Elk at 688 yards with a 243

[0002S]

When you blow it up, clean it up and slow it down you can see that it was a spine shot. I don't know if the shooter was aiming for the spine, but the audio of the spotter is calling for behind the should for what I'm guessing was a double lung shot. Two inches lower and that shot was in no man's land.

Dead is dead, but I'm not convinced that was how the 'dead' was supposed to go.

 

[ChrisG]

Wow... 19 pages. Then again... This is like posting "9mm for bear defense" on the forum. Personal opinion... This is a very stupid video. and I don't think it's stupid because the guy (who may be very accomplished) was capable of killing an elk with a cartridge that most visiting hunters shouldn't bring elk hunting, at a range where no visiting hunter should be shooting at elk. No... Its stupid because it will foster a belief in every idiot who owns "one o' 'dem sniper ryfles" to try it himself, expecting the same results.

Can 500ish foot-lbs (a dubious metric to go by, but oh well) kill an elk!? Of course it can and airgun hunters have been doing it for decades with less. But all this video does is subliminally tell every immature, unseasoned hunter with an (insert newest/latest "Sniper wannabe" cartridge with stupid acronym-name here) "Hey! Its just as easy as the video made it look! Now you can do it too!"
That guys is going to be really bummed when he gut shoots a $6,500 elk and can't find it because they can't even tell exactly where it was standing from that distance...

Idiocy incarnate all for some views on you tube.

 

[Forrest Halley]

When you blow it up, clean it up and slow it down you can see that it was a spine shot. I don't know if the shooter was aiming for the spine, but the audio of the spotter is calling for behind the should for what I'm guessing was a double lung shot. Two inches lower and that shot was in no man's land.

Dead is dead, but I'm not convinced that was how the 'dead' was supposed to go.

"Dead by the time we get there"...the long range snipe-hunter's motto.

 

[colorado]

9mm for bear defense?

 

[Inline6]

Very interesting. She was not dialing, and after I closely examined the video, it looks like the turret cover is on. I ran some numbers using the highest possible g1 bc, at 3200fps, 100 grain bullet. The spotter told her to hold "Dead On, behind the shoulder". That means she would be over 1 foot high at 100 yards, 900 foot pounds on impact. The chart is attached. One "LUCKY" shot, or a bad range finder!

View attachment 567814

The scope was more than likely already dialed. It was a 105VLD which has a better BC than the 100gr you picked.

@Hififile324
Very generous is an understatement to say the least. Even 2,900 to 3,000 is being generous. The best I could ever get out of one with Max loads of H4350/2209 was a just over 2,800fps. Using H4831SC/2213sc Max loads didn't improve on it and gave worse accuracy.
This was out of 3 different 243s all with 22 inch barrels.
Bob

Bob, you need to get some better reamers. A 243 has no problem getting 3200fps with a 24" pipe. Have had several (6 different barrels) 6CM getting anywhere from 3150 to 3280 with 105s. Shot out 243s fast under 1k rounds moved to 6cm it is a smaller case I was again getting right at 1k rounds per barrel. Then moved to a 6XC I'm pushing a 105 to 3050-3080 and a 115 to 3k. Barrel life if better 1.5k to 1.8k. Moving to a 6GT now, much smaller case. Will get a 105 up to 3020-3050 (34.5gr of Varget) should get 2500ish rds out of a barrel.

 

[RETD16]

Some idiot writer, wrote that a 243 Win. was a top caliber for moose. Very irresponsible to put that in print IMHO…

 

[Aeuba470]

I'm a competitive long range shooter and hunter. I hunt with everything in my arsenal. Longbow, compound bow, muzzleloader, shotguns, double rifles, standard bolt and semiautomatic rifles, and yes my long range rifles as well. I shoot a lot and train for my long range, mostly prs, competitions. Inside of 800 is nothing. Hell I was shooting a 2" square at 591yd last week. The bullets used by people that long range hunt are proven to expand at lower velocity. Noone is taking an 800 yard shot on an animal if the conditions don't allow. They pass or if possible get closer. In the formentioned video looked like a high shoulder shot to me which is common for longer shots. As hunters we need to stick together or the anti-hunters will pick us apart. If you don't like the hunting method don't use it but by condemning it only hurts hunting. Just my two cents.

 

[ChrisG]

I'm a competitive long range shooter and hunter. I hunt with everything in my arsenal. Longbow, compound bow, muzzleloader, shotguns, double rifles, standard bolt and semiautomatic rifles, and yes my long range rifles as well. I shoot a lot and train for my long range, mostly prs, competitions. Inside of 800 is nothing. Hell I was shooting a 2" square at 591yd last week. The bullets used by people that long range hunt are proven to expand at lower velocity. Noone is taking an 800 yard shot on an animal if the conditions don't allow. They pass or if possible get closer. In the formentioned video looked like a high shoulder shot to me which is common for longer shots. As hunters we need to stick together or the anti-hunters will pick us apart. If you don't like the hunting method don't use it but by condemning it only hurts hunting. Just my two cents.

See, I would argue that:

A. "No one is taking an 800-yard shot on an animal if the conditions don't allow" is demonstrably false. More often than not, long-range shots are taken by inexperienced hunters and animals wounded and never followed up. You only see the sucesses on Youtube.

B. A 2" square at 591 yards is comparing apples to cow manure. At a shooting range where you have downrange windage flags, known topography, from a comfortable prone position, and a brightly contrasting 2" square that is not moving, Is about as far from actual hunting as you can get while still using a rifle. I dont shoot that far ever, mainly because I really dont care to, (not condemning those who like hitting targets at distance, all the power to you!) but given a heavy barreled .308 or 6.5(insert acronym here), I could probably be on steel at that range within a few shots. Good shooting technique is good shooting technique regardless of how far the target is.

C. Long-range wounding is EXACTLY what the anti-hunters are looking for! They WANT that ammunition to shut down hunters taking potshots at animals they have no hope of following up because they have absolutely no idea where the animal was even standing precisely when they fired from 1/3 of a mile away.

D. Condemning certain practices in hunting are what make hunting what it is! Ethical hunting! Not long-range-live-animal-target-practice. I would venture that a large number of wounded animals and complete misses go unreported because men are full of pride, and most won't admit they screwed up.

For varmint/pest control, where the goal is to simply remove some creature that is damaging or otherwise overrun, different story... but Elk are neither of those things.

 

[serdog]

9mm for bear defense?

View attachment 569834

Some Alaskans swear by the 9mm apparently
Personally I would rather have Pepper Spray(I've deployed it a charging Black Bear and it worked) on my hip over a light handgun (Carrying in even in the Bush is illegal in Canada now) but ideally a rifle(.30 cal +) or a 12 gauge on my back.

 

[freefall]

I don't know any Alaskans that swear by the 9mm for bear.

 

[serdog]

I don't know any Alaskans that swear by the 9mm for bear.

I keep hearing it so I said it because someone would bring it if I didn't but never first hand so I do assume its likely BS

 

[WAB]

I don't know any Alaskans that swear by the 9mm for bear.

Agreed, never knew anyone to carry a 9 for bear defense.

 

[Inline6]

See, I would argue that:

A. "No one is taking an 800-yard shot on an animal if the conditions don't allow" is demonstrably false. More often than not, long-range shots are taken by inexperienced hunters and animals wounded and never followed up. You only see the sucesses on Youtube.

B. A 2" square at 591 yards is comparing apples to cow manure. At a shooting range where you have downrange windage flags, known topography, from a comfortable prone position, and a brightly contrasting 2" square that is not moving, Is about as far from actual hunting as you can get while still using a rifle. I dont shoot that far ever, mainly because I really dont care to, (not condemning those who like hitting targets at distance, all the power to you!) but given a heavy barreled .308 or 6.5(insert acronym here), I could probably be on steel at that range within a few shots. Good shooting technique is good shooting technique regardless of how far the target is.

C. Long-range wounding is EXACTLY what the anti-hunters are looking for! They WANT that ammunition to shut down hunters taking potshots at animals they have no hope of following up because they have absolutely no idea where the animal was even standing precisely when they fired from 1/3 of a mile away.

D. Condemning certain practices in hunting are what make hunting what it is! Ethical hunting! Not long-range-live-animal-target-practice. I would venture that a large number of wounded animals and complete misses go unreported because men are full of pride, and most won't admit they screwed up.

For varmint/pest control, where the goal is to simply remove some creature that is damaging or otherwise overrun, different story... but Elk are neither of those things.

A. That happens all the time no matter if is 20 yards or 1000. Some people cannot shoot for many reasons.

B. That is a very narrow mindset. Why not push yourself and your equipment to the fullest? You obviously have never shot a PRS match. They have no wind flags at PRS/field style matches. You have on average 10-12 shots to take in 90 seconds. Targets could be in a troop line or one target. Could be prone could be off a vehicle could barricade. Point is it's not all off of your belly like you suggest.

C. It doesn't matter what we do Anti-hunters will always hate hunting. You can take that to the bank.

D. Ethical is the eye of each man. I have watched men take about God and church. Say grace and at the table find out they took game across a boarder they should not have and laughed about it. I will bet you whatever you want more goes unreported at close range than long. I can't tell you how many gut shot animals I have personally witnessed much less watching YouTube. I'm talking about bows and rifles less than 100 yards. Where is the uproar with that? Is it okay to shoot an animal in the gut at 100 and in? If you intend to lecture then why not include them too. Other wise people should really do some self-reflecting. We hunt we make mistakes we hopefully learn from that and become more proficient.

You are also saying varmints are living Targets with your last statement. You don't think the anti-hunters are going to use that for ammunition? Wake up their is no reasoning with unreasonable people. You can't have it both ways.

Fact of the mater is hunting is not perfect, things go wrong. How we deal with those things is what shows character. I wish I could say I was perfect with every shot. I have yet to meet a hunter that has not messed up in some way.

 

[freefall]

Au contraire. It does matter what we do. I hate people that shoot at animals over 1/4 mile away. I also hate people who gut-shoot animals at whatever range. It just seems that the frequency of poor shooting increases with range.
Many years ago, I could hit a 1 qt oil bottle with my .357 at 100 yds about 70% of the time. That doesn't mean I shot at game animals with it at 100 yds.
You can say whatever you want, but I think extreme long range hunting is irresponsible at best, and if I ran the zoo it would be criminal.

 

[375Ruger416]

I actually think ethical hunting distances can be what many people consider long range. That said, it depends on ability, conditions, game behaviour, and terminal velocity/performance of the cartridge and projectile.

That said, a 243 is adequate elk medicine at 200 yds or less IMO. A 600+ yard shot is outside the bounds. It’s really an expert cartridge for anything bigger than Deer. At that distance, even under ideal conditions good choices start at the 6.8 Western and go up using heavy for caliber bullets. A 6 mm doesn’t have adequate energy, momentum, frontal diameter for anything bigger than coyotes at that kind of range.

 

[WAB]

Au contraire. It does matter what we do. I hate people that shoot at animals over 1/4 mile away. I also hate people who gut-shoot animals at whatever range. It just seems that the frequency of poor shooting increases with range.
Many years ago, I could hit a 1 qt oil bottle with my .357 at 100 yds about 70% of the time. That doesn't mean I shot at game animals with it at 100 yds.
You can say whatever you want, but I think extreme long range hunting is irresponsible at best, and if I ran the zoo it would be criminal.

Hate is a strong word. Please know that some
hunts demand long range shooting. You’re ruling out some pretty amazing hunts and
Vilifying some pretty good hunters.

 

[0002S]

The caliber and shot isn't a matter can. It's a matter of should.

/end

Not my dime on that hunt. To each their own.

 

[colorado]

688 yards is too close. She should've let it move out a bit further.

 

[freefall]

Hate is a strong word. Please know that some
hunts demand long range shooting. You’re ruling out some pretty amazing hunts and
Vilifying some pretty good hunters.

You introduced the hate word, I ru-used it for effect.

 

[WAB]

You introduced the hate word, I ru-used it for effect.

I have no idea what you are talking about?!