Express .450 NE

[grand veneur]

Welcome !

 

[Kolekcjoner]

Wykonaj elaboracji, 100 nowych łusek, starczy na minimum 1000 strzałów.

 

[Kolekcjoner]

Wszystko (PDF) mam w języku polskim. Całkiem dobrze tłumaczy „Chrome”.
Z czasem, będzie po angielsku.

 

[Kolekcjoner]

 

[Kolekcjoner]

 

[Kolekcjoner]

 

[85lc]

Is tgere a translation of all this?
Is this rifle for sale and if so, how much?

 

[rookhawk]

Neat old gun. I can't read Polish, but I'm sketpical that the gun is a 450 Nitro Express, or at least that it was one when new. I suspect its a 450 Black Powder Express or that its a Nitro-for-Black loading based on the size and age of the hammer rifle.

Could we see the proof marks on the barrel flats?

 

[Kolekcjoner]

NA SPRZEDAŻ > 30 000 $

 

[Kolekcjoner]

BĘDZIE TŁUMACZENIE.

 

[Kolekcjoner]

BĘDZIE TŁUMACZENIE.

 

[matt85]

Neat old gun. I can't read Polish, but I'm sketpical that the gun is a 450 Nitro Express, or at least that it was one when new. I suspect its a 450 Black Powder Express or that its a Nitro-for-Black loading based on the size and age of the hammer rifle.

Could we see the proof marks on the barrel flats?

This is precisely what I was thinking.

-matt

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Neat old gun. I can't read Polish, but I'm sketpical that the gun is a 450 Nitro Express, or at least that it was one when new. I suspect its a 450 Black Powder Express or that its a Nitro-for-Black loading based on the size and age of the hammer rifle.

Could we see the proof marks on the barrel flats?

.450 Nitro didn't exist until 1898, while the listing seems to date the rifle at 1884 originally. I would say .450 BPE for sure, if so. Maybe it was rebarreled or reproofed, though. I can gather the barrels are made of Krupp steel and the rifle itself by Joh. Springer's Erben out of Vienna. Prestigious gunmaker, them. But without proofs I doubt it's .450NE regardless of what OP says. Maybe nitro-for-black would be alright but that's just smokeless carefully loaded into the slightly-shorter BPE casing, not a completely different cartridge. More pictures would be welcome either way, it looks a handsome gun.

~~W.G.455

 

[Kolekcjoner]

1884 rok, Doppel Express .450 Lang. Po elaboracji kordytem w 1898 roku = .450 NE.

 

[Kolekcjoner]

All material will be translated into English.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

Okay, I make no guarantees of this translation, gentlemen, but I believe it reasonably accurate. Google translate even corrects my inability to use accents and diacritics while typing!

This gun was made in 1884 by Joh. Springer's Erben, Vienna, for Herr Bela Szegedy in .450 Express Long (black powder). The company specialized in producing luxury firearms. Customers included kings and aristocrats. The company was appointed to supply arms to the court of Monaco. (etc etc, history of the company, not relevant to the firearm itself).

Couple of the appending pictures mention Arabesque engraving, seems there's a second set of barrels OP says are in 9.3x74R but I'm inclined to think they're actually in 9.3x72R due to it being confirmed a BPE (although another post says 9.3x64 but there are a bunch of German 9.3s out there; they loved that calibre, didn't they?) Second barrels in 9.3 whatever are lighter and faster to handle with the scope, in a nutshell. Fitted carrying case, scope, etc etc.

But the listing in post #2 does say that it's .450 Black Powder Express, not .450 NE. I doubt it's proofed for nitro but I'm not saying it couldn't be, or that it doesn't have new barrels but it doesn't seem like that based on what I can decipher. Better to err on the side of caution, though, and not destroy a fine example of late 19th century Austrian gunmaking. OP seems to be slightly under the mistaken idea that just putting smokeless powder into a .450 BPE shell = nitro express. It does not! It makes a recipe for potentially catastrophic failure!

To nie są te same kasety. Proszę ich nie mylić. Karabin może eksplodować. (Sorry for potentially terrible Polish.)

~~W.G.455

 

[rookhawk]

1884 rok, Doppel Express .450 Lang. Po elaboracji kordytem w 1898 roku = .450 NE.

This roughly translates: 1884, Double Express .450 Lang. After elaboration with cordite in 1898 = .450 NE.

Unfortunately, that isn't a true statement per se. It sounds like "elaboration" from the polish means it was "re-proofed" for Nitro cellulous powder after 1898. At what service pressure, only the subsequent proof marks would show, but probably at Nitro-For-Black identical pressures since the gun's barrels and stock were not built to endure NE force.

It's sort of a moot academic discussion at the asking price of 30,000 $, unless that price was Polish Zloty which translates to about $7150 USD.

 

[Kolekcjoner]

 

[Woodcarver]

Is the rifle in Poland?

 

[WebleyGreene455]

This roughly translates: 1884, Double Express .450 Lang. After elaboration with cordite in 1898 = .450 NE.

Unfortunately, that isn't a true statement per se. It sounds like "elaboration" from the polish means it was "re-proofed" for Nitro cellulous powder after 1898. At what service pressure, only the subsequent proof marks would show, but probably at Nitro-For-Black identical pressures since the gun's barrels and stock were not built to endure NE force.

It's sort of a moot academic discussion at the asking price of 30,000 $, unless that price was Polish Zloty which translates to about $7150 USD.

Yeah I translated that and figured there might be some misunderstanding about smokeless-for-black in a BPE versus the much later (and slightly longer-cased) NE, so I decided to try the main text too.

Kinda wonder what Herr Szegedy was going for with this rifle of his a century ago, though. Boar, I expect, and deer would be right for an upstanding gentleman of the Empire. Maybe if he was adventurous mountain sheep, lynx, maybe even bear? Were there bears in Austria-Hungary back then?