Fell in love with a working girl

[Berettaco]

That’s a beauty! Congrats and hope you take her into the field often

 

[frog stealer]

Gotta love those old British doubles! One of the finest 577 NE guns I've ever had the pleasure of shooting was an old Army Navy double.

I shot the same rifle at the same venue, and Matt isn’t lying, that Army/Navy was a sweet shooter. Owned by some sort of doctor I believe. Anyway, very nice rifle indeed, the only Army/Navy I’ve ever owned was a .250 rook rifle, it was a fine piece of history.

Jake, I think it’s about time we shoot some pigs, even if you don’t have your 577 yet!

 

[Sika98k]

Yowza ! You fell on your feet the right way up finding that piece. Congratulations, a lovely double.

 

[redriverjake]

Congratulations on a beautiful rifle!

A vintage pre-war British double is near the top on my gun bucket list. Until then the modern production Merkel and Chapuis will have to hold me over

I appreciate it. I'd say as long as you wait for the right rifle you won't regret it, there is nothing like the feel of this old world craftsmanship .

 

[redriverjake]

ANCSL records are held at the University of Glasgow. For about 100 GBP a volunteer will pull your build sheet and ledger details for your gun.

Thank you for the information. I'll get in touch with them asap. I'm really keen to fund out as much as I can about this rifle.

 

[redriverjake]

I shot the same rifle at the same venue, and Matt isn’t lying, that Army/Navy was a sweet shooter. Owned by some sort of doctor I believe. Anyway, very nice rifle indeed, the only Army/Navy I’ve ever owned was a .250 rook rifle, it was a fine piece of history.

Jake, I think it’s about time we shoot some pigs, even if you don’t have your 577 yet!

I think you're right, my friend. Congratulations again on your new rifle. She's a beauty.

 

[redriverjake]

Yowza ! You fell on your feet the right way up finding that piece. Congratulations, a lovely double.

Thank you, sir. I'm sure glad to have her.

 

[redriverjake]

That’s a beauty! Congrats and hope you take her into the field often

Thank you. Rest assured that she will see plenty of action.

 

[AZDAVE]

All Army Navy guns I have ever seen are well made working man's rifles. I really like the fiddle back in the stock on your double. Enjoy it and look forward to reading the first hunt report where you get her back into the bush.

 

[redriverjake]

All Army Navy guns I have ever seen are well made working man's rifles. I really like the fiddle back in the stock on your double. Enjoy it and look forward to reading the first hunt report where you get her back into the bush.

Yes sir, I will most definitely do that.

 

[redriverjake]

I started trying to do a little research on the rifle myself as I wait to hear back from Glasgow. The only information I've been able to aquire thus far is that the serial numbers seem to indicate that the rifle was made sometime between 1901-1911. Another curious thing is that it seems to to have both London and Birmingham proof house stamps on it. Can anyone here decipher these better than I can ?

 

[Rare Breed]

Thank you for the information. I'll get in touch with them asap. I'm really keen to fund out as much as I can about this rifle.

@rookhawk is our rifle expert…no one knows guns like he does!!!

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk is our rifle expert…no one knows guns like he does!!!

@Red Leg knows as much about English guns as I do, and 10x more about Austrian-German guns.

But thanks for the compliment. It takes a village, there are so many unique aspects to rifles and shotguns. Winchesters are a specialty all their own. So too are Italian guns. So too are Belgian/French. Scottish Also.

 

[rookhawk]

I started trying to do a little research on the rifle myself as I wait to hear back from Glasgow. The only information I've been able to aquire thus far is that the serial numbers seem to indicate that the rifle was made sometime between 1901-1911. Another curious thing is that it seems to to have both London and Birmingham proof house stamps on it. Can anyone here decipher these better than I can ?

The gun was proofed a 2nd time in Birmingham in 1989. That’s no big deal potentially, but it points to a repair, restoration, or other activity occurring that necessitated that reproof.

If it was a 450 or 500 NE, I’d start getting worried about now. Most often that means it was a black powder express gun that was proofed for Nitro which is not a good thing. Fortunate for you, we can rule that out because 470NE never had a black powder alternative cartridge.

I don’t see any signs of London proofs on the gun that stick out to me from memory, and I’m on holiday so I can’t double check with my books. It looks to me that it was original Birmingham proofed when new (correct for an ANCSL gun likely made by Webley)

 

[rookhawk]

All Army Navy guns I have ever seen are well made working man's rifles. I really like the fiddle back in the stock on your double. Enjoy it and look forward to reading the first hunt report where you get her back into the bush.

There are best grade ANCSL guns out there as well. It was effectively a buying group designed for the benefit of the British Armed Services akin to the PX at an American military base. If a general or admiral wanted a best grade Holland/Purdey/Boss type of gun, ANCSL may have had a wholesale relationship with one or more of the best makers that allowed the officer to get a better value on the gun than a member of the general public.

We cannot assume ANCSL automatically meant “field grade”, there are wonderful exceptions and most of them are “mid-grade” or better.

 

[Red Leg]

The late 80's era reproof is perplexing to me as well. Can you provide a photo of the chamber/barrel face? Sleeving is the predominant means of restoring ruined rifle and shotgun barrels today. But, they can also be fully relined. This is a more exact effort on the part of the gunmaker but was probably the most common method in the eighties and nineties. A huge advantage is that the reline is essentially invisible, but if done in the UK, requires a reproof. If that is the case here, that essentially means you have an thirty-year-old early twentieth century rifle.

@rookhawk is exactly correct. ANCSL guns were made in all grades. Like the regular market, the majority were made in plainer grades. There were, after all, far more lieutenants and captains than Colonels and Generals.

 

[MS 9x56]

She still cuts a fine figure. Let us know how she shoots.

 

[rookhawk]

The late 80's era reproof is perplexing to me as well. Can you provide a photo of the chamber/barrel face? Sleeving is the predominant means of restoring ruined rifle and shotgun barrels today. But, they can also be fully relined. This is a more exact effort on the part of the gunmaker but was probably the most common method in the eighties and nineties. A huge advantage is that the reline is essentially invisible, but if done in the UK, requires a reproof. If that is the case here, that essentially means you have an thirty-year-old early twentieth century rifle.

@rookhawk is exactly correct. ANCSL guns were made in all grades. Like the regular market, the majority were made in plainer grades. There were, after all, far more lieutenants and captains than Colonels and Generals.

If I had to purely speculate on what happened with the gun, I would suggest that the gun exhibited wear or damage and was a 26” or 28” gun. Cut back the barrels, move the front sight, re-regulate, thus equals reproof.

25” is an atypical barrel length for the original time period the gun was made. It is a desirable barrel length with today’s modern powders.

While anything is possible, I don’t think a chamber sleeve or a full length barrel sleeve is likely with such a high pressure caliber.

The ledger will ultimately tell the story when he gets it from University of Glasgow. Was it always a 470NE, but originally with 26” or 28” barrels? Or was it a smaller caliber such as 450NE or 450-400 that was re-bored? TBD, but I’d wager it was restocked and the barrels were cut down in 1989. I have no issue with either of those things, its a nice British gun.

In fact, it’s generally so clean and subdued, I’d be tempted to do a full restore Of the action with some modern engraving, CCH, and a reblack of the barrels. It’s a gun that would probably endure 100% restoration, and nothing would touch its equal for <$25,000 on the secondary market.

 

[redriverjake]

The late 80's era reproof is perplexing to me as well. Can you provide a photo of the chamber/barrel face? Sleeving is the predominant means of restoring ruined rifle and shotgun barrels today. But, they can also be fully relined. This is a more exact effort on the part of the gunmaker but was probably the most common method in the eighties and nineties. A huge advantage is that the reline is essentially invisible, but if done in the UK, requires a reproof. If that is the case here, that essentially means you have an thirty-year-old early twentieth century rifle.

@rookhawk is exactly correct. ANCSL guns were made in all grades. Like the regular market, the majority were made in plainer grades. There were, after all, far more lieutenants and captains than Colonels and Generals.

Yes sir, I'll take those photos when I get home. I sure do appreciate your reply.

 

[redriverjake]

She still cuts a fine figure. Let us know how she shoots.

Thank you. I'll definitely give updates at we go along. I had a box of Federal Swift A-Frames but although each barrel shot really well individually, the rifle didn't pair them well. I've got Superior loading me some stuff to try soon that should preform better as a whole.