Double vs Bolt .. Speed/Accuracy

[Kevin Peacocke]

Factor in reliability and the double will win all the way to eternity. Bolt actions give issues, I see it on our big bore shoots time after time, there is always an excuse, a reason, but bet your bottom dollar there is always a fail.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think in order to qualify for the mad minute, they have to be able to hit the target with each shot. Otherwise its just blind shooting as fast as possible.

@ChrisG
From memory the made minute was 30 shots in one minute and had to hit a dinner plate size target at 300yds from the standing position.
Reloading was done with 5 round stripper clips. This was first done by Sgt Snoxall.
Bob

 

[Altitude sickness]

Who posted the results of the Zim PH exam rifle shoot stage. Or are they all required to use a magazine rifle

 

[IvW]

I don’t think the shooter with the bolt really cared if he won or lost. However, I disagree with you on running a bolt gun from your shoulder. The biggest advantage to taking it off your shoulder is you’ll never short cycle or weak cycle the bolt. I learned a long time ago I could shoot better at clays with a shotgun if the gun wasn’t already on my shoulder and I pull it up for the shot. I do the same with my rifles for follow up shots. I’ve had numerous PHs comment on my fast follow up shots. It depends on the person. I have no interest in learning to shoot with rifle staying on my shoulder to reload but think I’m considerably faster than most.

You cannot short stroke when using the palm technique....

 

[IvW]

At our Big Game Rifle Club match a few months back, one of the events was: start with empty rifle, load and fire 2, load and fire 2 more. Scored for accuracy and time (and energy).

A healthy mix of double and magazine rifles were used by over 30 participants. It was an interesting anecdote that the winner used a magazine rifle. Not a scientifically valid test - but highlights that individual skill is probably the key factor.

Thats why I stopped partisipating in our big bore shoots....choose your weapon and compete....
If my bolt takes 4, 5 or 6 thats the way I should start....rather simple....

And yes I prefer bolt action in appropriate caliber for dg....not a double...

 

[ChrisG]

Actually, If we want to get really into the weeds, Kevin Robertson stated that in the shooting stage of the PH exams, the fastest he has ever seen was done by a guy with a single shot .375H&H.

 

[IvW]

Actually, If we want to get really into the weeds, Kevin Robertson stated that in the shooting stage of the PH exams, the fastest he has ever seen was done by a guy with a single shot .375H&H.

The record is held by a Ruger Nr.1 in 416 Rigby.....

 

[Forrest Halley]

You cannot short stroke when using the palm technique....

Exactly. People don't have a clue how to run the bolt action because they never shot them at speed. They're always worried about getting the brass back.

Thats why I stopped partisipating in our big bore shoots....choose your weapon and compete....
If my bolt takes 4, 5 or 6 thats the way I should start....rather simple....

And yes I prefer bolt action in appropriate caliber for dg....not a double...

But wait, we're supposed to castrate the competition so the double can keep up and those people that spent so much can still feel good about themselves... Put in a handicap ramp so we can have a paraplegic hurdles event while we're at it.

Actually, If we want to get really into the weeds, Kevin Robertson stated that in the shooting stage of the PH exams, the fastest he has ever seen was done by a guy with a single shot .375H&H.

Something necked down with a pointy bullet will always load faster than a straight wall with a big round nose.

The record is held by a Ruger Nr.1 in 416 Rigby.....

Sounds about right for speed of loading, but that's a large bill in recoil. Surprised it wasn't a .375. Mine shoots and loads very quickly.

 

[Philip Glass]

Main point here is the comment that BOTH of the bolt guns they used Jammed when fired rapidly. Proves my point of taking your DG gun to the range and try to wear it out before a true DG hunt.

 

[BeeMaa]

Factor in reliability and the double will win all the way to eternity. Bolt actions give issues, I see it on our big bore shoots time after time, there is always an excuse, a reason, but bet your bottom dollar there is always a fail.

Right...because double rifles never double (both barrels at once). It just doesn't happen. LOL.

If it's mechanical...it can fail and that is a fact.

However I won't get into a debate as to how many DR's develop or are sold with faulty actions vs how many bolt actions in DG calibers have feeding issues out of the box. It wouldn't even be apples to asparagus. Suffice to say they each have their strong points...and weak points as well.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Factor in reliability and the double will win all the way to eternity. Bolt actions give issues, I see it on our big bore shoots time after time, there is always an excuse, a reason, but bet your bottom dollar there is always a fail.

Never trust a man that gets rid of a perfectly good Ruger #1 .375H&H...
Doubles also never spring open unintentionally, are kind to brass and always have perfectly reamed chambers too...

 

[R eight]

I am with @BeeMaa, and I suspect @saswart has it correct. Two rounds in a bolt rifle against a double with a reload is a manufactured situation to test. With four rounds against two, I would anticipate two equally skilled shooters would find the double would be quicker on the first two rounds and slower to get off four.

A ringer would a R8. I am pretty confident that I could at least tie a double with it for the first two rounds and easily beat 4.

I reckon you’re probably correct .

Just for the hell of it when I collect my BB 97 I’ll give this a test.

I’ll shoot 4 aimed shots from each rifle at an identical target at 25 meters , with iron sights on both. One will be an R8 in 9.3 x62 with PPU factory ammunition and the other my Blaser O/U in 9.3 x74R using PPU factory ammunition.

Should be interesting. Won’t prove anything either way. But I’m just curious.

Maybe there are a few others here who could do something similar and post up their results.

As an after thought….I’ll also give the Rigby in 375 H&H a run with PPU factory ammunition. It’s a tad slower than the R8 especially with the magnum length action. But she goes alright. I keep her on the shoulder when working the bolt. She’s lovely to shoot. I shoot a competition here where you fire 8 shots at 25 meters within 35 or 36 seconds. Starting with a max of 4 rounds in the gun (I have no idea how that rule came to be) so I have to reload 4. 9 times out of 10 I can do it with a few seconds to spare. All shots on target. Occasionally I drop ( as in a physically drop a cartridge on the ground) and that will bugger up my day.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Never trust a man that gets rid of a perfectly good Ruger #1 .375H&H...
Doubles also never spring open unintentionally, are kind to brass and always have perfectly reamed chambers too...

Hi Forrest, two things have happened in my life recently that make me very happy - firstly the problematic VC is gone, and secondly the new Ruger No1 30-06 has filled the void, it is a delightful little gun.

 

[BeeMaa]

Hi Forrest, two things have happened in my life recently that make me very happy - firstly the problematic VC is gone, and secondly the new Ruger No1 30-06 has filled the void, it is a delightful little gun.

What happened to post #41 where you said...

Factor in reliability and the double will win all the way to eternity.

What was the problem with the VC?

 

[xausa]

The last buffalo I ever killed was with my .505 SRE (570 grain bullet at 2150 fps.) which developed 100 foot pounds of recoil energy. It had been flushed by the beaters and went straight across in front of me at about 50 yards. I shot four times before he went down, all of the shots hitting where I aimed, at the shoulder. All of the shots could have been covered with my hand. The old guy went down so hard that his nose plowed up the dirt.
After decades of high power rifle competition shooting, my bolt operation is second nature. It didn't fail me when the chips were down.

 

[IvW]

What happened to post #41 where you said...

What was the problem with the VC?

Out of spec chambers.....

 

[John Telford]

I don’t own a double so can’t comment on speed shooting vs a bolt rifle but two weeks back when doing a shoot with the Botswana wildlife guys I managed 5 shots in 11 seconds. Targets were placed in a decreasing distance zig zag formation with target 1 set at 50 m and center then 2 at 40 m to the left , 3 at 30m and to the right of target one and so on. Interestingly most of us missed the second target! I used a borrowed pre 64 in .375 which was loaded with 4 in the mag and one in the pipe. Factory soft point 300gn 4/5 hits on an A4 sheet size target with a 20cm circle as kill zone.