Fear Mongering on AH about trophy import bans

[BRICKBURN]

FFS, if hunters won't go to Africa because they can't get their worthless trophy back home then it's on them. I'm not not going to be sympathetic towards them because it's plain fucking stupid.

@WilhelmM
Most members grasp the rules here on AH and certainly most are bright enough not to poke the bear (ME).
I have provided you with a PM outlining the posting guidelines. Suffice to say, your latest reply to my post does not conform.

 

[sierraone]

Thats great, but why not everybody else? I'm unsure if I'll get any honest response.

I have hunted S.A. twice. I have never brought home a "trophy" and have no intention of doing so. With a little luck I will hunt S.A. again. And will not bring home trophies, only photos. I think there may be more of us out here than you realize.

P.S. I don't think anyone here (at least the ones I know ) are asking for your sympathy...why would we?

 

[sierraone]

Yep I think it's time for Wilhelm to go.

 

[John Wasmuth]

“There are replicas…..”. Why then would we go on Safari when all we have to do is pick out and order the replicas we think we would want, place the order and submit payment. And to add to the excitement we could order a life size target of whatever replica we ordered, take it to the range, fire a couple of shots into said target and poof!! We just saved about a hundred grand……

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Different strokes for different folks. I love game meat and would being back as much as I could if allowed, especially after sampling what I did. But... I also want my trophies too - the genuine articles.

 

[Red Leg]

FFS, if hunters won't go to Africa because they can't get their worthless trophy back home then it's on them. I'm not not going to be sympathetic towards them because it's plain fucking stupid.

That is not merely churlish, it is a childish reply. I can only assume you get angry and profane as a coping mechanism when people disagree with you rather than actually discuss an issue? It is a particularly ugly response when you postulate a conclusion among a group with broad experience in the subject matter; experience that informs their responses.

Many of us here on this forum have reached the point that bringing back a particular trophy has become selective. Most of us have only so much room or only so many resources we are willing to devote to additional space to hang trophies or to the taxidermy itself. But I am very proud of the ones I have brought back from wherever I hunted them. I suspect that is true of the vast majority who post here.

But this threat is not really going to affect people who have spent a lifetime hunting and are at such a selective point in life. I would suggest we are a small percentage of the hunters upon which the South African industry depends. I suspect the anti's don't really care about us either. What these bans will affect are the many hunters considering a first or second safari to Africa; those who do not yet have a collection of physical African memories. I don't have a client book in front of me, but I suspect they make up a good portion of every South African and Namibian outfitter's clientele each year. Most importantly, however, they make up 100% of their future clientele.

A trophy import ban will dissuade legions of those people from ever making that first trip. I assume that is exactly the outcome the anti-hunting activists want and it would be disastrous for the industry as a whole - to include not only game farm owners, but sponsors like Riflepermits, Tag, Travel Express, Life Form, etc., etc. Perhaps even AfricaHunting.com.

 

[Hunt anything]

I really don’t consider myself a trophy hunter, here in the states I hunt for meat and to get away, I will probably never mount another whitetail but will not pass a trophy up because I do enjoy big antlers. As far as Africa goes on my few safaris I have taken some really good trophies some above average some purely meat animals and a couple of problem animals. I did get reprouctions of the the elephant tusk but it’s not the real thing and I’m OK with that, but if I’m not able to bring the next world record kudu home ( that I will probably never see)would be a tough call. Let’s hope it will never come to that. I truly do love the African continent and my trophies that I have brought home are definitely not worthless. But I would definitely think long and hard about going back if I wanted to bring a trophy home and could not.

 

[Reed Thoma Outdoors]

I'm a young hunter who has never hunted out of the US and I only have one mount (a pheasant that I mounted myself). I have always been a meat hunter and my whole family hunts for meat, not trophies. But as I have now shot many does and small bucks, I really would like to hunt a nice buck to have on my wall. I feel that even hunters who hunt for meat still have a yearning for a big buck, in this example. So, saying that it is pointless to have a trophy from a hunt that you are proud of and want to reminisce that memory would be a false statement for most. And I know that if I had a mount on the wall or a trophy room, like some on here, I would be gazing at it every day and have the memories running through my head every time I see it. I just don't get that as much from a picture.

That being said if I am ever fortunate enough to hunt an animal like an elephant, rhino, hippo, or other animals of that nature, I would gladly make a replica. But if I hunt an animal like a lion or other animals with hair/fur a replica just isn't the same.

It all has to do with preference, if something is non-exportable I would more than likely try and hunt for a different species or a different place because I have many species I would like to hunt.
The whole reason for the concern is that today they ban trophy imports but what will they try and ban next time? They may go for the actual hunting of certain species, and it goes downhill from there. One loss for hunters is a big deal and can cause a domino effect. They already are doing it in the US, states like California stopping mountain lion hunts, or New Jersey stopping black bear hunting, or outrage in Wisconsin over wolf hunting to name a few. They whittle us down until we have nothing left, the antis have even said that is their plan, to slowly take away seasons, methods, imports, etc.

All this being said I have never hunted out of country and haven't seen as much legislation as you all have. I am just giving you my perspective from someone who is seeing the effects of anti-hunting legislation at home and foreign countries. this is just my two cents.

P.S. - I am planning to hunt in the UK next fall for red stag and muntjac, so I will have a little more of y'alls perspective.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

In some defense of Wilhem’s point, not the manner in which he’s trying to make his point which I don’t agree with, I offer this to consider…..

My trophy room is really mostly a trophy staircase. It’s pretty full now, really not much room for more. Filling the space are many animals of my own, but also a number my wife and kids killed. I enjoy that greatly.

There’s not one animal there, or bird for that matter, that I don’t recall exactly how those moments in hunting happened. I can look at any of them and retell the story of how that hunt happened.

If tomorrow my house were to catch fire and burn to the ground taking with it all of those trophies, it wouldn’t change this at all. Disappointing? To be certain it would be, but the memories would remain. Only old age and health could take those.

Folks, don’t short change yourself of those hunting experiences over taxidermy.

 

[Gemsbok45]

You ever dream of Leopard hunting,I would do it as fast as possible. Your at Least getting your personal property in line for import.Never know what the cut off will be!!

 

[R.M.C.]

I'm heading on my first safari in July and I definitely wouldn't be planning it if I wasn't having "trophies" shipped home. I'd be planning a trip to Iceland for caribou and musk ox , or red stag in Argentina. I don't really understand Wilhelms argument. If trophy shipments from Africa stop, so does my desire to hunt there. I greatly enjoy my taxidermy mounts and I've never hunted Africa before. This stuff could easily make or break the African safari industry, as many have mentioned.

 

[RTG]

Okay... and? You should not be seeing the trophy as the be-all-end-all. The experience should be the priority but unfortunately people focus on materialistic possessions.

There are so many examples of replicas looking exactly like the animal hunted yet that's apparently not good enough. There's a reason why organizations like Meat Eater tend to distance themselves from trophy hunters.

Can you refer me to some African guides where the experience will be the priority for them, as opposed to my wired payment sent in advance?

 

[R.M.C.]

Can you refer me to some African guides where the experience will be the priority for them, as opposed to my wired payment sent in advance?

Amen brother lol it should work both ways right?

 

[Deleted member 40394]

Personally I love taxidermy and I can look at animal heads for hours. My collection right now are deer heads, ducks, geese, and turkeys. I wouldn’t come to Africa if I couldn’t bring trophy’s back. I would still want to go but I doubt I would pull the trigger if imports were banned. I think would hunt lion tomorrow if I could bring it back here. I like memories and for me the mount is an important physical representation of that memory.
but this whole discussion is one reason I am pulling the trigger now in making the trip in 2022.

 

[K-man]

I think one of the biggest problems for me is that any government thinks they have the "right" to deprive me of my own property legally hunted and paid for. I can understand contraband, drugs, matters of national security, but the idea that legally hunted trophies should be government restricted is just ridiculous.

 

[Tgood1]

Okay... and? You should not be seeing the trophy as the be-all-end-all. The experience should be the priority but unfortunately people focus on materialistic possessions.

There are so many examples of replicas looking exactly like the animal hunted yet that's apparently not good enough. There's a reason why organizations like Meat Eater tend to distance themselves from trophy hunters.

I do a good bit of Africa taxidermy so please accept I disagree with you. The African trophy hunt experience is far reaching, across several continents and numerous employees/employers

 

[Deleted member 40394]

I think one of the biggest problems for me is that any government thinks they have the "right" to deprive me of my own property legally hunted and paid for. I can understand contraband, drugs, matters of national security, but the idea that legally hunted trophies should be government restricted is just ridiculous.

I agree completely. I don’t agree with any import restriction animal. The problem is when will it stop? 10-20 years from now it will be can’t import regular plains game, etc. That’s why I am going over hopefully a few times before that junk happens. Government will only get bigger and more powerful and corrupt. Thank goodness I am on the weekly buy ammo plan. For when I really will need it.

 

[Longwalker]

I would hunt again in Africa, trophies or not. To me trophies are mainly in the memories of the experience. I didn't bring a cape buffalo home last time, my choice, because of the permits and legal delays and money and time required. I'd go again, and without the trophy costs and shipment worries hanging over me and the hunt, I'd probably enjoy myself even more. But I would be saddened if my fellow hunters could not bring trophies home because of legal impediments. There is no good reason to ban trophy imports. We in the Americas and Europe have far too many well meaning but misguided persons asking for ineffective and harmful legislation that they think is contributing to "conservation". And stupid populist politicians who listen and act.

 

[flatwater bill]

The OP is a non-hunter. She(he?) has posted, among other things, of her pleasure at the Covid pandemic, how the South African riots were the "dawn of a new day", how ALL the guilty would soon be prosecuted (maybe referring to White farmers?). She ranted about the post regarding firearm confiscation at hiway check points....calling it fear mongering, (again during the RSA riots) then admitted she was not there. An AH member who WAS at the checkpoint verified that it WAS happening. Adamant, insulting, but completely wrong. The subtle, and often clever, messages from the OP suggest that she wants only indigenous hunting, and is against visiting hunters. I believe she is an anti-hunting Troll... I don't appreciate her foul language on AH..(I often look at this site with my grandkids).....why else would such a person be so attracted to this site??..But this is JMO, nothing more..................FWB

 

[Randy F]

When I go again I may or may not bring home some or maybe not any. Photos or a video may be enough. Buy I’d like to be able to decide that at the time. (If it’s still “allowed”)

However, for me the taxidermy isn’t just about a memory and a prize, it’s also about honoring a foe, if you will, that challenged me and I had to work for that earned the extra expense and trouble to get him home.

Most probably would be European at this point but I wonder, how many hunters decided not to bring home their first Cape Buffalo?
How many would walk away whole after a week of knees full of thorns that look like porcupines, wading through swamps, sweating, crawling and working your tail off with just a picture of what will likely be the biggest bull you’ll ever get a chance at…no matter how many times you’ve been there or how many you have?
There will always be that special one or two that a picture just won’t quite do it for you.
Replica? Maybe. But I’d be fooling myself, it’s just not the same.
I would still hunt, but it would certainly take away a huge portion of why I would strive for, and hold out for the biggest, oldest, ornery bull I can get. That one is special and will have earned an expensive spot on the wall.

How much I’m willing to pay would be greatly affected as well.