Fair Chase hunts in South Africa

[35bore]

Trust me I would much rather have this conversation over a couple, (okay couple dozen) cold beers, sitting in a pub here or there with you in the UK. Fact is, that is not the way it is, we have to use the net to convey our experiences and opinions. That being said you keep telling us to read the post, I have read this thing several times, and the original question on unfenced areas to hunt in SA. Several have posted that there is not. I personally don't know, but the regular outfitters and members of this forum who post on "whatever the topic of the day is" who are from SA and when it pertains to SA, I tend to believe them because they are there, every day of every year, (lucky buggers). I had a fence phobia prior to my hunt in SA, I saw the gate, then the fence when hunting Warthogs, otherwise I would have sworn I was in the middle of nowhere and that there was no fence.

So again, if it is not what you want or the way you want to hunt, then don't. According to these guys (whom I trust, who are outfitters there) if they say there is no free range animals in SA, then take there word for it. The driver I had from the airport to our hunting area said the same thing these guys are. Unless they escape, ALL game in SA are behind a fence, that's how they keep a healthy population. That was the drive of the car, not even involved in the hunt.

Next time I get to the UK I will let you know, we can go to the pub and get drunk, and rehash this topic, or we can beat the shit out of each other for a while, then get drunk. I don't care, just seems that this topic is dragging on. TRUST ME, I'll let you know when I am back in your country, I like to drink.

 

[MJ75]

Trust me I would much rather have this conversation over a couple, (okay couple dozen) cold beers, sitting in a pub here or there with you in the UK. Fact is, that is not the way it is, we have to use the net to convey our experiences and opinions. That being said you keep telling us to read the post, I have read this thing several times, and the original question on unfenced areas to hunt in SA. Several have posted that there is not. I personally don't know, but the regular outfitters and members of this forum who post on "whatever the topic of the day is" who are from SA and when it pertains to SA, I tend to believe them because they are there, every day of every year, (lucky buggers). I had a fence phobia prior to my hunt in SA, I saw the gate, then the fence when hunting Warthogs, otherwise I would have sworn I was in the middle of nowhere and that there was no fence.

So again, if it is not what you want or the way you want to hunt, then don't. According to these guys (whom I trust, who are outfitters there) if they say there is no free range animals in SA, then take there word for it. The driver I had from the airport to our hunting area said the same thing these guys are. Unless they escape, ALL game in SA are behind a fence, that's how they keep a healthy population. That was the drive of the car, not even involved in the hunt.

Next time I get to the UK I will let you know, we can go to the pub and get drunk, and rehash this topic, or we can beat the shit out of each other for a while, then get drunk. I don't care, just seems that this topic is dragging on. TRUST ME, I'll let you know when I am back in your country, I like to drink.

Trust me, I have no intention of dragging this thread on. PM me if you're in the UK. I've seen your location, believe it or not I own a couple of investment properties in Kansas City, MO. I was there last december. So maybe I'll be back there before you get here. I'll let you read the email I received from Andrew Mclaren on the subject. It's pretty intreresting.

 

[sestoppelman]

And you reached the conclusion you did. That kind of proves my point in post 30.

And I would remind you of your last para in post 29 where you state

"unfenced, for the purposes of fair chase". I think any reasonable person could take that to mean that in your opinion a fenced property may not be fair chase.:crazylol:

 

[MJ75]

And I would remind you of your last para in post 29 where you state

"unfenced, for the purposes of fair chase". I think any reasonable person could take that to mean that in your opinion a fenced property may not be fair chase.:crazylol:

Aye, you took that out of context though.

And if yiou'd read and more importantly understood CT's posts, the penny would have dropped. Fenced can be fair chase. Is that the end of this pointless banter now?

 

[sestoppelman]

Dont think so. For a guy who was done posting on his own thread some time ago, you keep coming back for more! LOL!!!!

 

[MJ75]

Ah I see, you're one of those guys that has to have the last word. I've seen those before. All yours.... lol

 

[owenowen]

Sorry i had to close this chat off

Conclusion -

The the earth is "fenced" by roads , water and cities ! In SA the fences just keep the jumpers in such as impala , kudu , eland etc.. All the rest are free to move around as they wish...

Happy hunting fellows !!

 

[ChrisT]

Perhaps you missed post 21 and the context it was written in? Trust me, using the caps lock key add nothing to an argument! lol

I understand the points made about fair chase perfectly. Perhaps you misunderstood or missed post 31?

As I've posted previously the same old argument has been done to death elsewhere There is nothing new on this thread in regards to what may or may not constitute 'fair chase'. I'm not convinced you completely understand the reason for me posting the thread in the first place. I'll repost it on another forum and be far more specific so we may avoid going over the same old ground again. And if we do, Namibia it is! Incidentally there are four of us. Two have hunted RSA before, the other two have not and don't particularly care if there are fences or not. That's their business, but I reckon when they inevitably plan their second trip they will be far more specific in what they want. But I'm off topic again. Thanks all for your input, but it's time for me to leave this thread alone. Cheers.

MJ, I think I perfectly understood the context that post 21 was written in and no, I did not miss or misunderstand post 31 as this was actually my own post and I knew exactly what I meant when I wrote it.

If you were following and understood my posts, you would have noticed that I was never debating what is fair chase and what is not. I simply stated that "free range" and "fair chase" do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

I did on several occasions allude to the concepts of "free range" and "unfenced"... What I was trying to achieve by this was to ascertain what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" is... Because knowing what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" were would place me in a better position to accurately answer your original question - or not?

When I first started participating in this discussion I suggested that you decide what it is that you want to hunt and then look for an Outfitter that offers hunts for these animals in the environment that you prefer to hunt them (free range / unfenced). If you were looking for a free range Red Stag hunt I guess you're not going to be looking anywhere in Africa are you? But in the same sense - if you're looking for a free range Kudu hunt, Scotland wouldn't be the best place to start looking. And the exact same principle applies to looking for a free range Springbok hunt in Limpopo... I can honestly not see how this concept is so difficult to understand.

If I understand Jaco's point correctly, he is saying that even if you are hunting a low-fenced area, there is bound to be a high fence somewhere outside that low fenced area. (Look at block (4)) in my diagram. The next high fence may be 1 mile from the boundary of block (4) or it may be 500 miles... but at some point you will probably reach a high fence. To put things into perspective: One of the properties in the Eastern Cape where I hunt free range kudu is a sheep farm of roughly 10,000 acres of mountains and karoo shrub. The nearest high fence is (maybe) 200 miles away - probably more. Total size of unfenced area adjacent to my hunting area? Heck, I don't know. It might be hundreds of thousands of acres! So yes, if you were to leave the low fence of the hunting area and start walking in a given direction for long enough you'll probably end up seeing a high fence... You might run out of water, it might take you a few months and you might end up in another Province but yes, you will probably find a high fence somewhere...

 

[ChrisT]

According to these guys (whom I trust, who are outfitters there) if they say there is no free range animals in SA, then take there word for it. The driver I had from the airport to our hunting area said the same thing these guys are. Unless they escape, ALL game in SA are behind a fence, that's how they keep a healthy population. That was the drive of the car, not even involved in the hunt.

Not wishing to drag this thread out any longer than necessary, but this statement is not 100% correct. The animals were here first, fences came after that... Some animals were fenced "in" by doing this and some were fenced "out". It is true that some of those that were fenced in have since jumped "out" (escaped) and there are those that were originally fenced "out" that have since jumped "in" to high-fenced areas. But not all animals found outside high fenced areas necessarily escaped from high fenced areas. They might have been there before the fences were erected.

Interestingly; kudu that were born inside a high fenced area will usually be quite content and settle quickly when relocated to another high fenced area whereas those that were captured in an unfenced (low fenced) area and are not used to the confines of a high fenced ranch will initially try their best to get out of the high fenced area.

Best,

 

[MJ75]

MJ, I think I perfectly understood the context that post 21 was written in and no, I did not miss or misunderstand post 31 as this was actually my own post and I knew exactly what I meant when I wrote it.

If you were following and understood my posts, you would have noticed that I was never debating what is fair chase and what is not. I simply stated that "free range" and "fair chase" do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

I did on several occasions allude to the concepts of "free range" and "unfenced"... What I was trying to achieve by this was to ascertain what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" is... Because knowing what your perception of "free range" and "unfenced" were would place me in a better position to accurately answer your original question - or not?

When I first started participating in this discussion I suggested that you decide what it is that you want to hunt and then look for an Outfitter that offers hunts for these animals in the environment that you prefer to hunt them (free range / unfenced). If you were looking for a free range Red Stag hunt I guess you're not going to be looking anywhere in Africa are you? But in the same sense - if you're looking for a free range Kudu hunt, Scotland wouldn't be the best place to start looking. And the exact same principle applies to looking for a free range Springbok hunt in Limpopo... I can honestly not see how this concept is so difficult to understand.

If I understand Jaco's point correctly, he is saying that even if you are hunting a low-fenced area, there is bound to be a high fence somewhere outside that low fenced area. (Look at block (4)) in my diagram. The next high fence may be 1 mile from the boundary of block (4) or it may be 500 miles... but at some point you will probably reach a high fence. To put things into perspective: One of the properties in the Eastern Cape where I hunt free range kudu is a sheep farm of roughly 10,000 acres of mountains and karoo shrub. The nearest high fence is (maybe) 200 miles away - probably more. Total size of unfenced area adjacent to my hunting area? Heck, I don't know. It might be hundreds of thousands of acres! So yes, if you were to leave the low fence of the hunting area and start walking in a given direction for long enough you'll probably end up seeing a high fence... You might run out of water, it might take you a few months and you might end up in another Province but yes, you will probably find a high fence somewhere...

Ah, my fault I meant post 30. Not 31!!!

It would have been more pragmatic, quicker and easier just to ask for an opinion on what my definition of fair chase is rather than complicate the whole issue don't you think?

But as I said, there is no universally accepted definition of these, only opinion. I did get the point Jaco was trying to make. I don't neccesarily agree with it from a practical point of view, but I understand the theory.There may well be a high fence 200 miles from your sheep farm, but it does not surround the entire sheep farm so this point is somewhat moot.

 

[MJ75]

Sorry i had to close this chat off

Conclusion -

The the earth is "fenced" by roads , water and cities ! In SA the fences just keep the jumpers in such as impala , kudu , eland etc.. All the rest are free to move around as they wish...

Happy hunting fellows !!

It's a poor argument though as some game swims and flies......

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

NEXT!

 

[MJ75]

NEXT!

How about what brand of can opener to pack when hunting lion in RSA?

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Now you're just uninformed, please tell me r all men in you're part of the world issued with sanitary pads? Seeing that it's run by a woman?

My best

 

[Upton O. Good]

In that case the simple answer to your question is probably no. There are no "unfenced" areas to hunt, not in South Africa - probably not in Africa for that matter.

And I don't mean to sound like a smart-ass by saying this. But the title of your post reads: "Fair Chase RSA Hunts" and in your opening line you asked if anyone knows of anyone offering hunts in unfenced areas... This quite easily could create the impression that you were drawing a parralel between "fair chase" and "unfenced".

With this in mind; do you know if anyone offers hunting in unfenced areas in the UK?

Well said.

My fourth trip up a kopje in a day, I didn't think it was "fair" at all...

 

[MJ75]

Now you're just uninformed, please tell me r all men in you're part of the world issued with sanitary pads? Seeing that it's run by a woman?

My best

My part of the world is run by a woman? Now Jaco, that did make me laugh out loud. Who's uninformed?

 

[sestoppelman]

Ah I see, you're one of those guys that has to have the last word. I've seen those before. All yours.... lol

Not me!! LOL!!

 

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks for the laugh you guys.

 

[spike.t]

Ah, my fault I meant post 30. Not 31!!!

It would have been more pragmatic, quicker and easier just to ask for an opinion on what my definition of fair chase is rather than complicate the whole issue don't you think?

But as I said, there is no universally accepted definition of these, only opinion. I did get the point Jaco was trying to make. I don't neccesarily agree with it from a practical point of view, but I understand the theory.There may well be a high fence 200 miles from your sheep farm, but it does not surround the entire sheep farm so this point is somewhat moot.

MJ please raying: dont ask for any opinions about what is fair chase or the size of the area, as if it comes up again i think me and jaco will have to take to :beer: permanently, so we dont go hunting the people posting :huntingrifle::machinegun::biggrin2:

 

[35bore]

MJ please raying: dont ask for any opinions about what is fair chase or the size of the area, as if it comes up again i think me and jaco will have to take to :beer: permanently, so we dont go hunting the people posting :huntingrifle::machinegun::biggrin2:

I'll bet with enough alcohol, we could convince ourselves that this is a GOOD idea...