Double rifle or bolt action?

[Tanks]

"Nobody needs a double rifle", well nobody needs to hunt either. However, we dream about it, plan it and do it.

If you wish to get a double rifle, then do it. My only advice is not to go dirt cheap and then regret it. Get a rimless cartridge one and practice. Once you get a couple of hundred rounds through it you should be good to go on your safari. Using a double is not that much of a challenge if one is a decent rifleman to start with. I would recommend a red dot on it though, it makes a big difference.

Now, playing devil's advocate, if spending $7K is a big deal for you then I'd wait on the purchase until your financial situation is better and then get something better than a Sabati.

Be warned though, once you get the double bug, they will multiply.

 

[Buck0317]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice and comments. I really would love to have a double but to be very honest I not a wealthy man and even the lesser expensive used doubles I'm finding are a bit high for my budget. On top of that, I spoke to my outfitter on the issue and he solved the problem for me. My outfitter said "...save the money, and hunt instead" and then offered me a mature lion hunt at a great price (well below his listed price) in 2025. As many of you know, a good mature lion and a used double are about the same price, so lion it is!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

"Nobody needs a double rifle", well nobody needs to hunt either. However, we dream about it, plan it and do it.

If you wish to get a double rifle, then do it. My only advice is not to go dirt cheap and then regret it. Get a rimless cartridge one and practice. Once you get a couple of hundred rounds through it you should be good to go on your safari. Using a double is not that much of a challenge if one is a decent rifleman to start with. I would recommend a red dot on it though, it makes a big difference.

Now, playing devil's advocate, if spending $7K is a big deal for you then I'd wait on the purchase until your financial situation is better and then get something better than a Sabati.

Be warned though, once you get the double bug, they will multiply.

I could not agree more Tanks!

 

[Rare Breed]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice and comments. I really would love to have a double but to be very honest I not a wealthy man and even the lesser expensive used doubles I'm finding are a bit high for my budget. On top of that, I spoke to my outfitter on the issue and he solved the problem for me. The outfitter offered me a mature lion hunt at a great price in 2025. As many of you know, a good mature lion and a used double are about the same price, so lion it is!!!

Take the Lion!!!!

 

[Buck0317]

Take the Lion!!!!

Now I just have to tell my wife....

 

[Inline6]

I thought about building a replica of Selby's gun but I don't think my fragile retinas could take the recoil of 416 Rigby. Apparently, during the interwar years when German arms industry was restricted, there was a cottage industry of sorts that sprang up rebuilding old 8mm 98 Mausers into African guns. As I recall 416 was the outer limit.

You do realize that the difference in recoil between a 416 and a 404 is next to nil? If you spend a little time reading reports of people disappointed in their new 404 builds recoil, you will see. I hope the 404 is everything you want it to be. I have unfortunately seen to me people have their expectations kick down. The magic 404 recoil is just as much as a 416 with all other things being equal (weight of rifle, velocity/weight of round). I'm only bringing this to your attention due to having read your comments several times about your retinas.

 

[Inline6]

Now I just have to tell my wife....

Haha you tell?

 

[Rare Breed]

Interesting assumption. I actually have hunted buffalo (and a number of plains game) with one of my doubles. Though, I do admit that I have no desire to do so with any rifle regulated into three-inches at fifty yards.

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I knew my comment would draw you out!!! You know how much I respect you and your incredible experience and accomplishments in the hunting world! I know you are a man about Nostalgia and your points were well made. I also know , although you are very modest sincerely, you have a gun group that looks like a very well done gun store of the highest order. I doubt there are any doubles in the most sought after calibers you have either tried and/or own. My five doubles pale in comparison to yours.

 

[Buck0317]

Haha you tell?

Inline, I cant hide much from her she hunts with me and fell in love with South Africa on this last safari.

 

[Inline6]

@Buck0317 that's awesome!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You do realize that the difference in recoil between a 416 and a 404 is next to nil? If you spend a little time reading reports of people disappointed in their new 404 builds recoil, you will see. I hope the 404 is everything you want it to be. I have unfortunately seen to me people have their expectations kick down. The magic 404 recoil is just as much as a 416 with all other things being equal (weight of rifle, velocity/weight of round). I'm only bringing this to your attention due to having read your comments several times about your retinas.

404 can be rough on recoil if gassed up to 416 specs. I don't see the need for that. I killed two buffalo just fine with 250 gr 375. Three bullets total. The reloading kit I bought for my 404 came with 89 Barnes TSX 400 gr bullets. I'll see how those feel at the range. I have no hesitation stepping all the way down to 300 gr if needed but 350 would probably be my next choice. I will keep 400 gr muzzle velocity around 2200 fps to start with. This gun will not be a plinker, that's for sure. I'm not scrimping on weight during the build. The stock is a lot thicker than needed and it will stay that way. Butt has not been hollowed out. Curiously, the knob on bolt handle is hollow. I plan to fill it with colored epoxy. Black, brown, or red? I'll skip having the stock checkered. That should add more weight. Every year I shoot two or three thousand rounds through my twelve gauge at the range. No eye issues at all over the last ten years ... though at one point in 2004 blindness in both eyes seemed eminent. They say I'm over the hump with vitreous fluid shrinking.

Last night I discovered the 3x9 Nikon on my Springfield slips right on the Mauser with no adjustment needed. Both guns wear the same brand rail so guess I shouldn't be too surprised. Be interesting to see if both guns share the same zero (at least out to fifty yards). Odds are better winning the lottery but ya never know. For now the plan is to use my faithful old Weaver K3 on the Mauser (see photo). It also has QD Warne rings.

I was stuck using a rail as this gun has a receiver tapped with the traditional three-hole Mauser pattern. Drilling two more holes in the rear ring just did not seem like a good idea. Tomorrow I will build a jig to open up the loading slot on the rail a bit longer on both ends to accommodate 404 cartridges. I can load them as is but longer slot will make it smoother and quicker ... important for dangerous game. I already used a homemade jig to grind off the rail's overhang in front of forward ring. Also made it a 30 degree angle to look nice ... or rather nicer. With the loading port cutout, this rail isn't as ugly as most tacticool rails but still not pretty.

When done, this rifle will have me written all over it. Not pretty, not ugly, very functional, and with elements of antiquity. Unique.

 

[Buck0317]

Do you understand what these lion “hunts” are? Given the option of a CBL shoot or a double rifle I’d actually go for the double rifle. These cats are raised as livestock on dead chickens or other meat scraps until they’ve reached trophy size. They are then released into larger hunting area. The supposedly strict SAPA standards are 0.1 acre per lion and a preferred released 7 days prior into shooting area. I find it difficult to call it hunting or a good mature male lion.

375, I do and this hunt is not a typical farm hunt. The offer I received is to take a cat from a big five game reserve as a measure to keep the population in check. I've hunted this reserve in the past and I can assure you the lions have been there far longer than seven days. I saw one of those cat farms in Free State in May, I was pretty taken back by it.

 

[375Fox]

375, I do and this hunt is not a typical farm hunt. The offer I received is to take a cat from a big five game reserve as a measure to keep the population in check. I've hunted this reserve in the past and I can assure you the lions have been there far longer than seven days. I saw one of those cat farms in Free State in May, I was pretty taken back by it.

You have a great hunt ahead then. Much better choice than a double rifle.

I deleted my original comment to not distract from your thread.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Who comes to mind when one conjurs up the image of an iconic African hunter?

THIS GUY

It helps that the actor who played him was also one of us, in real life.

Seeing King Solomon’s Mines (1950) in the cinema hall with my parents turned a 7 year old little boy into a constant daydreamer about Africa. 64 years later, I’m a hopelessly lost safari addict. All because of that one film.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

THIS GUY
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It helps that the actor who played him was also one of us, in real life.
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Seeing King Solomon’s Mines (1950) in the cinema hall with my parents turned a 7 year old little boy into a constant daydreamer about Africa. 64 years later, I’m a hopelessly lost safari addict. All because of that one film.

I have a feeling the prop Granger is using in the top two photos was actually a shotgun. Bottom photo is obviously a straight bolt Mauser. Maybe a 95? Wait ... or is he the guy in the middle? Yep. It's clearly an old SxS shotgun with hammers. Not his hammerless gold inlaid WR double rifle.

Granger was an actor. I personally have no desire to emulate actors ... or reality show hosts. Being unique is more important to me. Still not sure who I am but I don't need anyone else, least of all an actor, helping me with the search.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have a feeling the prop Granger is using in the top two photos was actually a shotgun. Bottom photo is obviously a straight bolt Mauser. Maybe a 95? Wait ... or is he the guy in the middle? Yep. It's clearly an old SxS shotgun with hammers. Not his hammerless gold inlaid WR double rifle.

Granger was an actor. I personally have no desire to emulate actors ... or reality show hosts. Being unique is more important to me. Still not sure who I am but I don't need anyone else, least of all an actor, helping me with the search.

He also actually was an Africa hunter who used a DR…be careful making statements you do not know about. You tend to use a very broad brush

 

[cajunchefray]

I joined the Army in my 30s because I didn't want to one day regret not having done so. The prospect (my own personal desire) of owning my own double seems a much easier task when compared to signing over years of my life to avoid regret. As others have stated, it's about order of priorities, with a few other values sprinkled in the mix.

True words !

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I have a feeling the prop Granger is using in the top two photos was actually a shotgun. Bottom photo is obviously a straight bolt Mauser. Maybe a 95? Wait ... or is he the guy in the middle? Yep. It's clearly an old SxS shotgun with hammers. Not his hammerless gold inlaid WR double rifle.

Granger was an actor. I personally have no desire to emulate actors ... or reality show hosts. Being unique is more important to me. Still not sure who I am but I don't need anyone else, least of all an actor, helping me with the search.

Well, the weapon in the photo still from the film is a very real vintage 8 gauge Holland & Holland black powder hammer rifle (originally owned by a Boer from the Viljoen family) that was auctioned off a few years ago. It’s very evident that the weapon is NOT a shotgun, because it has backsights. Jack Lott did an article about this rifle sometime in the 1970s and he mentioned that Stewart Granger specifically opted to use this rifle on set because it was authentic to the time period the movie was set in (1897).

In real life, he owned:
- A Westley Richard single trigger droplock ejector in .577 Nitro Express
- A Holland & Holland Mauser in .375 Magnum
- A Holland & Holland Mauser in .240 Apex
- A Westley Richards single trigger droplock ejector in 12 gauge

He was very much a real dangerous game hunter (even admitting that elephant hunting was his all-time favourite) and I highly recommend you read his autobiography which details his hunts in Africa (where he hunted on countless occasions with white hunter Eric Rungren and even faced dangerous game charges). He also hunted in India while shooting “Harry Black & The Tiger”. While shooting that film, he deliberately took creative control over the script (and deviated from the novel) by having his character be armed with the most realistic firearms for a colonial era tiger hunter.

I’ve handled both his .577 Nitro Express and his .375 Holland & Holland Magnum in London in 1996. The double rifle was so much hard used that the original stock had been cracked and was repaired by local African sheet brass reinforcements. This man definitely knew his stuff.

Living white hunter legend Tony Sanchez Arino also hunted with Stewart Granger and wrote extremely well about him.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

He also actually was an Africa hunter who used a DR…be careful making statements you do not know about. You tend to use a very broad brush

Yes, I know he was an African hunter and he owned a real double rifle (I read the article). Harry Selby was a real life professional hunter. I'd say for an "icon" he trumps an actor hobby hunter. I would loved to have met Selby. Granger not so much. I have met a few celebrities and generally speaking they don't do much for me.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Buck0317 Looks like your wife is getting a nice lion hunt