Emirates - Worst hunting airline experience ever

[enysse]

I've never brought detachable scope mounts. The pelican gun case is very nice! Im bringing a Cabelas this time it's cheaper and if it doesn't hold up it will be returned on return from Africa.

 

[JGRaider]

The Cabelas' case is a Boyt, I believe. I think you'll find it to be a good one. My neighbor buddy has one and it has worked well for him so far.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Sorry to get off the topic a bit, but using quick detach rings with your scopes and removing them from your rifles has come up. I agree with this regardless of the airline and who was at fault here. It's your hunt and if there's a way to monkey proof it and make the experience as good as it can be, then I think it's a good idea.

QD rings are certainly more expensive, but at least in the case of Warne I don't think it's really that cost prohibitive. I just looked on Midway's website, you can find 1" medium height matte finish Warned QD rings that use the same bases as the permanent style for $60. The same in permanent go for $32. Both prices are sale prices at the moment. For an extra $28, it seems worth it to me.

Permanent:
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1592119694/warne-1-maxima-permanent-attachable-weaver-style-rings

QD:
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1592163776/warne-1-maxima-quick-detachable-weaver-style-rings

 

[rookhawk]

@TTundra

First off and most importantly, I'm happy you had fun on your safari as that is the overarching hope every time one of us gets to go on a hunt.

Second, I'm not "siding" with Emirates because in spite of them being ranked #1 and #2 in the world year over year as a global airline (and not a single US carrier makes the top-1o mind you) they still are an airline. Airlines are inefficient. Their margins are so slim as to not give you a single piece of that satisfaction you had hoped for. So if I sound like I'm blaming you its only so far as I'd say you bought a scorpion as a pet and it stung you, is that really the scorpion's fault?

I'd add that there is no misgivings about your safari jacket you were selling. I didn't buy it because I got too fat to wear that size! This is a problem you won't yet be familiar with at age 30 but you may empathize at the age of 40 a bit more.

My apologies for misunderstanding your delay and loss of that flight. I misunderstood thinking you were busy trying to recoup your $15.00 insurance claim and missed your flight when it turns out that was not the case and you were misled by an agent. You should receive an apology for that from the carrier as that was poor form.

You never asserted that you were mistreated by "Muslims" but another post did allude to that. I was clarifying that point that it isn't a "Muslim" issue its an airport baggage issue.

A pelican case is simply not engineered to withstand the damage inflicted to it under these circumstances. I know that seems incredible because you and I could drive around the US hunting in every state with that sloshing around in the back of a pickup and be fine, but not on an airplane. They do not isolate guns too well with their open-cell foam interior and they do not handle being over-run by a multi-ton luggage truck. Americase would not endure that damage very well either but it would fare better and since its big and square it won't typically get run over in the first place. Might want to consider it. Americase's primary business is making airline containers that are used by Fedex and other carriers for the bodies of planes so they know about light, strong, reusable cases that can take some abuse. (and they cost the same as Pelican/Storm)

Lastly, I think you misunderstood my sarcasm. I want you to consider that when we go to the ticket counter at ORD we are nothing but scum to a vocal majority of those ticket and baggage handlers. We are in a hunting minority and in Chicago we are anathema to the morals of many at the US airports. There are some that would love nothing more than to prevent you from killing animals or would like to destroy your weapons as they represent your affluence. This mentality does not exist in Dubai or Africa so that is why I assure you that your damage happened on US soil. Often times the overhead conveyors at Terminal 5 (30'+ in the air) get jammed and oversized bags like your pelican will literally launch right off the side of an overhead conveyor. It is the most likely thing that could have happened short of the more likely active malice of an O'Hare baggage handler. I personally watched my rifles get thrown down the chute at O'Hare and cringed at the thought of that long roll down to Lower Level as it careened on its back wheels at alarming speed!

You can't change the world of aviation or hospitality. You won't find an airline that is up to the reasonable standards of customer service you anticipate for a coach fare price on any provider, in my opinion. (I flew almost a million miles in the back and never got an apology for anything including the time they literally friction burned a 14" hole through my bag and much of my poly-blend clothes!) All you can do is mitigate on your part by preparing as best you can and by taking personal initiative to overcome other's collective incompetence.

Hunt safe and shoot straight.

 

[JGRaider]

@TTundra

You never asserted that you were mistreated by "Muslims" but another post did allude to that. I was clarifying that point that it isn't a "Muslim" issue its an airport baggage issue.

A pelican case is simply not engineered to withstand the damage inflicted to it under these circumstances. I know that seems incredible because you and I could drive around the US hunting in every state with that sloshing around in the back of a pickup and be fine, but not on an airplane. They do not isolate guns too well with their open-cell foam interior and they do not handle being over-run by a multi-ton luggage truck. Americase would not endure that damage very well either but it would fare better and since its big and square it won't typically get run over in the first place. Might want to consider it. Americase's primary business is making airline containers that are used by Fedex and other carriers for the bodies of planes so they know about light, strong, reusable cases that can take some abuse. (and they cost the same as Pelican/Storm)


Hunt safe and shoot straight.

Also, I though the first time you made this comment about the Pelican case you were just ignorant. Now that you've said it a second time, well, it's a downright stupid thing to say, and you could not be more wrong.

 

[rookhawk]

I made the muslim comment and stand by it. They are the enemy, period.

Also, I though the first time you made this comment about the Pelican case you were just ignorant. Now that you've said it a second time, well, it's a downright stupid thing to say, and you could not be more wrong.

I'm not suggesting who should be your enemies because that is an opinion for you to figure out.

A FACT is that Muslims in UAE don't handle your baggage and they didn't break his gun. Emirate citizens do not do blue collar labor ever and import all that employee assistance from other nations, most often some Hindu kid from India that is willing to work non-stop without 5 prayer breaks a day and who doesn't require Fridays and Ramadan off. Therefore, don't use a baggage incident as the means to blame a race or religion as its like blaming Jews for the sinking of the titanic. (Iceberg, Goldberg...same difference)

Pelican/Storm is not the most durable case out there. Glad you like them if they work for you. I find injection molded nylon + hinges made out of finish nails + open cell foam to be a recipe for disaster. Your mileage may vary.

 

[JGRaider]

I don't give a ratsazzz who handles what in UAE/Emirates Air. It happened on their dime so Emirates is at fault the way I see it.

I have a neighbor friend who has been to Africa 31 times now, and he uses the Pelican 1750 with no issues. The outside is beat to "smitherines". I'm happy with the Americase BTW.

 

[TTundra]

@TTundra

First off and most importantly, I'm happy you had fun on your safari as that is the overarching hope every time one of us gets to go on a hunt.

Roohawk,

While I do appreciate your admittance of misunderstandings, the deeper meaning to the post is exposing how the handling of the situation went. Yes, damage happened while my luggage was in the care of Emirates airlines. Yes, Emirates personnel did prevent my family from making our connection, and my belief is they did so knowingly. What I wanted members here to see is what my experience was and the way in which the aftermath was handled. Quite frankly, the CS from Emirates airlines was "piss poor". Regardless of my seat or fare, or the Montreal convention, they had no regard for my issue, resolution, nor apology. The fact is they did try to cover it up in hopes it would simply go away. That is how I measure them, and maybe some readers here will have more information to base their travel plans on. I do appreciate your second post acknowledging your retractions and clarifications.

That being said, Pelican uses a PP polymer in their cases, Ive been to their facilities and have seen the 1750 tested at 3 meters and pass. It is an incredibly strong case and has worked on multiple airlines ventures and shipments. I wont hesitate to use it again. I will certainly not use Emirates airlines and will most likely use QD rings to prevent this again because of this one incident.

Lets please keep the convo on or about the airlines and the happenings. Lets not spin this into another debate....or at least start a new thread if that's the route. Thank you.

 

[rookhawk]

@TTundra

If you love your Pelican there is something you might want to look into. The pluck-cube open cell foam inside it is not a durable way to go. I've heard there is some lady that deals in Pelican/Storm in the Western suburbs that will make a custom-fit CLOSED CELL interior for a pelican for a charge of somewhere around $100. This is a vast improvement that would prevent shuffling, acceleration to a sudden stop and packed material compression in the case. Look into the Pelican resellers or call them and ask who this lady is if you have interest and I bet they'll put you in contact. Some of my friends used to use this option before they bought Americases.

The one big difference remaining unmitigated is that a pelican is not resistant to being physically run over by a truck which you intimated might have happened to you. It happened to a client and he had nothing but pieces of a shotgun stock inside and the rib was broken loose from his O/U. An Americase safari 2gun case looks a lot less like a gun case which may reduce the risk of baggage vandalism for a political statement. I've seen some hilarious camouflage put on gun cases before to throw off vandals. Musical instrument stickers and scuba diving stickers were probably my two favorites.

Your experience with another airline may be more to your liking from customer service, cost or amenities which is certainly your choice. One thing that won't be different is the same baggage handlers at the same airports will handle your guns and your rights to reimbursement will still be subject to Montreal convention.

Hope it works out better for you next time but lets be honest, if you do everything wrong it probably won't matter because lightning doesn't often strike twice and you've used up all your bad luck already.

 

[TTundra]

@TTundra

If you love your Pelican there is something you might want to look into. The pluck-cube open cell foam inside it is not a durable way to go. I've heard there is some lady that deals in Pelican/Storm in the Western suburbs that will make a custom-fit CLOSED CELL interior for a pelican for a charge of somewhere around $100. This is a vast improvement that would prevent shuffling, acceleration to a sudden stop and packed material compression in the case. Look into the Pelican resellers or call them and ask who this lady is if you have interest and I bet they'll put you in contact. Some of my friends used to use this option before they bought Americases.

The one big difference remaining unmitigated is that a pelican is not resistant to being physically run over by a truck which you intimated might have happened to you. It happened to a client and he had nothing but pieces of a shotgun stock inside and the rib was broken loose from his O/U. An Americase safari 2gun case looks a lot less like a gun case which may reduce the risk of baggage vandalism for a political statement. I've seen some hilarious camouflage put on gun cases before to throw off vandals. Musical instrument stickers and scuba diving stickers were probably my two favorites.

Your experience with another airline may be more to your liking from customer service, cost or amenities which is certainly your choice. One thing that won't be different is the same baggage handlers at the same airports will handle your guns and your rights to reimbursement will still be subject to Montreal convention.

Hope it works out better for you next time but lets be honest, if you do everything wrong it probably won't matter because lightning doesn't often strike twice and you've used up all your bad luck already.

I worked at Opticsplanet for 5 years, sold Americase, Pelican, Storm (vastly different even tough same umbrella company), Plano, SKB, etc. Know all companies well and their personnel. Visited most of them. I think I know a thing or two about these cases.

Definitely not damage from being run over, placement of rifles and type of damage sustained and limited to specific region, was definitely a drop or throw of sorts. "Run over by a truck" claim is of no importance here.

You hit it on the head, liking of customer service. I know many rifles are damaged each year, it sadly just happens. the handling post dam,age and avoidable delay is the issue. That is why I will fly Delta for future SA flights. Emirates airlines failed at handling this situation appropriately and again, the purpose of this thread was to share my experience with what happened and maybe more importantly, how it was handled.

 

[TTundra]

*****UPDATE 4:41PM CST******

Emirates airlines deleted another post on their facebook visitor wall of mine. This is the fourth post delete with no response. sadly, I'm no longer surprised by their action for inaction.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Just catching up on this thread and I'll add my .05. First, I don't go out of the country without some sort of AIG Travel Guard insurance policy (with enough coverage to cover my firearms) and a current Global Rescue membership. If for some reason I get jammed up for most of the usual reasons, at least the money end is covered and I'm reasonably certain my butt will get back home, dead or alive. The OP may want to consider both of these options for future trips. As an aside, four trips to Africa on five different air carriers with two rifles/scopes and multiple U.S. trips with an SKS case and never had an issue.
As far as the TSA locks on ANYTHING. Fuggeddaboutit! Those TSA locks can be cut in a nanosecond with a pair of wire cutters. Don't put ANYTHING of value in a regular checked bag and then just put a colored ty-wrap through the zipper.

 

[Erny]

Did not read all of the replies to the OP. I did fly Emeriates two years ago for a safari. Flew DFW - Dubai- Jburg and back with two rifles. I had no problems or issues of any kind. It was the best hunting airline experience I have had. I would not blame Emeriates for the damage to the rifle case. That could have been a baggage handler anywhere along the line. Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

[TTundra]

Did not read all of the replies to the OP. I did fly Emeriates two years ago for a safari. Flew DFW - Dubai- Jburg and back with two rifles. I had no problems or issues of any kind. It was the best hunting airline experience I have had. I would not blame Emeriates for the damage to the rifle case. That could have been a baggage handler anywhere along the line. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Thanks for your post Erny. I believe its as important if not more important to realize the treatment from Emirates afterward. Also, the damaged baggage was only 1 side of it. The avoidable delays, lack of response, and flat out deleting of inquires just means terrible customer service. Granted, this is juts my experience, and you might get better treatment if you're a frequent flier, but I want people to know how they treated 4 customers during and after they trip.

 

[rookhawk]

@TTundra I believe you had a terrible time on your flight but my question to you is what airline would you not stand the same chance or greater of having a horrible experience? By the numbers and all major travel reviews you've had the best so what now?

Emirates is one of the most profitable airlines in the world with a 15.8% operating income. 15.8% of your $431 round trip airfare from ORD to Jo'burg is $68.09. The remaining $700 of your round trip coach ticket is taxes, taxes, taxes and the fuel surcharge. Total ticket price a bit over $1100. Total profit $68.09.

Do you think Emirates has given you the kind of customer service you deserve for the assumed $68.09 of profit you provided them? I agree with you, they have not. They disrespected you. They didn't apologize to you. They screwed up your layover. They didn't accommodate your Montreal Convention claim delay.

The irony is that you actually didn't earn them $68.09, they lost money on you in cattle class because coach actually loses money. It loses money so they can break even on a $5,100 business class ticket. The tolerate breaking even on biz class so they can ultimately make a windfall on a $14,000 first class ticket. Thus is the nature of all the airlines, not just Emirates.

You got shafted by an airline and that sucks, really. The silver lining is you had an awesome hunt and got back home safe. Dwell on the good and give up on the demand for an apology from a multinational corporation that at best calculation made $68.09 off of you and in reality lost money on you. The #1 / #2 best rated airline in the world year over year has failed you and I suspect will continue to treat you disrespectfully like cattle because that's all we are when we get in the back of an aircraft on any airline. The best in coach isn't going to be very good.

You have to remember when your parents were your age a similar first class airline ticket to the $14,000 one today was $5800 in 1980 (adjusted to today's money that's $16,909.82 in today's dollars) and the coach ticket was $1400 ($4000 in today's money). Airlines had almost no taxes and fuel was really, really cheap. Profits were rampant. Customers were paying a lot more. Customer service was really good all the way around. It was also a flight that most people could not afford even in coach.

Times have changed and you just won't get that classic "This is 1980 and I'm flying on American Airlines" customer experience any more. They will delete your negative posts to their Facebook page repeatedly. They will hire less skilled people that botch things up. They will bog you down in bureaucracy trying to save a buck of that precious $68 they profited hauling you literally half way around the world and back for a price that costs less than what I paid a US carrier to move me from Seattle to Orlando roundtrip in the US just 15 years ago.

If I sound like I'm endorsing Emirates its about the same as when I endorse a politician. "Go with this one, they are only half as evil, shady and incompetent as the leading alternative".

 

[BWH]

I had a great experience with Emirates..... I can't imagine how or what would have to transpire to have damaged the gear. I had a super strong & rigid Pelican case with 4 master locks on it. So to get in & damage, you would have to literally cut off 4 locks or cut the case in half. At which point it would be obvious that the airline was responsible. Those cases are so strong.... you can drive a truck over & no jeopardy of damaging what is inside.

 

[enysse]

I agree, the profit margin on airlines is very slim today compared to years ago.

 

[JimP]

I agree, the profit margin on airlines is very slim today compared to years ago.

I don't know about that. Did you see very many airlines drop there prices when fuel went down low or remove their extra baggage fee?

I believe that I saw on a news cast on airlines flying out of Denver and their profits were through the roof. So to speak

 

[rookhawk]

The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

— Warren Buffett, annual letter to Berkshire Hathaway shareholders, February 2008

 

[enysse]

I think insurance and maintenance costs really cut into profits.