second, lets talk about those requests for donations.

The NRA is not a guru that can see into the future and tell when you will donate. They are just hoping that you will donate at some point in time. They fully expect that you are not likely in a position to donate every time but just don't know when you will choose to do so. They also fully expect that if you cannot donate, you will simply trash the mail you received. When I was on the Board, each mailing was costing the NRA about $300,000 but the return was about $600,000, so you can see each of those requests is worth making.

I might donate on this month's request but you do not, but you might donate on next month's request while I do not. The NRA might not have received any money from either of us if it had not made two requests.

Don't get mad about the requests for donations, be thankful that somewhere, somebody is donating and helping to support the very same organization that you reportedly support. Just toss the mail and forget about it until it's time to donate.

Wayne has once said that the NRA survives on the $25-$35 donations.

This, let's talk Wayne La Pierre.

Wayne is bargain, financially. He makes far less money than CEOs of for-profit companies. However, Wayne is a believer when it comes to gun rights and fights the fight with a vengeance. Trying to find a replacement that is such a believer might prove to be difficult. Many people will take the job for the money but do they believe?

It's fine if you think he should go or stay but don't kill the organization and lose the fight over who the CEO is. Wayne has served us well in the past and if the Board believes that a new CEO is in order, they will replace him. I will not enter into that fray.

Fourth, the Board of Directors.

The NRA is chartered in the State of New York. This occurred long before New York became anti-gun (New York is trying to destroy the NRA through that charter). This charter requires the NRA to have a Board of Directors and requires them to meet. It also requires that the NRA hold a meeting of the general membership once per year. The NRA complies with these requirements. The Board meets three times per year, twice in Virginia near the NRA HQ, and once at varying locations throughout the USA to hold the General Meeting of the Membership. This meeting is moved around so as to make it easier for NRA members to periodically attend a General Membership Meeting. Not everyone can fly around the country to attend a meeting so the NRA attempts to move the meeting closer to them.

As a result of these required meetings, the Board of Directors incurs costs, for which they are reimbursed, dollar for dollar. They must turn in receipts and a voucher listing all of their expenses. They are not reimbursed for any more than what they were allowed to spend ( yes there is a cap on their authorized expenses).

Board members are NOT paid, they are volunteers, so to speak. They receive no compensation for their time or services but are reimbursed actual costs. Board members also must disclose any conflict of interests each year. They must disclose if they paid the NRA for any services the NRA performed for them or if the NRA paid the Board member for services outside their duties as a Board member.

I hopes this has helped in this discussion.

Denny

I have walked the halls of Congress and many other state legislatures for the past couple decades, I can tell everyone first hand, there isn't a single other gun organization in the country that has a fraction of the influence of the NRA. If you asked every member of Congress what GOA stands for, 90% of them would think you are talking about a city in India.

I get that many people don't like certain aspects, but the only org standing between you and the gutting of the 2nd Amendment is the NRA.

 

[YancyW]

That is a bit of a skewed interpretation of the 1977 Cincinnati NRA convention. Frustrated members who saw an old guard interested in target shooting, Boy Scouts, etc al staged a revolt and elected a leadership group focused on political engagement to protect the 2d amendment and the right to bear arms. Obviously, that did not sit well with the traditionalists. I urge you all to google the event and read the assessments for yourselves.

Having said all that, I am probably not so far removed from @CTDolan as he might think. The old NRA was uninterested in the gun rights debate. My concern with the new NRA is that it has become uncompromising. It should be obvious to anyone that we are on the losing end of a geometric curve. Eventually, the dam will indeed break. If we maintain the position the AR 15 or nothing, eventually it will indeed be nothing. Population dynamics or inexorable.

And that is not to say that the change wasn't needed in '77 or that accomplishments of the "new" organization weren't meaningful - even dramatic. Think where we were with right to carry back in the late seventies.

Now, I would prefer a NRA leadership focused on problem solving, not resistance. It has been forty-years since the last shake up of the organization. We are NOT going to win everything forever. We are one Supreme Court justice away from neutering the 2d Amendment to focus on the militia language. Whether that is historically accurate intent or not will be irrelevant.

I wish I thought Wayne’s problems would ussure in leadership willing to get ahead of the problem. My guess is more and less capable hardliners will follow. But we need to figure out where we want to be in the largely urbanized multi-ethnic America fifty years from now. I’ll be long gone, but my grandchildren will be here. If the end state is the ability to hunt with a firearm, and protect their homes and person that will be a singular achievement. Working collectively toward that end might make sense. If not, a solution will eventually be dictated.

The flip side is we are only one, maybe not even one, justice away from having a court that will clearly state strict scrutiny applies to the 2nd amendment.

 

[IdaRam]

I feel somewhat qualified to respond to this - like it or not. I am also a Benefactor member of the NRA, as is my wife.

I was a member of the Board of Directors for seven years, resigning only so that I could take an executive position with the NRA as their Director of Competitive Shooting. The NRA came to me and asked me to come work for them. At the time I was 65 years old and told them I would do so but only for 5-7 years because by then I would want to retire. I gave them 5 years and resigned. I have been fully retired now for two years.

First, let's talk about memberships. Wayne once said that the reason the NRA is so powerful is because of our membership.

The more members the NRA has the more influence they can generate. When the NRA wants to speak with a member of Congress they usually can do so. Can you imagine walking the halls of Congress asking to speak with congressmen/women because you are the head of an organization that has 10 members. I doubt that you will get much face-to-face time with anyone.

NRA membership fluctuates wildly and that's the fault of the members, not the NRA. If Hillary Clinton would have been elected, the NRA would be flush with money and membership would have increase by a million members, perhaps more. That's because when the members see that there will be a problem, they step up to the plate and donate money and make sure their membership is up to date.

But Hillary wasn't elected, a pro-gun president was. The members no longer saw that there was a problem since it was unlikely that in the immediate future gun control legislation was going to pass. The members quit donating money and dropped their membership. For some reason being in it for the long haul was not on many members agenda.

This activity takes place every election cycle. If an anti-gunner is elected the NRA gains members and is funded to fight the fight, if a pro-gunner is elected the NRA struggles financially and has less cash to fight the fight.

Want to hurt the NRA, while unintentionally supporting the anti-gun movement, drop your membership (that way the NRA will have less influence) and quit donating to the cause (that way the NRA cannot fund the fight for your guns).

Second, lets talk about those requests for donations.

The NRA is not a guru that can see into the future and tell when you will donate. They are just hoping that you will donate at some point in time. They fully expect that you are not likely in a position to donate every time but just don't know when you will choose to do so. They also fully expect that if you cannot donate, you will simply trash the mail you received. When I was on the Board, each mailing was costing the NRA about $300,000 but the return was about $600,000, so you can see each of those requests is worth making.

I might donate on this month's request but you do not, but you might donate on next month's request while I do not. The NRA might not have received any money from either of us if it had not made two requests.

Don't get mad about the requests for donations, be thankful that somewhere, somebody is donating and helping to support the very same organization that you reportedly support. Just toss the mail and forget about it until it's time to donate.

Wayne has once said that the NRA survives on the $25-$35 donations.

This, let's talk Wayne La Pierre.

Wayne is bargain, financially. He makes far less money than CEOs of for-profit companies. However, Wayne is a believer when it comes to gun rights and fights the fight with a vengeance. Trying to find a replacement that is such a believer might prove to be difficult. Many people will take the job for the money but do they believe?

It's fine if you think he should go or stay but don't kill the organization and lose the fight over who the CEO is. Wayne has served us well in the past and if the Board believes that a new CEO is in order, they will replace him. I will not enter into that fray.

Fourth, the Board of Directors.

The NRA is chartered in the State of New York. This occurred long before New York became anti-gun (New York is trying to destroy the NRA through that charter). This charter requires the NRA to have a Board of Directors and requires them to meet. It also requires that the NRA hold a meeting of the general membership once per year. The NRA complies with these requirements. The Board meets three times per year, twice in Virginia near the NRA HQ, and once at varying locations throughout the USA to hold the General Meeting of the Membership. This meeting is moved around so as to make it easier for NRA members to periodically attend a General Membership Meeting. Not everyone can fly around the country to attend a meeting so the NRA attempts to move the meeting closer to them.

As a result of these required meetings, the Board of Directors incurs costs, for which they are reimbursed, dollar for dollar. They must turn in receipts and a voucher listing all of their expenses. They are not reimbursed for any more than what they were allowed to spend ( yes there is a cap on their authorized expenses).

Board members are NOT paid, they are volunteers, so to speak. They receive no compensation for their time or services but are reimbursed actual costs. Board members also must disclose any conflict of interests each year. They must disclose if they paid the NRA for any services the NRA performed for them or if the NRA paid the Board member for services outside their duties as a Board member.

I hopes this has helped in this discussion.

Denny

Denny, welcome to AH and thank you for taking time to share this information and for your insight. I hope we will continue to see you on this forum.
Additionally, thank you for your service to the NRA and its members. It is appreciated.

 

[IdaRam]

One sad and inescapable reality remains, regardless of details, fact or fiction. By and large the body of membership feels that a sacred trust has been broken. At a time when strength and unity within the leadership of the NRA is vital, scandal has broken out. The members have been let down. As a Life Member, I know my expectations certainly have not been met. Without change, immediate and meaningful change, I fear the organization will be perpetually diminished. Members will be demoralized. Demoralized members don’t make contributions.
While I do believe WLP bears a significant portion of the responsibility here, I don’t believe he bears sole responsibility. I believe Wayne’s departure would be best for the organization, but as has been pointed out already, he is not autonomous. He answers to the Board. Where has the Board of Directors been, and do they believe the decisions made, actions taken, and behavior or misbehavior as it may be are acceptable to the membership? I believe the Board has some answering to do as well.
People and Organizations make mistakes. Perfection is not a realistic expectation. Excellence is. Conduct beyond reproach is. Especially for people who are in the spotlight.
What defines any organization is how they acknowledge and then address and correct their mistakes. This is where the character of an individual or organization is demonstrated. I sincerely hope the NRA exhibits character in keeping with the standards of the bulk of its members.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Wayne and The Donald talked background checks yesterday..........

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...call-with-the-president/ar-AAG5cjR?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[sestoppelman]

Yes, they did. Trump now says we already have good background check laws.

It sounds like some are "ready" for compromise on semi autos. I am not. Compromise with the leftards gets us more of the same, bad things.

I didn't really have a problem with banning bump stocks and on another forum was roundly shredded for that thinking. As it turns out the wording of the decision is such that almost anything could turn a semi into a fully automatic gun, and that's not a good thing. Time will tell what comes of it.

You cannot please everyone in any large organization, not possible I think the fact that Trump called WLP yesterday is testament enough to the continued clout of the NRA and WLP. The President of the NRA in this months magazine gives her full support to WLP. We should stand with the NRA and stop being a bunch of whining malcontents and running away sniveling because they ask for money. YMMV

 

[YancyW]

Yes, they did. Trump now says we already have good background check laws.

It sounds like some are "ready" for compromise on semi autos. I am not. Compromise with the leftards gets us more of the same, bad things.

I didn't really have a problem with banning bump stocks and on another forum was roundly shredded for that thinking. As it turns out the wording of the decision is such that almost anything could turn a semi into a fully automatic gun, and that's not a good thing. Time will tell what comes of it.

You cannot please everyone in any large organization, not possible I think the fact that Trump called WLP yesterday is testament enough to the continued clout of the NRA and WLP. The President of the NRA in this months magazine gives her full support to WLP. We should stand with the NRA and stop being a bunch of whining malcontents and running away sniveling because they ask for money. YMMV

We are all on their menu, trying to talk them into eating someone else first is not a strategy I want to count on.

 

[Dennis L]

Note that I did not say anywhere in my post that there weren't problems. I even said that I wouldn't enter into that fray here. I still have many friends who remain on the Board.

If you are a member and receive a magazine, somewhere in the back you will find a list of the Board members and the state they reside in. In the September issue of The American Rifleman the list is on page 87. As I recall, once each year Board members' personal addresses, or at least a place where they can receive mail, is posted.

You can also write to each of these Board members by addressing correspondence to that Board member, plus:

c/o NRA Office of the Secretary
11250 Waples Mill Rd.
Fairfax, VA 22030

Or email:

nrabod@nrahq.org.

You must include your name, contact information, and NRA membership number as only communications from NRA members will be accepted and forwarded.

The Board will be much more responsive to your requests than congressional politicians. Please do not hesitate to contact them.

 

[CoElkHunter]

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6074244037001/#sp=show-clips

Not pretty.

WOW! And I’m a Life Member!

 

[MikeNC]

I am an NRA Life Member, and I have been since I was in HighSchool. I use to go to all the local events and have tons of stuff with the NRA logo on it. I got sick of all the calls and mailings wanting more money. I believe in the 2nd, but something needs to change at the NRA it seems

 

[Newboomer]

I am a life member and have been for several decades. I've seen the NRA through several ups and downs and we always bounce back up. When I was in the military, the first thing we were told when we went to a new duty station was to "train your replacement". The logic being no one is indispensable and we serve for a protracted term. The same holds true in any organization. La Pierre has served his term and it is time for new blood and a fresh outlook. I believe there are members on the board who are fully qualified to take the reins and carry on.
It might be time for the board to scrutinize the makeup of the organization and explore set terms for all executives. This would prevent one person from becoming too entrenched and powerful. A different perspective occasionally is a good thing.