Elk at 688 yards with a 243

[stk]

I understand what you're saying. For me it's the "moving" crosshairs from anything other than a benchrest position to really ANY distance? The further away the target is and with more magnification, it takes less and less movement to have the crosshairs MOVE while aiming at the target? Now do the same on sticks?

Yea, absolutely. Much more margin for error at 60 yards than 600. A twitch that moves you two inches at 60 yards moves you almost two feet at 600. The movement is the same at 600 whether you have a 10x or 25x scope, though, and the movement seems much more pronounced and distracting with a 25x.

High power scopes are great for shooting off benches and bad for shooting in the field.

 

[Inline6]

24”

Sweet! In a recent match we transition from 24" to 36" at the 600 yard mark (the 550 yard - 600 yards is where people started dropping out, had to hit to move on). Know you are collecting data, I would like to make a suggestion. Hang a 3" target on the free side. Make that your cold bore shot. The smaller the target you can smack, the more confidence you will build. It will feel uncomfortable at first, it will make you concentrate on everything involved to make that impact.

Great shooting and keep up the good work!

 

[lawrence_court]

Trying to get some objectivity in the debate, it would seem logical that the maximum ethical range is determined by two factors: can the shooter consistently hit a vitals size target, and does the projectile remain lethal at that range. If both factors are positive, then a shot is arguably ethical.

The only thing I see wrong with her shot is that the .243 is likely carrying a maxmimum of 700 ft lbs at that range. Which is at least 300 ft lbs below where it needs to be for cow elk.

It seems that hunters always remember their closest encounter with a game animal, and they always remember their longest clean shot. As humans, we love the extremes of our experiences, and so I understand the joy of eyeballing an animal and also the joy of dropping an animal at long range.

 

[WAB]

Sweet! In a recent match we transition from 24" to 36" at the 600 yard mark (the 550 yard - 600 yards is where people started dropping out, had to hit to move on). Know you are collecting data, I would like to make a suggestion. Hang a 3" target on the free side. Make that your cold bore shot. The smaller the target you can smack, the more confidence you will build. It will feel uncomfortable at first, it will make you concentrate on everything involved to make that impact.

Great shooting and keep up the good work!

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I need to follow you to the range one day!

 

[Inline6]

Trying to get some objectivity in the debate, it would seem logical that the maximum ethical range is determined by two factors: can the shooter consistently hit a vitals size target, and does the projectile remain lethal at that range. If both factors are positive, then a shot is arguably ethical.

The only thing I see wrong with her shot is that the .243 is likely carrying a maxmimum of 700 ft lbs at that range. Which is at least 300 ft lbs below where it needs to be for cow elk.

It seems that hunters always remember their closest encounter with a game animal, and they always remember their longest clean shot. As humans, we love the extremes of our experiences, and so I understand the joy of eyeballing an animal and also the joy of dropping an animal at long range.

Running the numbers at 3250 it's 1054#. I have ran some of my 243s up over 3300. Not sure what the load was, even at 3150 it 977.

 

[WAB]

Yea, absolutely. Much more margin for error at 60 yards than 600. A twitch that moves you two inches at 60 yards moves you almost two feet at 600. The movement is the same at 600 whether you have a 10x or 25x scope, though, and the movement seems much more pronounced and distracting with a 25x.

High power scopes are great for shooting off benches and bad for shooting in the field.

I think stock fit/eye alignment and experience have a lot to do with it. I can acquire a target very quickly with higher magnification, but I am totally anal on stock fit and scope
Mounting for perfect eye alignment. I also acquire the target with both eyes open.

 

[Inline6]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I need to follow you to the range one day!

You have an open invitation!

Disclaimer:

I am not responsible for any negative impact that may occur to your bank account due to the introduction of new toys.

 

[stk]

I think stock fit/eye alignment and experience have a lot to do with it. I can acquire a target very quickly with higher magnification, but I am totally anal on stock fit and scope
Mounting for perfect eye alignment. I also acquire the target with both eyes open.

No doubt. Something I need to better understand. I mount scopes wherever seems right when I first put it on…I don’t give much thought or make any real adjustments to get it right. I do appreciate adjustable stocks for their ability to really make you feel locked in behind a rifle. I rarely feel that way with my hunting rifles.

 

[Nevada Mike]

The key to success in hunting is probably to spend more time learning the game and terrain than learning about your firearm. There is a multiplier factor in hunting knowledge that cannot be realized in any other way.

Starting out with tools inadequate for the job is either stupidity or arrogance. A knowledgeable hunter starts out with the correct tool to get the job done under the conditions extant.

A smart person will know his game and know his firearm.

 

[Rich s]

Have been to the range when one group is struggling to hit a 10” amauture plate at 400 yards of a rest on a concrete bench and someone shows up and grabs there 22 creed coyote gun out of the truck and puts there swagger bipod on and runs the pro plates 2”x200 3”x300 4”at 400 5”x500 6”x600 yards 1for 1 setting on there ass on the firing line. What seems impossible and unethical to one might be a chip shot to another that’s put in the time and work.

 

[TXhunter65]

When our progeny no longer enjoy the rights we cherish we'll need but a mirror to find the culprit. Keep tearin em down boys. The anti's don’t know the difference between a .243 and a 50 BMG. The lady made a hell of a shot.

For some of those eagle-eyed snipers who jumped to ethics and what is and isn't hunting, the HUNTER was a woman not a man. Funny, judgements are made on ethical shot distances when some can’t tell the difference between a man and a woman at 5 yards but are quick to pull the trigger on their opinions knowing literally zero information about the hunt, the hunter, or the conditions that lead to the shot taken.

Bottom line, if there’s a key stroker on here who does not have a single shot they regret or looking back with an honest heart can’t say they shouldn’t have taken, they haven’t hunted long, or they’re just liars.

If this hunter regrets her shot, we’ll likely never know, but she took it, and the result was perfect. There’s been a lot of bloviating about “if’s” and “but’s”, if they were candies and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Have been to the range when one group is struggling to hit a 10” amauture plate at 400 yards of a rest on a concrete bench and someone shows up and grabs there 22 creed coyote gun out of the truck and puts there swagger bipod on and runs the pro plates 2”x200 3”x300 4”at 400 5”x500 6”x600 yards 1for 1 setting on there ass on the firing line. What seems impossible and unethical to one might be a chip shot to another that’s put in the time and work.

Now have the 22 Creedmoor guy try it from sticks (STANDING BiPod to make it interesting) with a 3.5x10 non BDC Vortex scope? And then hand him a .300 or .338WM factory HUNTING rifle and try again....from the same sticks using the same scope. Maybe he can shoot the same with the much higher recoil or maybe he can't? We'll need to see the video. LOL

 

[Rich s]

He can do it and has done it with a 7 saum. But if continued time after time skills will diminish with bad habits and knowing subconsciously that he’s going to get punished with every trigger pull.
Exactly the reason John had that lady and his step son start out with a 243. To learn to shoot.
There’s a reason nobody shoots a large caliber under the 3,200 fps rule in a prs competition. No one has been able to win shooting a large caliber higher bc rifle over the course of a 100 or 200 rounds. Not one time has someone showed up with a 300 Norma shooting a 200+ gr bullet at 3,000 fps + and beat a guy shooting a 6 dasher or a 6 bra at 2,800 shooting a 105 gr vld.
Everyone talks shot placement. There you go. You heavy boomers that aren’t recoil sensitive. Go to a prs match and prove me wrong.

 

[CoElkHunter]

When our progeny no longer enjoy the rights we cherish we'll need but a mirror to find the culprit. Keep tearin em down boys. The anti's don’t know the difference between a .243 and a 50 BMG. The lady made a hell of a shot.

For some of those eagle-eyed snipers who jumped to ethics and what is and isn't hunting, the HUNTER was a woman not a man. Funny, judgements are made on ethical shot distances when some can’t tell the difference between a man and a woman at 5 yards but are quick to pull the trigger on their opinions knowing literally zero information about the hunt, the hunter, or the conditions that lead to the shot taken.

Bottom line, if there’s a key stroker on here who does not have a single shot they regret or looking back with an honest heart can’t say they shouldn’t have taken, they haven’t hunted long, or they’re just liars.

If this hunter regrets her shot, we’ll likely never know, but she took it, and the result was perfect. There’s been a lot of bloviating about “if’s” and “but’s”, if they were candies and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.

I agree in part, but how do YOU know the HUNTER in the video WAS/IS a woman? I don't know her/him personally. Do you? I mean it's a video? At 5 yards, the "woman" on the Bud Light can looked to ME like a woman, but in reality, she IS a man (transgender)? Finally, I would take a massively BRAKED .50BMG on a tripod over a .243 WINCHESTER in the shot on the elk at that distance in the video. I still probably wouldn't have hit it, but I would have had more fun trying than with a .243 WINCHESTER. LOL

 

[JimP]

Personally, I really don't have a problem with the range that the elk was shot at.

My big problem is doing it with a 243 and a light bullet.

I've seen elk travel miles with a good hit from a 7mm on up to 338's. It just wasn't a dead right there shot. That 243 could have felt like a bee sting if the shot was just a couple inches off or caused a sore shoulder for a while.

 

[Rich s]

Stir the pot. Most 50 big loads are steel core. Strictly for long range punch through steel loads. Like going through the block of an engine. Like anti tank rounds. The 105 gr Berger in the 243 was much more suitable for the task and taking the elk without wounding than the 50 bmg

 

[Inline6]

Now have the 22 Creedmoor guy try it from sticks (STANDING BiPod to make it interesting) with a 3.5x10 non BDC Vortex scope? And then hand him a .300 or .338WM factory HUNTING rifle and try again....from the same sticks using the same scope. Maybe he can shoot the same with the much higher recoil or maybe he can't? We'll need to see the video. LOL

Why?
Almost all my scope are FFP, have turrets, and 30mm-34mm. Why would I limit myself on my choice of gear? Even a rifle, I'm shooting a 7mm or less and running a suppressor. My rifles are heavy, most would not like the weight. A 10# rifle feels light when your 22lr is 20#s.

When I was 16, I purchased a Browning A bolt Medallion. I worked all summer throwing hay to buy that rifle and scope. It was chambered in 300WM, at the time the best shooter I knew was my uncle. I asked him to shoot it, make sure it was sighted in. He said son, I ain't beating myself up shooting that damn thing. You bought it you shoot it. At 16 my feelings were hurt, I did not understand it. As an adult I get it, you don't need the biggest round to accomplish a job of killing an animal. I educated myself on reloading and at 200 yards I was cloverleafing 3 rounds with that rifle. That rifle was an educational tool for myself. One of the last deer I took with that rifle (20 years ago) was 125 yards, I shot it in the neck. I thought to myself why am I beating myself up with this when a 243 would do the same thing.

For 300 yards and in, a 308, 7 08, 6.5CM, 260 would be adequate. All those rounds are extremely accurate, you have a high probability of practicing with them because you are not beating yourself up. Everyone has the right to shoot what they want, I understand why people want the magnum calibers, I'll just say my boys have killed Elk, deer, and hogs with 6mm. Bullet placement is key.

 

[CoElkHunter]

He can do it and has done it with a 7 saum. But if continued time after time skills will diminish with bad habits and knowing subconsciously that he’s going to get punished with every trigger pull.
Exactly the reason John had that lady and his step son start out with a 243. To learn to shoot.
There’s a reason nobody shoots a large caliber under the 3,200 fps rule in a prs competition. No one has been able to win shooting a large caliber higher bc rifle over the course of a 100 or 200 rounds. Not one time has someone showed up with a 300 Norma shooting a 200+ gr bullet at 3,000 fps + and beat a guy shooting a 6 dasher or a 6 bra at 2,800 shooting a 105 gr vld.
Everyone talks shot placement. There you go. You heavy boomers that aren’t recoil sensitive. Go to a prs match and prove me wrong.

Well, I've never shot ANYTHING in competition or know anything about it, but seems to me, the shooters using heavier recoiling rifles should get a "handicap" in their scoring and muzzle energy should be calculated as well into the handicap portion of it. Competition shotgun trap shooters using a .410ga aren't lumped in with the 12ga. shooters? You can't compare apples to watermelons with rifle cartridges in a competition? If they don't have separate cartridge classes with regards to recoil, the whole process becomes a sham for You Tubers or reformed NFL football fans to watch. LOL

 

[Woodcarver]

This person may be a good shot but he is a horrible hunter. First, It isn't that hard to get closer than 600 yards to any animal. First shooting something that big with a .243 is not ethical at any yardage. The bullet isn't designed for such a tough animal. And, as others have said the chances of wounding it are above 90%. And following up an animal like an elk after a shot with such a small bullet is almost a guarantee for failure. Decide if you want to be a good shooter or an ethical hunter. They aren't the same.

And having been a guide for elk it sickens me to have to try and find an animal after a bad shot. No guide likes it.

One more thing, this is what gives hunters a bad rap.

There have been several times that I couldn't have closed that kind of distance, and been unlikely to have a shot if I did. And I often describe myself as a bowhunter that has to use a rifle (shoulder won't let me draw my bow anymore). But I do agree that the 243 is questionable beyond 200yds on an elk.
I should add, I've only taken a handful of shots on game beyond 300yds, the longest was 442yds on an antelope.
As to the bad rap, that occurs because we hunt; with any weapon, for any animal.

A lot these long range shots have to deal with where you hunt for elk out west.

I have hunted areas where you either have a 400+ yard shot or a 10 yard shot, your choice. The woods are so thick that most hunters prefer the longer cross canyon shots where they can scan a large amount of woods rather than trying to tiptoe through the brush only hearing the animals as they are running away.

I was muzzle loader deer hunting one year and was up on a hill where my partner could watch me from camp. When I got back he asked me why I hadn't shot a buck that was just 20 or 30 yards below me. He said that he had a clear shot at 500 yards. I just told him that I couldn't see 10 yards much less 20-30 yards where the deer was.

This was typical when I hunted Ft Carson years ago. Looking at game on the next hill was easy, seeing it on the one I was standing, it had to be very close. If we had gotten my 300WM registered on post (she can't handle the recoil), rather than the 270Win, my longest shot on an elk would have been 720yds. 7am and dead calm, I could have hit him where I wanted with that 130gr bullet, but didn't take the shot because I did not think the bullet would be adequate at that distance. The 180gr from the 300WM would have, and I've shot both enough at distance to know I could have made that shot, in those conditions. If there had been any breeze, I wouldn't consider it with either caliber.

I’ve never seen a wild groundhog. We don’t have them here or probably anywhere here in the West? Bet Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen has them in OZ and kills them with his .25 Samurai? LOL

We have marmots. Let's see some of these guys come out here and climb to timberline to whack the mountain version of the groundhog

 

[CoElkHunter]

Stir the pot. Most 50 big loads are steel core. Strictly for long range punch through steel loads. Like going through the block of an engine. Like anti tank rounds. The 105 gr Berger in the 243 was much more suitable for the task and taking the elk without wounding than the 50 bmg

Nevermind then. If I WERE to ever gain the competence and confidence in longer distance marksmanship on a game animal, I would use my braked .300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM or my unbraked .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM as other than a .308, .270 or .25-06, that's all I have for longer range shooting and there ain't no more.