Fear Mongering on AH about trophy import bans

[WebleyGreene455]

There have been god replies to this already but to add my two cents, I will explain why I have no interest in a trophy replica.

A replica is simply not the animal you shot. The small number of trophies I have from domestic hunts are special to me as they are the actual animal I’ve hunted and killed. There will be differences between them and any other members of the same species I shoot in the future. They are unique and they are real. I can touch the antlers of my 6 point mule deer and I am touching the same antlers I held when I was photographed with him by my father on that evening three months ago. I will do it 50 years from now and still be touching something real, something that was there. No deer ever was or ever will be exactly the same.

I imagine that after a hunter has killed enough game it becomes less important as their walls fill up but a trophy is more than just a head on a wall. That’s why we don’t just buy heads, we earn them, one way or another. I might display another hunter’s animal head in my wall if it were unique or historic but it would not be mine, it would not be a trophy to me.

A replica could be okay and there are situations where it could be the best option (damaged/lost trophies for instance) but I think the general aversion to them stems from them not being real. It’s not a thing that has ever lived or strived or felt the warmth of the sun on its face.

I think there’s a lot that anti-trophy/non-hunters don’t understand about the emotions and philosophy behind men keeping trophies. There is a human need to brag but I think that often all they see. Hunters love, respect, and admire the animals we kill. Trophies are the immortalization of and animal and a hunt. Most animals have shirt lives and the trophy allows a creature to live on in the memory of not only the man who has taken it but all those whom chooses to share it with.

I don’t know if a replica can do that.

As a matter of practicality and perhaps an ease on my wallet, I for one have leaned heavily towards the idea of skull mounts with the hides separate to be used as I please whether as a rug, jacket, cushion, tablecloth, whatever.

For the skulls, at least, you can probably replicate those easily and using really quality material indistinguishable from bone except up close. I'm not saying I wouldn't feel some disappointment having a cast skull and not the original but it'd be about the same thing as dinosaurs in a museum, I think. Copies of the actual bones can be an acceptable and still-impressive alternative.

But not everyone wants just skulls, of course. Even I'm starting to lean away from it a little, although my inner practicality still wins out.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Dinosaurs in a museum...

I don't have an investment of time, money, and energy in a museum dinosaur. I don't have a personal experience and treasure trove of memories associated with a museum dinosaur.

I will say this: if I'd have killed that dinosaur, I'd want the real skull. Where it'd go (in the house) would have to get sorted out after the fact.

Webley... zero disrespect to your post all; just funning around.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Dinosaurs in a museum...

I don't have an investment of time, money, and energy in a museum dinosaur. I don't have a personal experience and treasure trove of memories associated with a museum dinosaur.

I will say this: if I'd have killed that dinosaur, I'd want the real skull. Where it'd go (in the house) would have to get sorted out after the fact.

Webley... zero disrespect to your post all; just funning around.

Lol my meaning is, actual fossilized bones are immensely dense and heavy. The spectacular skeleton displays are lighter-weight casts that won't cave the floor in.

I fully agree with you, though, and didn't think any disrespect was intended. As something to look at, for example, a cast crocodile skull would be alright but it wouldn't be THE crocodile I watched ambush an antelope the day before and waited to ambush my own self. There's not a visceral connection and personally photos and video still wouldn't bridge that gap for me. I'd leave something behind, and not just the trophy.

 

[PARA45]

I went to Africa in 2010, and mounted everything I killed. I'm going next year, and most likely mount the 4 or 5 animals I'm going after. I am also hunting a lioness that I cannot bring into the US, but that won't stop me from enjoying what I do. Worthless trophy or not, it's my choice, and the lion ban will not stop me from fulfilling this long dream of hunting a lioness. No one can take away those memories. Ban or not, go on that hunt of a life time. We are here for a short period of time, enjoy this precious time.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

As a matter of practicality and perhaps an ease on my wallet, I for one have leaned heavily towards the idea of skull mounts with the hides separate to be used as I please whether as a rug, jacket, cushion, tablecloth, whatever.

For the skulls, at least, you can probably replicate those easily and using really quality material indistinguishable from bone except up close. I'm not saying I wouldn't feel some disappointment having a cast skull and not the original but it'd be about the same thing as dinosaurs in a museum, I think. Copies of the actual bones can be an acceptable and still-impressive alternative.

But not everyone wants just skulls, of course. Even I'm starting to lean away from it a little, although my inner practicality still wins out.

I like skulls and I think they still satisfy the need for something real but I also don’t begrudge anyone preserving their hunt in any way they see fit. Photos, video, skulls, full mount, or even replica.

Funny you should mention fossils. I’m a paleontologist and can say that reproductions are an important research tool. It can be difficult for researchers to travel to institutions to study specimens and moving fossils is risky so high fidelity reproductions are extremely valuable. 3D printing is the new frontier for this and our department at the museum I work for has been developing our scanning/printing capability.

On the other hand, beyond the science, there is something really special about handling the remains of an organism that was born, lived, and died millions of years before the first men walked the earth and had lain, buried there, waiting for another being to not only find it but to appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Lol my meaning is, actual fossilized bones are immensely dense and heavy. The spectacular skeleton displays are lighter-weight casts that won't cave the floor in.

I fully agree with you, though, and didn't think any disrespect was intended. As something to look at, for example, a cast crocodile skull would be alright but it wouldn't be THE crocodile I watched ambush an antelope the day before and waited to ambush my own self. There's not a visceral connection and personally photos and video still wouldn't bridge that gap for me. I'd leave something behind, and not just the trophy.

You have summed up my earlier post perfectly. “Visceral” is just the right word.

Fun fact in regard to heavy fossils bones; the famous Tyrannosaurus rex specimen known as Sue, displayed at the Field Museum in Chicago (which also has the Tsavo maneaters) is all original bone. All except for the skull. The mounted skull is a cast and the original resides in a case on the floor because it weighs 600 lbs!

 

[WebleyGreene455]

I like skulls and I think they still satisfy the need for something real but I also don’t begrudge anyone preserving their hunt in any way they see fit. Photos, video, skulls, full mount, or even replica.

Funny you should mention fossils. I’m a paleontologist and can say that reproductions are an important research tool. It can be difficult for researchers to travel to institutions to study specimens and moving fossils is risky so high fidelity reproductions are extremely valuable. 3D printing is the new frontier for this and our department at the museum I work for has been developing our scanning/printing capability.

On the other hand, beyond the science, there is something really special about handling the remains of an organism that was born, lived, and died millions of years before the first men walked the earth and had lain, buried there, waiting for another being to not only find it but to appreciate it for what it is.

I was actually going to go on and say that WERE I a paleontologist, I'd feel the same way. Seeing the reproduction of a skeleton I'd personally unearthed and brushed off and carefully extracted from the rock would certainly give me a sense of accomplishment and pride and as you said it's an extremely important educational tool as well. It'd remind me of the memories of the dig and the excitement. But it'd also be a different experience from first touching the fossil and knowing I'm making contact with something that once lived millennia before the advent of our species.

It's the same reason I want to get into reenactment/living history and why I spend my money on vintage arms as well as new-made ones. Both have their place in my interests, and both can be educational to others (which I want them to be; I wouldn't be a good history major if I didn't seek to teach people things now and then).

 

[Royal27]

 

[Tanks]

As a matter of practicality and perhaps an ease on my wallet, I for one have leaned heavily towards the idea of skull mounts with the hides separate to be used as I please whether as a rug, jacket, cushion, tablecloth, whatever.
...

I'd say that if one can import the skins then one can also import the rest.

 

[Hunt anything]

I have a few skull mounts and many people that visit my trophy room have 2 comments, 1 is they had no idea that there is so many different species of ducks and geese in the US ,2 is they don’t care for the skulls. Granted most are friends of my wife so I gravitate towards shoulder and pedestal mounts. The 1 reproduction I do have was from a PAC elephant and importation was not an option.

 

[Jfet]

A big solution to the problem of anti-hunters is education. In the USA we need to be in the public schools teaching about hunting, fishing, firearms and conservation.

 

[DieJager]

A big solution to the problem of anti-hunters is education

I second that. Most of the antis have the same goal as us hunters. They just don't know.

We as hunters over here try to do what they did. Infiltrate the ranks of multiple nature organizations and lobby clubs. Engage in discussions and clearly stating our goals are the same: wildlife conservation.

Most of them think we are bloodlust killers. If you tell them how much hours and money, dedication we put in wildlife conservation they are shocked. 90 percent have altered their view of hunting after a good talk. 10 percent you cannot talk to begin with. We are trying to make broad coalitions with different nature organizations. It seems to work, because greenies are having a more favorable view it seems of hunting. But the radicals always are dangerous. This year they almost got rabbit hunting banned with misinformation. Our secretary refused to implement it but it was close.

Educate, educate, educate. And have a seat at the table that works too. So do not burn to many bridges if it does not have to.

 

[Hunt anything]

Jfet, you are definitely on point! My daughter was a freshman in high school when the Cecil debacle happened and her international studies class was discussing mostly the cons of “trophy hunting “ I was in Mozambique at the time and she called me on the sat phone to ask questions, I explained all of the benefits of international hunting and sent her pictures of us distributing Buffalo meat to a village. She was able to turn about 60% of her class into ”our” camp. Good debate and education seem to be the key along with keeping emotions out of it.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Some of the best DG hunts we've been on involved "own-use" animals (for the Tribal communities' own-use; nothing may be kept.) But, the experience was most important, and will never be forgotten. Less hassle and expense following the hunt, the savings of which can be put forth toward future hunting adventures (and the associated wildlife protections.) I'm fine with my plastic replica tusks-the originals weren't coming home anyway, whether own-use or trophy! 'Thinking of opening a natural history museum for unwed mothers with what I've got hanging around already from a half-century of supporting wildlife conservation...I believe, with some species, you have the option to ship to friends in Canada et. al. for safekeeping in the meantime if you absolutely must have your trophies home at some point.

 

[Tanks]

A big solution to the problem of anti-hunters is education. In the USA we need to be in the public schools teaching about hunting, fishing, firearms and conservation.

In an education system where women have penises and men menstruate I doubt any argument would sway those that base their beliefs on emotions rather than logic.

Especially when the educators are to the left of Lenin.

 

[Jfet]

In an education system where women have penises and men menstruate I doubt any argument would sway those that base their beliefs on emotions rather than logic.

Especially when the educators are to the left of Lenin.

But we are already there! The Outdoor Adventure Class curriculum is in over 700 schools, private and public in the U.S. Schools in Europe are contacting the Outdoor Tomorrow Foundation on how to develop a curriculum for their schools.
Go check and see if the program is in your local high school. If not, contact Scot McClure and he will help you get it in the schools.
Outdoor Tomorrow Foundation: https://www.gootf.com/
Scot McClure: Scot@GoOTF.com
We have the enemy by the belt buckle! The ant-hunters have no idea we are in the education system so strongly. Now it’s up to y’all to go talk to your local school administrators. It’s ok they never knew y’all as a nerdy high school freshman. They will see valued community members that have proven plan to help get kids to dream. They are scared to death of y’all. It will be very difficult for them to refuse, especially if your group is willing to purchase the equipment for the class.
Get off your key boards! Quit moaning and groaning! Contact Scot McClure and he will help y’all. Don’t make me drag you over to The OTF Booth, 222, at the DSC Convention and introduce you to Scot.
Now I am going to sit in the corner because Brickburn is going to put me in timeout.

 

[Jfet]

Building ground blinds in my Outdoor Adventure Class

Archery

Watching a debate between Phillip Glass and Born Free USA

Scholastic Action Pistol Team

Taking students fishing during the school day!

This is happening all across the USA. Y’all help make it happen more!

 

[DAVE FREEBURN SAFARIS]

@WilhelmM
I think there are many who will accept replicas. You can see how popular is tuskless ele to hunt, No trophy there. There is already a "non trophy" culture within trophy hunters community.

Same with the Green Rhino dart hunts. The replicas today are outstanding.

 

[mark-hunter]

I was at my PH's father home for a lunch. Many trophies there including ele tusks.
I dont know how many pounds were the tusks, but they were large, thick and impresive.
I couldnt help, but trying to touch them
When I touched them they were light as feathers.
Replicas.
But visually, I couldnt tell the diference.

For tusks, horns, antlers, the solution is there.
What I am not aware, if there is solution made yet, for skin, mane and hyde.

 

[Tanks]

@WilhelmM
I think there are many who will accept replicas. You can see how popular is tuskless ele to hunt, No trophy there. There is already a "non trophy" culture within trophy hunters community.

The reason for a tuskless is popular is the $5K trophy fee. Heck, I have paid $3K per multiple exportable elephants (just skin etc. not tusks) at campfire hunts in the past.

Also, I am exporting the skins etc. on the tuskless as well.

One other reason also is the anemic size of tusks on "trophy" bulls. I am not going to pay $60K (overall cost) for a "trophy" hunt of bulls that are 20-30 pounds to a side at most. I'd rather go to Botswana etc. and pay a bit extra for a real tusker.