If one were to hit a significant branch of the pulmonary arteries it could certainly happen.
DEWALD, oh, come on - are you really taking offense to my Post? did you miss the kidding/humorous way I commented on your knowledge and miss that it was in jest? I openly deferred to your medical knowledge as well above my own. Maybe they don’t crack many jokes in the ER…. Or maybe I’m just Not very funny ? (Possible). I just assumed that expert on Elephant anatomy would also have a “thick skin”. Hopefully there is no remaining trauma from my Post - I certainly did Not intend there to be.
The issue is not about ability, its about „going wrong“! How many animals are injured and lost? Watching this „brave“ guys hunting for african dangerous game with bows there is always a PH with lots of Hellfire out of a big game rifle strolling around in the background for backup if the going gets tough!
Says someone, who lives in a nice house with supermarket and medic centre next door!
ROSCH, obviously this thread & Post got you emotional and I think I get your point - Bow’s are inadequate for some game - Elephants being one. If you re read my Post, I never said ”Nature is cruel” - because Nature is neither cruel or kind, it is what it is —- the natural order of things. I did imply that Hunters should Not be cruel and by that I mean Not inflict unnecessary pain or suffering. I think that almost all hunting kills results in some pain to the animal but I also think that it is less then most deaths that wild animals will incur at some point. For me, taking an Elephant with either a bow or a rifle, as long as it’s legal, is acceptable and up to the Hunter and their PH to decide. Proper equipment, training, and skill should be evident before engaging in this type of hunt —- but that also applies to all hunting. I must say that I don’t agree with your comments regarding “this Forum is for butchers…etc.” I’ve been on here many times the past few months and am always impressed with the depth and quality of information posted and discussed - also the general acceptance of differing points of view and the civility of “debates”. Your thoughts may differ but those are mine.
Your thoughts are Yours… for sure. But they aren’t and do affect other people the moment You make it puplic!
ROSCH, you cite several points and I respect “tradition” and also the “feeling the African spirit” that you mention. I’m am Bow hunter as well as rifle, shotgun and trapper but I have No desire to hunt Elephant with a bow - a rifle would be challenge enough for me. I just can’t condemn others for doing so and even the “worst case scenarios“ you cite above (wounded “trample afterwards a whole village to death”) could happen with a rifle wounded elephant or even a rogue Bull. I do understand your previous point that Bow Hunters, always backed up with a PH & rifle, couldn’t complete their hunt with out the protection of that PH & rifle - but that applies to most rifle elephant hunts too. I am Not a minimalist - and don't try to see how “small a rifle” I can use to get the job done, I always want adequate to even slightly larger then needed. I don’t think you and I hunt much differently but I think I might tolerate hunters that hunt “differently then me” more then you do. Anyway, we may not agree and doubtful either of our opinions will change…thats OK
Sorry friend, your logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny. According to you, the ONLY way to hunt is the one that is the MOST lethal... ie, as an example a .500 Nitro... all animals MUST be killed with a .500 Nitro in order for it to be humane... No? So a .450 Nitro is OK? How about a .416 Rigby? What about .375 H&H? Oh, I see... there appears to be a sliding scale on what is humane and ethical. Guess what, archery equipment is on that scale. Here is the caveat to every single tool chosen to harvest game; the hunter must recognize the limitations of their equipment, the hunter must recognize their own limitations, the hunter must endeavor to insure that their equipment is in perfect working order, the hunter must practice with their equipment and know it's performance intimately, the hunter MUST say within these limitations in the field and recognize when circumstances are NOT ideal to make a humane one shot kill. The hunter must back off when circumstances or their own emotions make a successful shot unlikely. Notice I said "HUNTER" each time... we are all hunters, we should ALL respect each other and the game we pursue. We should resist projecting our BIASES on each other. We could also educate ourselves on the choices other hunters make BEFORE criticizing. For example, many rifle hunters have biases towards bowhunters, largely because they do not understand the mechanisms by which an arrow causes death, and how truly lethal it is. Most firearms users do not understand the concept of energy as it relates to archery. In short, bullets are made and designed to DUMP energy on target causing massive shock and tissue damage, arrows on the other hand are designed to retain energy and to continue slicing on a straight path slicing tissue and arteries to inflict massive hemorrhage. Both bullets and arrows kill cleanly, efficiently and ethically. You wouldn't use a .22 LR for Cape Buffalo, and you wouldn't use a 40 pound recurve with 300 grain arrows either. The right tool for the right job, employed in the right manner. Over everything else, respect for our fellow sportsmen. We police ourselves when we see something unethical... just be sure it isn't just your own bias.
JIM, according to a renowned archer & hunter from the 1930s “Howard Hill” he is credited in his book “Hunting the Hard Way” as being the first to kill an Elephant with a bow “without use of poison arrows”. I believe he accomplished this in the early 1950s and was drawing a 175 lb long bow. There is also some very old & poor video of this hunt as well as some recent controversy claiming that the Elephant may have been previously wounded by a rifle and “finished off” by Howard and his bow…not sure what the true full story is and likely neither is anyone else. But, he was an exceptional archer - skilled beyond almost anyone before or since and was revered by a more recent Archer & trick shooter “Byron Furguson“.
Tokoloshe, we might just admire the same archers?? I grew up hearing and reading about Howard Hill
Was also a small elephant.....
I am well aware of that......
Lucask< interesting information - where did you get these details? I have Howard Hills book “Hunting the Hard Way” and the was a last minute addendum made just before publication to acknowledge his Elephant - apparently it was
