Finally getting a shot at an elephant with a bow!!

"an elephant takes about three hours to bleed to death and is dead from an arrow, provided it is well seated".

according to my Matabele trackers in Gway. They probably know more about (bow)hunting elephants than all of us put together.

mrpoindexter-would you like to die like this...............?
Without the heavy rifle of an experienced PH, you would wet your pants.
If you kill an animal it has to be done quickly, at least there has to be an intention behind it.
Now you can crucify me for that statement.
Foxi
 
Well, as for the “you would wet your pants” you can keep the personal insults to yourself. If that is the way you want to engage me, you can take your opinions and you will know what I think you can do with them.

Three hours to bleed to death with an arrow through their heart? I think your trackers in Gway need to learn how to read their watches, if they have them.

If you had much experience with archery hunting, you would realize that bleeding to death is not exactly a painful way to go and if it takes 3 hours, even for an elephant, you have not hit the heart.

I actually have hunted dangerous game (not in Africa) without firearm protection. Don’t project your insecurities onto me and have some class and respect when you talk to people.
 
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I'm a bow hunter but have never hunted any dangerous game with pointy sticks.
I find the very idea daunting and I'm impressed you're going for it.

When I first started, I was overly cautious and hesitant hunting with a bow. Yes, there are higher risks (my opinion) of wounding an animal than with a firearm, but with experience I found I was making it more of a concern than it has to be.
Proper training, practice, and patience all pay off.
You really, really have to earn the hunt with a bow.

Very much looking forward to hearing how this hunt goes.

I'm especially interested in any prep, discussion of shooting angles, penetration expectations, choice of camo, and scent management that you're willing to share.
 
Best of luck, looking forward to hunt report, video,pictures. Enjoy every second you are there. I remember reading about Howard Hill and Fred Bear taking elephant when I was a young boy.
 
Well, as for the “you would wet your pants” you can keep the personal insults to yourself. If that is the way you want to engage me, you can take your opinions and you will know what I think you can do with them.

Three hours to bleed to death with an arrow through their heart? I think your trackers in Gway need to learn how to read their watches, if they have them.

If you had much experience with archery hunting, you would realize that bleeding to death is not exactly a painful way to go and if it takes 3 hours, even for an elephant, you have not hit the heart.

I actually have hunted dangerous game (not in Africa) without firearm protection. Don’t project your insecurities onto me and have some fucking class and respect when you talk to people.
@mrpoindexter — Why? WHY did you “Take the Bait”?? You seem to know what you’re doing and know what to expect….ignore the obvious taunts and enjoy your Hunt
 
Well Hank, I expect better from hunters here. Opinions like "how would you like to die?" are rarely answered with "being killed by a hunter" so we can use that argument to shut down hunting all together. Also, I expect hunters to be better educated than to believe that a heart shot animal takes 3 hours to bleed to death. It is precisely these uneducated people that give an opinion that restricts bow hunting and is in part the reason they don't allow hunting elephants, hippos, rhinos and crocs in South Africa, or Namibia and now Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique have closed those off to us as well. And Foxi, coming from Germany, has his mentality as part of the collective mindset in his country that has made bow hunting illegal there for all game.

For the rifle hunters who don't understand how that bothers a bow hunter, perhaps they would understand if they were to go on a buffalo hunt and were told that they could choose the buffalo they want and then only their PH is allowed to shoot if for him and see how satisfying of a hunt they would consider that.

We need to stand up for all hunters rights to hunt, not just our own preference on how to hunt to the exclusion of others because we will always find temporary allies with the greenies to pare down the allowable hunting, but we won't find them on our side to open up hunting anywhere on anything.

Would Foxi be fine if we banned all rifle hunting shots except for head shots? I doubt it, but that is the logical next step in his statement. He told me I could crucify him for his statement and I did.

I don't tell people what kind of bullets to use because I would be out of my depth on such a conversation and he obviously knows fuck all about archery and the lethality of arrows. I have 3 Cape buffaloes down, every single one a single arrow affair with none running more than 60 yards before expiring within a minute and two of them not even giving a death bellow. On the flip side, one of my best friends has 4 Capes down with his rifle and not one was less than 3 bullets to die. If those seven hunts were the only sampling we used, one could say guns were far less humane. Since Zim parks hasn't given out bow permits on elephants in a decade, I doubt the game trackers in Guay have even that large of a sample size for elephants hunted with a bow. I have consistently found rifle hunters who don't bow hunt seriously underestimate the lethality of an arrow.
 
Good luck on your hunt! Can't wait for the report.
 
Well Hank, I expect better from hunters here. Opinions like "how would you like to die?" are rarely answered with "being killed by a hunter" so we can use that argument to shut down hunting all together. Also, I expect hunters to be better educated than to believe that a heart shot animal takes 3 hours to bleed to death. It is precisely these uneducated people that give an opinion that restricts bow hunting and is in part the reason they don't allow hunting elephants, hippos, rhinos and crocs in South Africa, or Namibia and now Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique have closed those off to us as well. And Foxi, coming from Germany, has his mentality as part of the collective mindset in his country that has made bow hunting illegal there for all game.

For the rifle hunters who don't understand how that bothers a bow hunter, perhaps they would understand if they were to go on a buffalo hunt and were told that they could choose the buffalo they want and then only their PH is allowed to shoot if for him and see how satisfying of a hunt they would consider that.

We need to stand up for all hunters rights to hunt, not just our own preference on how to hunt to the exclusion of others because we will always find temporary allies with the greenies to pare down the allowable hunting, but we won't find them on our side to open up hunting anywhere on anything.

Would Foxi be fine if we banned all rifle hunting shots except for head shots? I doubt it, but that is the logical next step in his statement. He told me I could crucify him for his statement and I did.

I don't tell people what kind of bullets to use because I would be out of my depth on such a conversation and he obviously knows fuck all about archery and the lethality of arrows. I have 3 Cape buffaloes down, every single one a single arrow affair with none running more than 60 yards before expiring within a minute and two of them not even giving a death bellow. On the flip side, one of my best friends has 4 Capes down with his rifle and not one was less than 3 bullets to die. If those seven hunts were the only sampling we used, one could say guns were far less humane. Since Zim parks hasn't given out bow permits on elephants in a decade, I doubt the game trackers in Guay have even that large of a sample size for elephants hunted with a bow. I have consistently found rifle hunters who don't bow hunt seriously underestimate the lethality of an arrow.
@mrpoindexter - I bow hunt & rifle hunt but I also appreciate the views of hunters that don’t care for one or the other and that’s their “opinion”….You care too much about what others think, if you’re comfortable with your decisions and reasoning (and are within the Law) that’s all that matters. I would Not rely on AH or any “Forum” to validate the type of hunting you enjoy as you seem to be experienced enough to make those decisions on your own. I look forward to your recap & hunt report on Elephant with a Bow and while it will not affect my opinion on using a bow to hunt elephant (for or against) —- I know it will be interesting and I will likely learn something from it. Have a good hunt, good luck, be safe. HankBuck
 
Thanks Hank. It isn't that I care about others opinions, but I do care when their opinion shapes laws regarding how I can hunt. I don't need anybody to validate anything of mine other than my parking permit.

I am wheels up in 6 weeks. I think the only gear I need to get still is a portable StarLink system as they don't have it in camp yet but Zambia does offer StarLink. And I still need to lose some more weight. Gained a pound and a half in bear camp (Alberta) this weekend on a last second hunt opening. Looking to shed another 12.6 lbs.
 
Thanks Hank. It isn't that I care about others opinions, but I do care when their opinion shapes laws regarding how I can hunt. I don't need anybody to validate anything of mine other than my parking permit.

I am wheels up in 6 weeks. I think the only gear I need to get still is a portable StarLink system as they don't have it in camp yet but Zambia does offer StarLink. And I still need to lose some more weight. Gained a pound and a half in bear camp (Alberta) this weekend on a last second hunt opening. Looking to shed another 12.6 lbs.
@mrpoindexter - I can understand gaining weight in “Bear Camp” as the ones that I’ve been to there is nothing much to do but EAT, sleep late, and then hunt sitting in a tree stand from 4pm til dark….not a lot of effort but most productive way to hunt in most parts of the Northeast. You must hunt with extreme “precision” if you need to lose 12.6 lbs !! What happens if you lose 11 lbs or 13 lbs — is the Hunt CANCELED?
 
I told my guide to get me out sooner because I cannot shoot a bear from camp and if I sit somewhere, it might as well be in the woods. Ground blind though and I had a black bear snuck up on me. I didn’t hear him until he was 15 feet away from me from directly behind. Shooed him away but he would not stay away and he eventually “found out.”

If I don’t lose exactly 12.6 pounds, I will just have to resight my bow, lol.
 
"an elephant takes about three hours to bleed to death and is dead from an arrow, provided it is well seated".

according to my Matabele trackers in Gway. They probably know more about (bow)hunting elephants than all of us put together.

mrpoindexter-would you like to die like this...............?
Without the heavy rifle of an experienced PH, you would wet your pants.
If you kill an animal it has to be done quickly, at least there has to be an intention behind it.
Now you can crucify me for that statement.
Foxi
You are absolutely missing how archery works to kill. Rapid organ failure happens rather quickly with a good shot. Both lungs can collapse and breathing impossible. A heart, or aorta shot will cause rapid blood pressure drop and passing out very quickly.


Sure a bad shot into the muscle or non vital area or gut can take a while to bleed out but so does a bad rifle shot.

An NO, not a chance a tracker knows much about modern compound archery equipment (even in the last few years) and it’s much increased efficiency.

Sure old self bows and hand forged broadheads and poor marksmanship lead to many wounded elephant trails for them probably in poaching days over the years but that is Not what we are talking about here.

If you want to talk with someone with REAL modern experience with bowhunting elephants talk to Strang Middleton in Zambia.
 
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One point of clarification though. I am told an elephants lungs cannot collapse as they attach differently due to their size and the way their anatomy has adapted because of it.
 
You are absolutely missing how archery works to kill. Rapid organ failure happens rather quickly with a good shot. Both lungs can collapse and breathing impossible. A heart, or aorta shot will cause rapid blood pressure drop and passing out very quickly.


Sure a bad shot into the muscle or non vital area or gut can take a while to bleed out but so does a bad rifle shot.

An NO, not a chance a tracker knows much about modern compound archery equipment (even in the last few years) and it’s much increased efficiency.

Sure old self bows and hand forged broadheads and poor marksmanship lead to many wounded elephant trails for them probably in poaching days over the years but that is Not what we are talking about here.

If you want to talk with someone with REAL modern experience with bowhunting elephants talk to Strang Middleton in Zambia.
@wildwilderness - I agree with your point that a properly placed broadhead is lethal on any animal assuming it hits near center Heart-Lung-Liver. How much time it takes would or should depend on the Size of the Animal. I’m just guessing but here is my thinking & assumptions: Deer=200 lbs=6 quarts blood and broadhead 1 1/2 wide. Assuming 1/3 of blood must be lost before animal collapses (2 quarts) and that blood drains out thru a 1 1/2 tri cut hole thru ONE Lung….lets assume 2 minutes (bleeding 1 qt per minute) to collapse. Now, Bull Elephant= 16,000 lbs (80 times size of Deer)= 480 quarts Blood (1/3 loss to collapse =160 qts). If the blood is bleeding out of the same size 1 1/2” hole and the rate is a similar 1 quart per minute = 160 minutes (2 hrs 40 minutes?). Obviously my theory & math is almost a joke, no study done and just a rough guess. But, my point (it’s hidden somewhere) is that No matter how advanced the archery is - the broadhead cutting width is about the same as used on a deer - the “hole” will be the “same size cut” as into a deer BUT the amount of blood Loss needed to kill the animal is 80 times that of a deer….it’s got to take much longer - at least on a Lung shot - for the extra 78 quarts of blood to drain out thru the same size (1 1/2”) hole. Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour+ the same arrow placement on an Elephant will take longer to kill that animal than a Deer. I would be interested in those that killed an Elephant with a Lung shot and NOTHING else (No back up shots from PH rifle, No 2nd-3rd arrows etc…. How long for the Elephant to Drop?
 
Remember the Heart and vessels are in scale to each species. So it should bleed out at the same rate as another other creature. If an elephant had the heart and artery size as a whitetail it would take a long time.

And elephants heart rate is slow. But blood pressure is very high.
 
I personally have not shot or seen an elephant bow shot (yet :) but have spoken to PH that has.

Here is a video but doesn’t say how long they waited-

 
Remember the Heart and vessels are in scale to each species. So it should bleed out at the same rate as another other creature. If an elephant had the heart and artery size as a whitetail it would take a long time.

And elephants heart rate is slow. But blood pressure is very high.
@Altitude sickness - I understand your point, regardless of heart & vessels size “scale” - Yes an Elephants are much larger but the HOLE made by an arrow will always be the same size hole ——whether thru a deer lung or elephant lung
 
Hank, I think the point is that the broadhead size may not change, but the size of the heart and arteries changing will maximize the potential opening. For example, you are not going to get a 1.25" hole in a deer aorta because it isn't that big. It also will have lower blood pressure due to the size of the animal. If we want to compare against another animal though, why the hell compare against a deer when we can compare against a Cape buffalo or a giraffe? A giraffe weighs about 1/6 the mass of an elephant and is going to have a similar size heart and lungs that should scale with the elephant lungs. I figure 5x the time for a giraffe for an elephant. It certainly doesn't take a giraffe 30 minutes to expire - I don't recall how long it took my last giraffe to expire, but it wasn't long and it was a broadside shot on just the lungs - it was wobbling within a minute or so. A buffalo at 1/6 or 1/7 the mass of an elephant and they flat out die in under a minute with a well placed arrow.

Taking a 200 lbs animal as an example instead of a 2,000 pound animal just takes the margin of error on these estimates and multiplies it by a factor of 10.
 
Here is a heart shot on a giraffe. As close to the same size heart as an elephant we will find, I believe. This was not a collapsed lung as it was a frontal shot so only hitting the heart. If the giraffe is down in 8 seconds, a similarly shot elephant will NOT be up for 3 hours.

 

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Back After a Long Time – Hello Again!


Hi everyone,


I’ve been a member since 2015 but haven’t been active since 2017. Life got busy, especially with building my second business. Still, I’ve kept my passion for hunting and followed things from afar. Now that I have more time, I’m excited to reconnect, contribute, and be part of the community again.


All the best,
ANDY
aquinn wrote on Raptor59's profile.
I'd like a bag of 100. I could actually pick it up since I'm in North Irving, but if you prefer, shipping it is fine.
 
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