Emirates - Worst hunting airline experience ever

[rookhawk]

Sure. A scope is just a monocular. It is packed next to the binoculars. No reason why it can't be carried on.

 

[siml]

I rate Emirates as a great airline, my first choice when flying.

Glad you ended up having a great hunt.

 

[Hutch01]

Interesting thread. I appreciate all who contributed. Much was learned. Many thanks!

 

[mcdowelr]

I agree! Very interesting thread. I am going to consider the detachable mount for scopes. Does anyone have any recommendations or experience with this?

 

[Hank2211]

I agree! Very interesting thread. I am going to consider the detachable mount for scopes. Does anyone have any recommendations or experience with this?

I have experience with three types - Talley, Recknagel and EAW. All work just fine - I've never had a problem with the scope returning to zero - but I have a preference.

The Talley require that you loosen both the front and back of the scope, while the other two are "pivot" mounts. You loosen or push a lever on the back mount and the scope pivots off the front mount. In my experience, the pivot mounts are much faster than the Talley type to get on and off.

I have a decided preference for the pivot mounts, and between Recknagel and EAW, I vote for the EAW. Just easier to work with, and much faster to get on and off.

Price is more or less the same for all of these systems.

 

[Dinsdale]

Price is more or less the same for all of these systems.

Where can one find EAW swing mounts for similar to Talley's?

 

[Hank2211]

Where can one find EAW swing mounts for similar to Talley's?

I haven't looked at the price recently, or availability for that matter, although my local gunsmith in Calgary says he can get them. When I had a gun made by Kilimanjaro, they offered the Talley mounts and I asked for the EAW, which they provided at no extra cost.

 

[rookhawk]

I know that EAW pivots are about $700 installed by New England custom gun. (mounts, rings, bluing, installed)

Talley rings and the bases are less than $250 but installation would be at least $100.

Recknagel would be similar to the EAW.

Griffin and Howe Side mounts are $870 installed as a 4th option.

For many brands of rifle you can use Warne QD rings on your factory mounts. (Ruger #1s and Model 77s, Anything with a picatinny or weaver mount, etc.) They are about $85.

All of them will get you back to zero within the margin of error of 1 MOA at 100 yards or better. Would a 500 yard shooter find all of them acceptable? Probably not. Will you notice shooting off sticks at game in Africa? Probably not.

 

[Dinsdale]

I haven't looked at the price recently, or availability for that matter, although my local gunsmith in Calgary says he can get them. When I had a gun made by Kilimanjaro, they offered the Talley mounts and I asked for the EAW, which they provided at no extra cost.

Gotcha......

That was a good deal.

 

[rookhawk]

Gotcha......

That was a good deal.

His custom rifle builder effectively was making change for him 8 quarters for a dollar!

$220 Talley Mounts traded out for $500 EAW Pivots. $100 installation effort traded out for $250 installation effort, all at a wash with no upcharge?

@Hank2211 any stock recommendations for us all? I want the good fortune you've got!

 

[TTundra]

This will come as harsh medicine but I think your blame and facts are ALL discombobulated.

Not Harsh, because i find you very wrong on many points. see as follows. i will also preface this by saying Roohawk did try to make a deal with me for a jacket I was selling and I did not accept it, so there is a history there.


1.) It wasn't Emirates that damaged your luggage. Unlike lazy baggage handlers in the USA that like to make political statements with people's products, on the average Emirates people just want to work and get paid. Odds are it wasn't in Dubai and odds are it wasn't an Emirates employee.
TTundra- The case was left in charge of Emirates personnel from the TSA. As soon as its checked, it is in their charge.

2.) Those people in Dubai that want to work handling luggage are really grateful to have a job and they usually aren't Muslim nor are they Arabs. Most of the service industry is imported from India and other nations to take those jobs. They are delighted to have those jobs and get their paychecks. Blaming "muslims" as some other poster did is also an unlikely party in this debacle.
TTundra- Did I blame Muslims? No, I did not. Best to have the correct info if you are choosing to berate someone.


3.) There is no Emirati baggage union that allows workers to beat the crap out of baggage and get away with it. No, with Emirates whether you make $30 an hour handling bags in Dubai or you're a flight attendant bringing in $100,000 your career is on eggshells because they can you after 3-5 years for fresh blood. Hence, no ugly old fat flight attendants if you hadn't noticed? It is a total right to work situation and one screw up like actively abusing luggage and they'll fire their ass as there is a very long line of resumes for people all over the world dying to come work in Dubai for 2x-5x the wages.
TTundra- This is a great opinion of yours, but how does it relate? I see your defense of Emirates ins growing because you fly them. This statement does not mean that there was a disgruntled employee or am accident made.

4.) Your case sucks. It wasn't designed to repel baggage handler monkeys and I hear this story over and over again. I cover it in this thread http://www.africahunting.com/threads/a-good-gun-case-for-traveling-wanted.29303/page-2#post-274225 Same thing happened to a friend flying to south america for dove hunting with same gun case. It isn't going to resist being run over by a baggage truck.
TTundra- You're very wrong again. Ive flown with this case multiple times as well as had it shipped. Never have had any issues before. case isnt indestructable, but when damage happens, people should be responsible.

5.) Not only did you have the wrong case, you broke a cardinal rule. You ALWAYS keep your optics in quick detach mounts and on your person, never attached to your guns when traveling. It adds weight. It amplifies damage.
TTundra- You have a good point here. While I never have used QD rings on any hunt where I've travel with rifles nor shipped them, this one experience has taught me to always have the scope detached.

6.) Your baggage claim is subject to the Montreal Convention. The rules of that convention are adhered to by literally all civilized nations. Your time is worth more than bothering to file claims under that convention. Lets see, 35 pounds of rifles and they are paying what, $0.31 per pound now? Not even worth the trouble. Why would you file a claim and miss your flight when the airlines are going to pay you literally pennies per pound for damaged luggage? You get a $100,000 firearm policy back home to cover those things for cheap, you don't rely on the Montreal Convention.
TTundra- This point is moot. While in the care of an airline baggage was damaged, this should be resolved. beyond that, the responses, or lack there of, show poor customer service. I'm 30 years old, will be going back to Africa every 2-3 years, already have a 2018 trip booked. Emirates could have had a customer for life, not that they knew this, but you should always expect that in customer service.

7.) The miss-your-flight business is annoying, I grant you that. That is Dubai's version of TSA/FAA with stupid rules about closing the cabin door. You're familiar with stupid rules I trust, since we live in a country with more stupid aviation rules than any other? You can't berate the Emirates for enforcing a rule required by law that is beyond the jurisdiction of a corporation though, right?
TTundra- Again, very wrong. Did you even read my post of skim thru? My party was stopped by Emirates personnel whom informed us that they were calling in our tickets, this delay was about 5 minutes (4 tickets). We made it to the gate at 9:20, departing was 9:40. If the Emirates personnel hadn't stopped us, we would have made it. tell me again how this was not their fault?

I don't mean to berate you but your anger is totally misplaced. American baggage handlers surely taught you a lesson for your gun loving, safari hunting ways in my opinion. Even if it happened in Dubai it wasn't done by an Emirates employee and it wasn't done by one of those "Muslims" at any rate because citizens of the UAE don't handle baggage or do manual labor. You chose a marginal travel case in my opinion but ignoring that, your decision to fly with scopes attached was a critical flaw in your overall battle plan.

TTundra- I am very intrigued by your posts. "Gun loving, safari hunting" ways? Where does this generate from. How do you know me or my ways? You seem to be on quite the personal attack, do you have a connection with Emirates? I work in the shooting hunting industry, and am an avid hunter...and yet, it seems like you are attacking me for this? Again, is this because I did not want to take your deal on the jacket, nor wanted to purchase the firearms you wanted to sell? also, when did I blame, 'Muslims'?

Once again, I did not accept a deal from Roohawk for product, so I feel there maybe some misplaced rage there. Either way, my original post tells an experience I had with a airline that was vastly different from the other times I have flown with my firearms. And the pelican 1750 being cheap? lol, that actually did make me laugh out loud.

 

[TTundra]

****UPDATE****

Emirates has deleted a few of my posts on their facebook page. The posts were a skimmed down review of what I posted here. After a few deletes, I received a response saying to "PM them". 2 days now and have not received a reply to that message. I identified that I'm not seeking restitution at this point, just an apology as I told them my scope will be fixed free of charge. I did think they would issue at least an apology judging from how much they are bolstering their advertising and awareness in the US.

 

[JimP]

Where quick detachable mounts would be nice to have on a firearm there are those of us who just can't afford them. Granted there are some other there that don't cost a arm and a leg but they are more expensive than a solid mount. Also the same thing can be said about a second scope to carry around with you on your hunts. That extra $300+ just sitting there is a expense a lot of us just can't afford.

The only thing that I think that TTundra could of done different would of been to of packed his rifles differently to the point that there would of been no way for two of them to make contact with each other. But you never plan on having a case dropped out of a luggage bay on a airliner. All cases will fail, I haven't seen one out there that wont but it is the amount of abuse they will take before they fail and under normal or slightly rough handling all should protect what is in them from the gorillas that handle them.

 

[TTundra]

The only thing that I think that TTundra could of done different would of been to of packed his rifles differently to the point that there would of been no way for two of them to make contact with each other. But you never plan on having a case dropped out of a luggage bay on a airliner. All cases will fail, I haven't seen one out there that wont but it is the amount of abuse they will take before they fail and under normal or slightly rough handling all should protect what is in them from the gorillas that handle them.

Thats a valid point JimP. I had about 4" of the pelican foam between the two which I figured should have been enough as it was always fine on previous trips. But you're right, i didn't take into account gorilla handlers with the possibility of deliberate damage. Although I've seen some good damage from the UPS and FEDEX guys on the exterior, but never transfer to interior damage. Funny enough, I have a friend whom used to work for FEDEX who admitted to me that when they see gun cases, it "almost is a challenege" for them. Scary thoughts, right?

 

[TTundra]

If the case didn't open or crack it didn't fail.

I'd be interested to see how the foam was configured around the gun though.

No cracks, so case definitely didn't fail. Going back over the case you can certainly see on the bottom where it hit the ground and how hard it hit the ground. i work in product development and work with these materials daily, and know that this thing took a big fall and hit, or even multiple. I'll have to snap a picture of the foam. There was about 3.5-4" of the pelican PNP foam between the turret cap and the other rifle.

 

[TTundra]

I really don't hate to play lawyer, so here goes. There is no proof of where the damage happened, or how. A gun case could just as easily have gotten wedged in some automated baggage handling system and had substantial pressure applied to it as anything else, including baggage handlers. You have no proof who or what damaged the case, only that it was fine when you checked it, but not when you got it. That's one reason why these international treaties, like the Montreal Convention, limit liability.

Add to that the fact that you didn't report the problem right away, and you can surely see why the airline wouldn't want to accept liability. I'm not saying I don't believe you - far from it - but I am suggesting you could perhaps see the airline's side of it. I realize you were in the middle of nowhere, but you can also understand why contracts requiring notice don't have outs for people who find it difficult, even impossible, to give the notice (especially since here, it really wasn't impossible - you just were in a hurry to get on your way).

Overall, the lesson here, I think, is not that we shouldn't fly Emirates, at least not because they beat up baggage. (We shouldn't fly them because they don't allow trophies, but that's another thread). The lesson is we should be extremely careful and vigilant in how we pack our guns and optics. The Tuffpack and some of the Pelican cases allow you to put so much padding in that if the gun or scope was that badly damaged, it's likely the case would also be so damaged as to be useless, or at least the damage would be apparent as soon as you received it.

Just my perspective.

Thank you for your post. It was nice to see an opinion that from the other side that wasn't condescending or berating. I certainly did learn a lesson here and your third paragraph does sum it up nicely. Now I also know to inspect everything more carefully when picking up from SAPS and take the time to really go thru it there. I know this type of damage would have been hard to see there as shooting told the story, but my scopes will be in my carry on for my next trip over.

 

[TTundra]

Im not fully convinced Emirates is 100% culpable here.. It sounds like their customer service was a bit lacking and that they could have given you better consideration regarding being out in the bush with limited connectivity, etc for a week after the incident... but..

I've flown Emirates probably 30-40 times over the past 10 years.. Usually from Dulles to Dubai.. but have also flown with them regionally from Dubai to Qatar, Abu Dhabi to Bahrain, etc.. a few times..

I have transported TONS of fragile and/or sensitive equipment with them ranging from weapons parts and magazines to body armor and helmets to optics to IT gear, etc.. and never once had a single problem..

In fact, one of the reasons I have chosen to fly with them in the past is they have always treated me considerably better than United and Delta when traveling from the US to the UAE.. and while I have had bags go missing while traveling with KLM, Delta, United, American, and ANA over the years.. I've never had one fail to show up when traveling with Emirates..

In 2015 they were rated the #2 airline in the world by Travel and Leisure.. and #5 in the world by Skytrax.. Not a single US based carrier even made the top 10 list at either place..

As roohawk points out, baggage handlers do not work for the airlines.. they work for the airports and are usually contracted out by a third party..

While the airlines take responsibility for bags they take on from your point of departure to your point of entry.. they have very limited control over the what happens before and after your bag makes it into the baggage hold of the airplane..

If the baggage handlers damaged your stuff.. it could have just as easily been damaged if you flew Delta.. or anyone else.. the same handlers handle Delta bags at the airport in Dubai that handle Emirates bags..

The likelihood that your stuff was damaged while in the actual possession of Emirates is pretty low..

Very valid points and thank you for your post. Also, thank for your your opinion and presenting it in a professional and polite manner. While I know the handlers aren't emirates employees, there needs to be a certain level of responsibility taken accordingly and action. At the very least an appropriate CS response. The combination of both events, and especially the avoidable delay, just put it over the top for me.

 

[JGRaider]

To somehow charge TTundra as being at fault because he didn't use detachable mounts is ridiculous, but more ridiculous is stating that the Pelican rifle case "sucks". Even though I don't use one, they have proven to be great cases for traveling.

I've taken rifles several times to Africa, and a handful of times to Sonora, MX via plane and while the case has suffered the expected scratches and gouges, I've never had a scope broken while in transit.

 

[Eddie P]

And if they are so bad, why are they the standard for shipping stuff far more expensive and sensitive then firearms, by organisations with essentially unlimited budgets?

 

[TTundra]

And if they are so bad, why are they the standard for shipping stuff far more expensive and sensitive then firearms, by organisations with essentially unlimited budgets?

I know, you would think there would have been a better experience. baggage wise, delay wise, and CS wise. That being said, this is just my experience with them and the treatment that followed.