Flat nose or round nose?

[bruce moulds]

I think the round nose (solid) will penetrate further.
it certainly has less drag in air, bit this might be irrelevant in flesh and bone.
however the round nose might exhibit a greater tendancy to deflect if it hits something angular.
then all bets are off, unless you bet on the flatter meplat.
with softs, I used to despize the semi spitzer compared to the spitzer for hunting.
having found them to be way better killers I now prefer the semi spitzer.
and the ones I avoid the most are plastic points due to their terminal unpredictability.
bruce.

 

[baxterb]

A flat nose solid will penetrate in a straighter line and deeper than a round nose. The CEB solids above were mostly designed by a guy I know and I spent a few happy hours at his house testing them to a ridiculous degree.

There is no question that a round nose bullet has killed and will kill effectively - but in all the shots I've seen with my own two eyes, no RN bullet out penetrated or shot in a straighter line that the 33% meplat bullets seen above.

Whether any of that 'matters' is irrelevant - it just is what it is.

 

[Red Leg]

where did the round nose come from?
we need to look at ballistic developments as an evolution.
up until a point in this evolution, all bullets were cast or swaged lead/lead alloy with no jackets, propelled by black powder.
while black powder is less energy than smokeless, it has a very sudden pressure curve, causing alloy bullets to bump up on firing.
this allowed the use of bore diameter bullets, as they bumped into the rifling.
with black powder fouling, undersized bullets were used in repeaters, as they could be chambered in fouled barrels, yet bump up to fit the barrel, clean or dirty.
when bullets bump up, the process also goes into the nose, causing it to set back, and if too long and/or soft, to bend as well.
not good for accuracy.
it was found that alloy bullets could work with noses up to around 1.5 calibres long.
long range bullets used this to achieve the highest b.c. possible for the technology.
the americans used elliptical noses, and the brits used the metford nose, now referred to as the money nose.
for short range rounds like the 44/40, a flat nose was as ballistically useful as an elliptical.
mid range cartridges like the 40/70 used longer ogives with a flat meplat.
when smokeless powder came along, they needed jackets to assist with the higher pressures.
so they just used the known bullet shapes with added jackets.
think 30/03, 30/40, 303 mk6, 7x57 early, etc.
not sure where the spitzer started, but it revolutionized military ammo,
the 8mm lebel certainly took it to yet another level being the first boat tail.
the old round noses with jackets were primarily used in hunting rifles with iron sights, meaning there was little incentive to look for longer range noses.
within the range envelope of iron hunting sights they just worked well.
bruce.

The round nose concept really took off with the creation of hollow based conical bullet by the French military officer Claude Minie in 1849. It was slightly sub-caliber which allowed it to be quickly loaded in muzzle loading military rifles. It allowed extremely accurate fires out 300 meters or so and a reload as quick as any smoothbore musket. Both Federal and Southern troops used them to great effect in their Springfields and Enfields during the war. The long range capability was so obvious on the battlefield, that conicals of one form or another were essentially universally adopted. As calibers were gradually decreased in the later third of the 19th century, the “round nose” design was used in both sporting and military arms. Smokeless powder ushered in the opportunity for higher velocities, and soon military and civilian arms were employing spritzers of one form another. Magazine designs, or specific game (i.e. Africa) demanded variation on that theme. It is an evolution that is still in progress.

 

[bruce moulds]

at about the same time in America, the picket bullet was being used.
many bullets are now called picket, but the one I refer to is a bullet which is mostly ogive with little or no shank.
these bullets were one of the first attempts to better the ballistics of a round ball in muzzle loaders.
they were very tight in the bore and needed a short starter to load.
the problem with them was that they were hard to keep straight on the bore on loading due to lack of shank.
they would have had a shank after firing, due to the base bumping up.
of course they were little use militarily due to slowness of loading, so the minie was a clear winner.
pickets were primarily used in 40 rod comps, and for military sniping out to the range of smooth bore artillery.
bruce.

 

[baxterb]

A flat nose solid will penetrate in a straighter line and deeper than a round nose. The CEB solids above were mostly designed by a guy I know and I spent a few happy hours at his house testing them to a ridiculous degree.

There is no question that a round nose bullet has killed and will kill effectively - but in all the shots I've seen with my own two eyes, no RN bullet out penetrated or shot in a straighter line that the 33% meplat bullets seen above.

Whether any of that 'matters' is irrelevant - it just is what it is.

Sorry, they are 67% meplat. That was the sweet spot between straight line and maximum penetration. One test we did was shoot through a pressure treated 4x4 then a trap set back about 4 feet. We lined up the rifle on the bullseye on the trap, then stood the 4x4 between the rifle and trap. The damn CEB went through the 4x4 and hit exactly where we were aiming and penetrated like 4 feet into the medium. It was pretty amazing. We didn’t believe it and did it again - same result. Fun stuff.