Double Rifles vs Bolt Actions - Speed tests

[Hoss Delgado]

4” groups at 25 yards are effectively one hole groups at 4 yards. Your first shot and your last shot are the only ones that matter!

Thanks , RookHawk ! It's , 30 yards , actually

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Which you will not need as a first time DG hunter coming to Africa. Yes practicing to reload and shoot a second even third shot is important and good, however the most important is making sure the FIRST shot goes where it is supposed to. The first shot will 100% be from shooting sticks for a first time client coming to Africa for DG.

Practice taking the first shot ACCURATELY from a three legged shooting stick, reloading from there and then placing a second shot again from the sticks and you will be good to go, forget about this freehand standing high speed shooting from the offhand position, chances are you will never do that in the field and 100% guaranteed if the first shot goes where it is supposed to, will not be needed.

For a "huge charging animal", the chances of that happening if the first shot is placed correctly are well, just about zero, yes many believe they will have to face this and be prepared to deal with it the reality is it rarely happens and almost 100% of the time only happens if the client screwed up the first shot to start with....

Practice placing the first shot where it needs to go and forget about high speed charge stopping follow up shot and you will be just fine....

Thanks , IvW. I want all my kills to be one shot Affairs too Although , on Australian Water Buffalo , l have occasionally had to use two bullets for the double lung shot ( this was Kynoch 300 grain full patch round nosed solids before you all advised to go for the soft nose premium bullets instead ).
This speed experiment was just a bit of fun after l got curious to see if l can match double rifle speeds with a bolt gun.

 

[Red Leg]

The bolt guy is slow and recoil shy....

Takes practice to instinctively maintain cheekweld and sight picture through recoil and reload of a bolt action. He needs a lot more. And why am I not surprised with a CZ having jamming issues.

Which you will not need as a first time DG hunter coming to Africa. Yes practicing to reload and shoot a second even third shot is important and good, however the most important is making sure the FIRST shot goes where it is supposed to. The first shot will 100% be from shooting sticks for a first time client coming to Africa for DG.

Practice taking the first shot ACCURATELY from a three legged shooting stick, reloading from there and then placing a second shot again from the sticks and you will be good to go, forget about this freehand standing high speed shooting from the offhand position, chances are you will never do that in the field and 100% guaranteed if the first shot goes where it is supposed to, will not be needed.

For a "huge charging animal", the chances of that happening if the first shot is placed correctly are well, just about zero, yes many believe they will have to face this and be prepared to deal with it the reality is it rarely happens and almost 100% of the time only happens if the client screwed up the first shot to start with....

Practice placing the first shot where it needs to go and forget about high speed charge stopping follow up shot and you will be just fine....

Exactly!

Also, funny things happen to folks under sudden life-threatening circumstances. In the Army, we spent enormous effort in training soldiers to instantly react in exactly the right way in close combat. Inevitably, it took actual experience to fully drive those lessens home. The best shot on the range or in the fun house might be the one who froze or fired wildly. The terrific gunner in the Bradley suddenly couldn’t hit dirt. After being exposed to actual combat conditions, the training usually started to kick in. I suspect, I haven’t done it (but I have been shot at a time or two), that facing a charging whatever is much the same until one has experienced it a couple of times - no matter how fast that bolt works on the home range.

All of which goes to IvW’s so very important point. As clients, let’s focus on getting that first shot into exactly the right spot.

 

[BeeMaa]

The bolt guy is slow and recoil shy....

And the double rifle guy is slow and fumbled his reloading by my estimation.

There are a lot of variables to consider in filming a test like that. The 416 rigby is a tad longer action and I certainly feel it compared to a standard long action. Being that he stated there were already jams makes me believe the bolt shooter isnt as well practiced with speed shooting. In all reality he was changing his muscle memory for the competition and the filming which he probably should have practiced for this filming for a few days prior if not longer.

I'd personally would love to see a 500NE double vs a 500 Jeff traditional bolt gun and then a 500 Jeff R8 all side by side....

As for the speed test video, my Grandfather would say "You can learn something from anyone...even if it's what not to do".
In this case...you should know your equipment and be intimately familiar with its operation.
Practice, practice, practice with your firearm, whether it be a double or bolt rifle.

 

[cajunchefray]

Hi Guys,

I am at the risk of being ridiculed for creating this thread, but I am inquisitive...

I have searched a bit, but have not found any comparative info.

Is there any documented info where the number of shots and the time to shoot them in has been compared? (Videos, notes etc)

I know there are many factors to consider, but I like to mess around with the maths on these type of things.

I consider myself to be reasonably fast with my bolt rifle, probably faster than the average hunter.

As always, speed is good but accuracy is final.

If you are willing to post any info, or even your own experience it will be appreciated.

Can a bolt gun be faster than a double in certain scenarios? Eg Shot 3 and maybe even 4?

What's your experience?

An excellent question and one I've thought a lot about, especially regarding needing more practice with my double 450/400 Nitro for the reload.

Pierre van der Walt's most excellent book, " African Dangerous Game Cartridges " on page 12, has a timed test of doubles versus bolt rifles, for 4 shots, with 4 shooters. This book is the most detailed, comprehensive work, of the 8 books I have on African rifles and caliber choices.

Variance between caliber, and shooters ability made for interesting results.

A small sample, and not definitive, as Mr. van der Walt notes, but still informative.

The double was a 470 NE, and the bolts were 404, 416 Rem, and 375H&H.

Shooter B is obviously a very proficient rifleman, as he was fastest with the double , the second shot from the .404, and just slightly second fastest with 4 shots from the 404.
Shooter D was more like me, slowest overall with his 375 for 4 shots.
(20.66 seconds vs. 12.21 seconds for shooter B)
I need MORE PRACTICE!

Overall for 4 shots the Top 2 average double was 16.66 seconds, while Top 2 average bolt was 11.47 seconds.

Interesting that for 2 shots, the Top 2 double average was 2.43 seconds versus 2.34 seconds for Top 2 average bolt.

Caliber makes a difference, IMO, as .470 versus.404/.416 recoil recovery time must be considered.

 

[Forrest Halley]

The bolt guy is slow and recoil shy....

He short strokes every bolt gun. He'd short stroke a .223 if given the opportunity. He made the double guy look better than average.

And the double rifle guy is slow and fumbled his reloading by my estimation.

I haven't seen a cartridge carrier set up for speed yet. They all appear to be set up for looks.

I believe the bolt gun should be faster until it has to be reloaded. Think about the mad minute British rifle doctrine. If successfully applied to the big bore, the bolt gun is head and shoulders above the double. I also think that the value of the double slows the handling down just a little. Nobody is real going to beat one up loading and firing it for speed.

 

[DWB]

An excellent question and one I've thought a lot about, especially regarding needing more practice with my double 450/400 Nitro for the reload.

Pierre van der Walt's most excellent book, " African Dangerous Game Cartridges " on page 12, has a timed test of doubles versus bolt rifles, for 4 shots, with 4 shooters. This book is the most detailed, comprehensive work, of the 8 books I have on African rifles and caliber choices.

Variance between caliber, and shooters ability made for interesting results.

A small sample, and not definitive, as Mr. van der Walt notes, but still informative.

The double was a 470 NE, and the bolts were 404, 416 Rem, and 375H&H.

Shooter B is obviously a very proficient rifleman, as he was fastest with the double , the second shot from the .404, and just slightly second fastest with 4 shots from the 404.
Shooter D was more like me, slowest overall with his 375 for 4 shots.
(20.66 seconds vs. 12.21 seconds for shooter B)
I need MORE PRACTICE!

Overall for 4 shots the Top 2 average double was 16.66 seconds, while Top 2 average bolt was 11.47 seconds.

Interesting that for 2 shots, the Top 2 double average was 2.43 seconds versus 2.34 seconds for Top 2 average bolt.

Caliber makes a difference, IMO, as .470 versus.404/.416 recoil recovery time must be considered.

Thanks! Will pull out my copy of the book now!

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

hi all
once again i havent read all 5 pages of this thread

i have done a test with a bolt action and a double before, just for fun and to settle this self same ....argument... ??

double quicker on first 2 shots, thereafter the double rifle shooter may as well start running
with a bolt action, blaser or other, we were done with 4 shots before the double rifle shooter had even reloaded

 

[DWB]

hi all
once again i havent read all 5 pages of this thread

i have done a test with a bolt action and a double before, just for fun and to settle this self same ....argument... ??

double quicker on first 2 shots, thereafter the double rifle shooter may as well start running
with a bolt action, blaser or other, we were done with 4 shots before the double rifle shooter had even reloaded

Many Thanks! More or less what we were looking to learn.

Guess at the end of the day, if you have a really proficient double rifle shooter vs a really proficient boltgun shooter, it will be tight when coming to 4 shots.

If some of the members are up for a fun challenge, use an IPSC type timer(or just download one as an app), bolt closed with one in the chamber, rifle against the hip and see how fast you can get off 4 shots and post your results here.

Keep the format simple.
Small paper plate size at 25y and let rip !

Post your results here!