Double rifle or bolt action?

[Rare Breed]

I still struggle with this same issue of wanting a double rifle but the practicality of owning one would most likely be lost on me. For the number of times I'm likely to hunt DG with a double, I'm better off putting that money toward another animal or even another safari...especially considering the Krieghoff BF I'd be looking at.

If I were a PH or a professional guide that had a real need for such a specialized tool...I'd get one. Until then I'll be happy being a client and take my bolt action (push-feed ) rifle for hunting DG.

Let us know what you decide.

BeeMaa brings up a good point…what is your vision hunting Africa? Not others, yours? On my first safari it had nothing to do with the gun, it was just the country, animals and experience. However after my first I learned who I am…a very classical old Africa hunter. The rifle also made my experience not just the animal. For me even the clothing makes the experience for me. You will see some people laugh at people like me who want the entire Africa experience and that is fine. No better moment came for me when I took my great buff dressed like I wanted with a DR in my hands. But that is my vision. I completely both know and greatly respect BeeMaa who believe me is an outstanding hunter with his rifle of choice. The question remains…what is your ideal Africa hunting experience?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Who comes to mind when one conjurs up the image of an iconic African hunter? Not Ruark. He was just the drunken client. Not Hemingway. He was a flash in the pan. Not Roosevelt. He hunted Africa and shot a freighter full of animals but the guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Terrible shot by all accounts ... including his own. Of course the epitome of African hunter has to be Ruark's PH, Harry Selby. And what did Selby shoot? A 416 Rigby built on a right-handed standard Mauser 98 (he shot left-handed). He had doubles but almost never used them. According to Selby, 416 bolt action was the perfect gun for PHs. No surprise that he felt 375 H&H was the perfect gun/caliber for clients. Can't disagree with that.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Harry Selby's Rifles

Selby, a keen enthusiast of rifles and ballistics, formed opinions based on his experiences.

www.americanrifleman.org

So ... according to possibly the greatest professional hunter who lived, the OP would be best advised to hunt Africa with a bolt action. Whether he wants to dress up and pretend to be a "romantic" PH or a client, double rifle is, according to Selby, not the way to go. I must say, however, 416 Rigby in standard 98, while it is a doable build, would not be my choice. Too much recoil in a rifle that's a little on the light side. But it worked for him.

 

[Houston Bill]

BeeMaa brings up a good point…what is your vision hunting Africa? Not others, yours? On my first safari it had nothing to do with the gun, it was just the country, animals and experience. However after my first I learned who I am…a very classical old Africa hunter. The rifle also made my experience not just the animal. For me even the clothing makes the experience for me. You will see some people laugh at people like me who want the entire Africa experience and that is fine. No better moment came for me when I took my great buff dressed like I wanted with a DR in my hands. But that is my vision. I completely both know and greatly respect BeeMaa who believe me is an outstanding hunter with his rifle of choice. The question remains…what is your ideal Africa hunting experience?

Great advice here from Rare Breed. You need to decided what is your vision for your experiences on future hunts in Africa. Understanding that will lead you to the correct decision for you on buying a double or sticking with a bolt action. For me, I probably have a similar vision to Rare Breed's. I fell in love with the writings of people like Roosevelt, Taylor, Ruark, Corbett, Capstick and others about their adventures in Africa and India. And so hunting dangerous game with a double fulfills the picture I have in my mind of what an African safari should be.

If you head down the double route don't go too cheap. Spend the time, it probably will take time and a lot of work, to find a deal on a good quality used double from the likes of Merkel, Chapuis, Heym, Kreigoff. Personally I would stay away from Sabatti, they have had some quality problems in the past so harder to know if you are getting a good one or a lemon.

 

[375Fox]

BeeMaa brings up a good point…what is your vision hunting Africa? Not others, yours? On my first safari it had nothing to do with the gun, it was just the country, animals and experience. However after my first I learned who I am…a very classical old Africa hunter. The rifle also made my experience not just the animal. For me even the clothing makes the experience for me. You will see some people laugh at people like me who want the entire Africa experience and that is fine. No better moment came for me when I took my great buff dressed like I wanted with a DR in my hands. But that is my vision. I completely both know and greatly respect BeeMaa who believe me is an outstanding hunter with his rifle of choice. The question remains…what is your ideal Africa hunting experience?

That’s a really interesting point of view. I’ve never really considered people build a hunt around a rifle and attire. For me it’s the backstory to the animal and the area. The rifle I use and clothes I wear are just tools. I put my money towards the areas I want to hunt and those areas get more refined with each hunt. The clothes and rifles stay almost the same.

 

[Josh P]

That’s a really interesting point of view. I’ve never really considered people build a hunt around a rifle and attire. For me it’s the backstory to the animal and the area. The rifle I use and clothes I wear are just tools. I put my money towards the areas I want to hunt and those areas get more refined with each hunt. The clothes and rifles stay almost the same.

Which gun/weapon to hunt with is the first decision I make for a hunt. Currently I have a specific muzzleloader to source for a specific hunt. If I can't source it in time, I'll bring a bow since I refuse to do that hunt with an in-line.

 

[Inline6]

I'm now building a 404 Jeffery on a standard Mauser 98. It will be a piece of history since that's what Jeffery initially used when they built that cartridge in 1905. It was the first big bore rimless designed for bolt action repeaters. So I'm going for the historical cool factor. But I'll also have four very good big bore rounds at my disposal before reloading. I did decline the option of extended magazine for fifth round. That would require building a custom stock. Anyway, if I can't stop a buffalo with four 400 gr slugs, I deserve to be stomped by him.

Careful with the words you use. I'm not an expert only have 1 buff to my name. That said my PH was telling me about the guy before me that took 11 rounds with a 470NE to bring it down. I chock it up to poor shooting. How can a buff take that much lead?

Then it was my turn to shoot my buff, several weeks had passed between the two hunts. Several days went by in search for the right one. He was found, I put three text book shots into his shoulder. He did not go down, it took 6 more rounds with 400gr AFrames from my 416REM before he finally went down for the count. I would not have believed it had it not happened to me personally. That was the first time I let myself think it could not happen to me. That is the last time I will allow myself to think that way again. Just because we put the bullets where they are supposed to go. Doesn't mean the buff is going to fall right over and die because we made a good shot.

 

[Pondoro]

I would not consider a double unless you plan to hunt DG repetedly in Africa..especially if elephant is considered.. And if you consider a double it is beneficial to have it scoped with a QD mount..

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

For sure buy the double, you only live once so give it everything you have got. They are iconic, they are special, they scream 'Africa'. Practicality is a very mundane word when you consider that with each and every passing day you have one day less to truly enjoy. Your hunt is made up of many things and just putting an animal in the salt is just a small part of it. There is the buildup and expectation, there is the planning, the practice, the daydreaming, and dare I say the romance of it all. I would far rather get all of that right and just go for one special old buff with a double than warm the barrel of a 'tool'. It is all about savouring the experience, otherwise why endure the 40 hour travel and all the rest just to pull a mediocre trigger?

As to the financial side, there is as much fun in the hunt for the double itself as there is in the hunt with it. And bear in mind that provided you don't buy over the top you will always get back what you spend.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

And congratulations upon your buff Buck, now imagine the smile if there was a double leaning against it!

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

with the $7000 u talk about pretty sure you could get a great Blaser!!!
i too would love a double, but really really think about it. and if you are not an "elephant" guiding PH you really dont need one
yes they are great and look amazing and the nostalgia etc, but thats all marketing, that what they play on, in reality u dont need it

 

[Challer]

Most on this forum have struggled with this question at some point. Practically, they never make sense because they may not be fired more than 100 times during your ownership $100 - $200 per trigger pull. Compared to big game hunting generally, that isn't the end of the world, though. The way things are going there likely won't be a used market for one in 20 years.

However if you are infected with the entire experience thing, go for it. I really like British driven bird hunts and German driven boar hunts, as well as Africa. Both very different from US hunting and require a lot of kit in addition to the right gun. For some of us it is worth it.

The right way to get a double, IMO is to get barrel sets in lower calibers as well. For my Blaser BBFs, I have 06/06, 9.3/9.3 barrels (as well as Hornet over 20G, aka the critter gitter). Greatly expands my use of the gun and it's just a lot of fun. The Big Five can even be fit with shotgun barrels. So, if you go double, get at least one down caliber barrel set in your favorite round and scatter gun barrels as well.

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa brings up a good point…what is your vision hunting Africa? Not others, yours? On my first safari it had nothing to do with the gun, it was just the country, animals and experience. However after my first I learned who I am…a very classical old Africa hunter. The rifle also made my experience not just the animal. For me even the clothing makes the experience for me. You will see some people laugh at people like me who want the entire Africa experience and that is fine. No better moment came for me when I took my great buff dressed like I wanted with a DR in my hands. But that is my vision. I completely both know and greatly respect BeeMaa who believe me is an outstanding hunter with his rifle of choice. The question remains…what is your ideal Africa hunting experience?

Thank you for the compliment @Rare Breed and I completely respect you and others that are such classical hunters. Owing a proper DR and dressing the part does add a real touch of class.

Hence the struggle.

 

[Dewald]

Lots of good advise here and certainly no rights or wrongs. Another take on the matter is that for a visiting sport hunter you must enjoy the experience as much as you can, and if hunting DG in Africa with a quality double rifle adds to said experience, then go for it. I have never heard of someone hunting with a beautiful vintage rifle for a specific animal, that said they wish they rather took a stainless and polymer tool with.

If you culled buffalo every day then by all means, use an indestructible CZ, Ruger etc in a hogue or polymer stock for the job. If you spend a good deal of your savings and annual leave on the holiday, then hunt with your dream rifle.

Personally I decided to buy a vintage British double about ten years ago, knowing that as long as I look after it, it will give me a ton of enjoyment every year, and I will always get my money back when and if I decided to sell it.

If I had to buy new I would go with Heym or Chapuis. I have seen Sabatti doubles that shoot well, but I also know of a number of them that give trouble, as well as the dremmel tool batch. Seen a number of VC’s in South Africa give trouble as well and they are overpriced.

 

[Mark R]

I have both a bolt 416RM and a 450 NE double, if push came to shove I would keep the 416.

 

[uplander01]

I’ll never tell anyone not to buy a rifle they desire, but honestly unless you can spend a fair bit more like in the 15 range I wouldn’t bother. There are plenty of very African bolt rifles out there that would bring nearly the same nostalgia for a lot less money, and much easier to shoot and get ammo that works. There are so many issues facing the use of a double, so many. That being said I own a British double, plan on using it for buff and hippo next year…..but I can say with absolute certainty that it cost way more, requires more handloading than anything I’ve ever experienced in 25 years of doing it, and also a lot more practice. Ok, that was my reasonable and logical side……if I was extremely wealthy, I would probably have an entire collection of British doubles and a dedicated safe to house them as they are the coolest firearms ever built.

On a budget my friend…take that 416 Remington And go hunt and stack stuff up.unlikely you’ll be telling stories to your grand children about what rifle you used, you’ll be telling them about the experience. And on your death bed, you’ll be dreaming of africa and hoping that’s where heaven lies, not dreaming about your rifles you’re leaving behind.

 

[WAB]

Careful with the words you use. I'm not an expert only have 1 buff to my name. That said my PH was telling me about the guy before me that took 11 rounds with a 470NE to bring it down. I chock it up to poor shooting. How can a buff take that much lead?

Then it was my turn to shoot my buff, several weeks had passed between the two hunts. Several days went by in search for the right one. He was found, I put three text book shots into his shoulder. He did not go down, it took 6 more rounds with 400gr AFrames from my 416REM before he finally went down for the count. I would not have believed it had it not happened to me personally. That was the first time I let myself think it could not happen to me. That is the last time I will allow myself to think that way again. Just because we put the bullets where they are supposed to go. Doesn't mean the buff is going to fall right over and die because we made a good shot.

Agreed. I was on a follow-up where a bull took an absolutely incredible number of 500 gr slugs before succumbing. If they decide that they’re not dead it’s game on!

 

[WAB]

I’m likely one of the few on the forum who has no desire to own a double rifle. I am quite happy with my .458 Lott. Now fine British shotguns, that’s another story altogether!

 

[Mountaineer]

I struggle with the idea of buying a double for many years. I found a 375 H&H double at a Cabelas and couldn’t put it down. Fit and feel was perfect. So it followed me home. It’s an o/u. In less than a year I have shot it a few hundred times. It’s taken a few white tale, bear hunted a week, and created boat loads of excitement. It’s headed to Africa for plains game later this year and just might make its first elk hunt in October. The 375 is extremely versatile. I know it doesn’t have the power of the true big doubles, but it gets used a lot and it will be my go to for all things Africa.

 

[Challer]

375 is all you need unless you are the sole hunter with no PH.

 

[AZDAVE]

There has been alot of very good advise given. Like others have said you need to decide on what your priorities are as far as what you want to hunt and hunt with. My question I always ask is if i am wandering around my trophy room in my 90's reliving past hunts I don't want to kick myself and say I wish I had shot some stuff with a double, or a bolt gun, or a single shot. Ask yourself that question and move forward . Your dreams are yours so live them.

I fall on the side of get a double, but you need to understand going in that the learning cure on a double is steep and expensive. You also need to be disciplined in your hunting and willing to walk away from shots that would be very easy with a scoped bolt gun. you need to shot your double several hunderd rounds to get comfortable with the manual of arms for a double, and a couple hundred more to know exactly where it shoots from 100 in to 10. Then have to work with a PH to get you in position to make an ethical shot on the animal you are harvesting.

If you are still reading and not clicked the back arrow. I owned a sabatti 450NE that was one of the good ones and shot a buffalo, zebra, and warthog with it before a friend talked me out of it. That said If I was looking to buy a first and probably only double I would look for a nice Chapuis, or Krieghoff in the 11-16K range Then the step up in price to VC or Hyem. For caliber the 375 and 450/400 are good client rifles.

What ever you decide practice with your rifle, get in shape and enjoy every second in the bush.