Double Rifle for Your First Safari?

[Red Leg]

And when it stops being "regulated properly"? Then what? Take out an insurance policy to send it off to someone to be fixed? If my Springfield doesn't shoot straight, I fix it. Me. I take it to the range and "regulate" my scope or check the bedding or change the load. It's not rocket science. Regulating a double is rocket science. I've only got one barrel to straighten out, not two. From what I'm reading here, a three inch group at a hundred yards is acceptable for a double rifle. A Mauser that shoots a three inch group goes to the pawn sh

I get it that you have all this figured out, but you are really going to debate people who have actually used a double in the field?!?

When does a double quit being regulated properly? I mean seriously - how does that happen? Perhaps your assumed experiences with doubles is different than those here who have actually used them? I have doubles with regulated loads that shoot today exactly as they did 20 years ago. What are your experiences with them that are different?

Look, I strongly recommend a quality scoped bolt action for a first safari. But if you have a double that shoots well, with a regulated load, what is the issue? @Tanks is correct. One has two rifles immediately available with a double (assuming it has double triggers). A Mauser with an problem is a club unless one has a bayonet attached, in which case it is a spear.

You also clearly do not understand an accurate double. For instance my S2 shoots 2.5" LxR/LxR four shot groups at 100 yards. But the right barrel shoots sub MOA. I sight in on the right barrel and have an instant second shot within a couple of MOA. What is not to like? Particularly in a DG caliber.

If I am interested in multiple MOA shots then I'll use my R8 which is, again in my experience, superior to a Mauser.

 

[Houston Bill]

I had a lot of people tell me that I shouldn't take a double rifle on my first safari. "Save it for your fourth or fifth safari," they said. Fourth and fifth safaris simply may not be a reality for some of us. Trips to Africa for most of us are based around the romance of hunting Africa, and for some, a big part of that romance is hunting Africa with a double. I mean lets face it, there is nothing that compares to the feeling of breaking open a double and dunking two of those big rounds into the chamber and snapping her shut before you stroll off into the bush. When I originally booked with Phillip Smythe before his incident, he said something that really stuck with me while we were discussing what rifle I should bring. "What do you see yourself shooting your buffalo with? That is what you should bring." While there is some sound reasoning behind not bringing a double on your first trip, I decided I would take a double, and what I learned is there are two very important questions you need to ask yourself before you take a double to Africa on your first or tenth trip.

One of those questions is, how important is actually killing your target animals on this trip? Would you be willing to walk away from this trip with nothing but the experience of hunting these animals and possibly not getting a shot? There is a real possibility that you might not find yourself in position to take a shot with a double, where you may have easily been able to take that animal with a scoped rifle. The second question, in my opinion, is how much time are you willing and or able to commit to training with a double rifle. Double rifles are fickle mistresses; they are difficult to shoot well, and they take a ton of practice to get truly proficient with. I purchased mine about a year before my hunt, and I shot roughly 250 rounds through it prior to the hunt. I still don't shoot it as well as I feel that I should be able to. As a client on a safari you have a serious responsibility resting squarely on your shoulders. If you make a bad shot and wound an animal, that PH and his trackers are obligated to go in and clean up the mess you have made. You have now put lives in danger, and if that situation has arisen due to your negligence in training then you are gonna have to live with that if you get somebody hurt. Bad shots happen, that is just part of hunting, but if you are going to voluntarily handicap yourself by taking a double, then you owe it to the PH and the entire crew to do your due diligence and practice with that rifle and attain the highest level of proficiency that you can.

I absolutely loved hunting with a double. If I had it to do over, I would definitely take the double on my first trip again, and I would say that most of my future hunts will be with my double. Adding the challenge of having to close the distance on some of the smaller plains game to get within double gun range brought a whole new level of fun to the hunt. I say if you want to hunt with a double on your first safari then go for it! Understand the risks you are taking, commit to the training necessary, then go to Africa and live your dream.

A very well written post and I agree with you 100%. I did not take a double until my 6th safari but that is because I was an idiot and did not discover the the shear joy I have hunting with a double sooner. I also did not think I could afford a double back then....but if I made it a priority I could have found a way. I will be taking a double on every safari I go on in the future. I LOVE to hunt with a double!

I also agree with you that we owe it to ourselves and to the PH and his staff to practice, practice and practice some more with our double so that we shoot accurately and create the muscle memory to find the second trigger quickly in case things get extra exciting!

 

[K E Johnson]

@Ontario Hunter, please don’t waste your money on a double. Not your thing, we all get that.

My double will not go with me to Africa my first trip. My Dakota in 416 Rigby, or my Winchester 70 in 404 Jeffery will go first. Waiting on the 404, so 416 Rigby will probably get first blood. My 375 H&H will probably tag along as well.

I want to get some fist hand experience, as well as have a PH see what I can do before I bring a double. Are doubles for everyone? No!

“Horses for courses “ I have always heard. You pay your money and take your chances. Enjoy your 404 Jeffery Mauser 98. A number of members like Blaser R8 rifles. Pick what works for you. Let others do the same.

 

[AZDAVE]

I hunt sometimes with a scoped bolt or single shot, but my love is hunting with a double and getting in close and experiencing the hunt. i have hunted my Buffalo, eland, roan, sable, hippo, zebra, warthog and a few more with my doubles. These hunts mean more to me than all the scoped rifle hunts put together. With the double you must be disciplined enough to pass on shots that would be easy with a scoped rifle, but the satisfaction at the end of a double hunt is just amazing.

If a double isn't your thing no problems. use what you want. But trying to tell us not to use it is kinda like trying to tell a woman what dress to wear. That dog won't hunt.

 

[mark-hunter]

Its not about the rifle if the DR is regulated. Its about the sights.
Put at least red dot, or wide angle scope, and go hunting.
QD mounts, and you have all three options.

 

[PerH]

Yes

 

[Houston Bill]

Its not about the rifle if the DR is regulated. Its about the sights.
Put at least red dot, or wide angle scope, and go hunting.
QD mounts, and you have all three options.

Yep!

 

[SFRanger7GP]

In my experience, double rifles shoot "sub-minute of beast". Which is plenty good enough for this old fat boy. I have complete confidence in my Merkel 141E in 9.3x74R. When mine "stopped being regulated properly", I put the scope on it.

Texoma buck killed one shot at a measured 225 yards.

Double with a double on turkey later that same day. Clipped the base of the necks (about 15 and 25 yards)

Kudu at just over 200 yards. 2 shots, because it's a double rifle.

Springbok at 65 yards. All that crawling in SOTIC paid off.

Taking an animal with a double is always a wonderful experience.

Safe hunting and memorable adventures

 

[frog stealer]

[mention]SFRanger7GP [/mention] So cool, thanks for posting!

 

[Rare Breed]

I get it that you have all this figured out, but you are really going to debate people who have actually used a double in the field?!?

When does a double quit being regulated properly? I mean seriously - how does that happen? Perhaps your assumed experiences with doubles is different than those here who have actually used them? I have doubles with regulated loads that shoot today exactly as they did 20 years ago. What are your experiences with them that are different?

Look, I strongly recommend a quality scoped bolt action for a first safari. But if you have a double that shoots well, with a regulated load, what is the issue? @Tanks is correct. One has two rifles immediately available with a double (assuming it has double triggers). A Mauser with an problem is a club unless one has a bayonet attached, in which case it is a spear.

You also clearly do not understand an accurate double. For instance my S2 shoots 2.5" LxR/LxR four shot groups at 100 yards. But the right barrel shoots sub MOA. I sight in on the right barrel and have an instant second shot within a couple of MOA. What is not to like? Particularly in a DG caliber.

If I am interested in multiple MOA shots then I'll use my R8 which is, again in my experience, superior to a Mauser.

You beat me to it with your post @redleg

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I hunt sometimes with a scoped bolt or single shot, but my love is hunting with a double and getting in close and experiencing the hunt. i have hunted my Buffalo, eland, roan, sable, hippo, zebra, warthog and a few more with my doubles. These hunts mean more to me than all the scoped rifle hunts put together. With the double you must be disciplined enough to pass on shots that would be easy with a scoped rifle, but the satisfaction at the end of a double hunt is just amazing.

If a double isn't your thing no problems. use what you want. But trying to tell us not to use it is kinda like trying to tell a woman what dress to wear. That dog won't hunt.

I don't think anyone is trying to tell anyone else what not to use. The question was asked and different perspectives have been given with the reasoning for each.

If I'm reading this correctly, the choice for a double gun is about 98% nostalgia and 2% practicality. Of course, there is no way of determining or even questioning the validity of nostalgic value. It's an ephemeral quantity/quality in the mind of each individual. However, the question of practicality is certainly debatable. I have watched countless videos of double gun hunters firing the second shot wildly, often in the throws of recoil recovery, when even the very short time required to reload and remount may have given them pause to refocus and place the shot better. Is a quick follow up shot better than more shots in a magazine? We could debate that forever. For me, the choice of DGR for Ruark's Harry Selby and Capstick's Wally Johnson ended the debate. But killing things was their business. Living in a golden age was not as important to them. And it's not as important to me ... but not totally unimportant either. I shoot a couple of WWII warhorses made during the heydays of Selby and Johnson. No 6.5 Creedmore in my gunsafe. So yes, I understand and appreciate nostalgia, but arguing that a double gun is the better "practical" choice for a dangerous game rifle? That's a little harder to "appreciate."

 

[Pondoro]

I don't think anyone is trying to tell anyone else what not to use. The question was asked and different perspectives have been given with the reasoning for each.

If I'm reading this correctly, the choice for a double gun is about 98% nostalgia and 2% practicality. Of course, there is no way of determining or even questioning the validity of nostalgic value. It's an ephemeral quantity/quality in the mind of each individual. However, the question of practicality is certainly debatable. I have watched countless videos of double gun hunters firing the second shot wildly, often in the throws of recoil recovery, when even the very short time required to reload and remount may have given them pause to refocus and place the shot better. Is a quick follow up shot better than more shots in a magazine? We could debate that forever. For me, the choice of DGR for Ruark's Harry Selby and Capstick's Wally Johnson ended the debate. But killing things was their business. Living in a golden age was not as important to them. And it's not as important to me ... but not totally unimportant either. I shoot a couple of WWII warhorses made during the heydays of Selby and Johnson. No 6.5 Creedmore in my gunsafe. So yes, I understand and appreciate nostalgia, but arguing that a double gun is the better "practical" choice for a dangerous game rifle? That's a little harder to "appreciate."

On an elephant hunt in thick cover, the choice for a double rifle is 98% practicality and 2% nostalgia.. I could make a long list of ivory hunters back in the day who swore to large caliber doubles.. .450 and up.. Many used .577 rifles. Ever heard of the Lado Enclave..?

I suspect Wally Johnson and Harry Manners chose .375H&H Winchesters from an economical point of view...Nitro Express ammo was expensive in those days too..

 

[AZDAVE]

@Backyardsniper I want to commend you on taking the time to get comfortable on shooting your double and understanding the limitations of the hunt with one! I also took a double on my 1st, 2nd, 3rd safaris along with a scoped rifle on the 1st and 3rd. the next couple The game I was hunting pretty much needed a scoped single shot or bolt gun. The next two safaris I have planned will be double only going with me.

@Ontario Hunter Human nature is to debate things and lay out your reasons for the decision you made about rifles, trucks, women etc. I have read the books written by the Gentlemen you mentioned and others. But have formed my own opinions based on my reading and experience with all the platforms. I shoot 500-700 rounds out of my doubles each year, a couple thousand rounds out of single shot and bolt guns, more shots out of scatter guns that I really want to put a number to. so my decisions to hunt with each platform is based on experience and and information I have researched. If you are ever in the states and down in Arizona you are welcome to stop by and I will take you to the range and let you shoot a couple different doubles. So hunt often shoot straight and enjoy the adventures of life.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Most hunters go through the same phases.
And these stages have been laid out and discussed often.

In the beginning I just wanted and needed to kill the animal and chose the most effective method and tool. Then as I became more proficient and productive I chose tools that made it more about the chase than the kill. For me the compound bow. Then the Recurve bow, then making my own all wood, self bows.

My dream had always been to kill a Buffalo with my bow and on the track not sitting in a blind.
My first hunt was unsuccessful. But I was hooked. I killed my bull on day five of the second hunt. It exceeded everything I had dreamed of.

After those two hunts I realized that the weapon did not matter to me. It was the trailing of the herd and or bull. The baboons, birds or wind giving you up to the herd. The tracking and sneaking into position is what matters. So for me the double rifle still makes you get in close and personal.

That is what my wife and I will use next. And we will have shot many rounds by then. It’s half the fun. Preparing for and planning the trip. We are all in different stages and mindsets for killing animals. None are superior to others. As long as you are proficient with your chosen tool.

 

[HankBuck]

I get it that you have all this figured out, but you are really going to debate people who have actually used a double in the field?!?

When does a double quit being regulated properly? I mean seriously - how does that happen? Perhaps your assumed experiences with doubles is different than those here who have actually used them? I have doubles with regulated loads that shoot today exactly as they did 20 years ago. What are your experiences with them that are different?

Look, I strongly recommend a quality scoped bolt action for a first safari. But if you have a double that shoots well, with a regulated load, what is the issue? @Tanks is correct. One has two rifles immediately available with a double (assuming it has double triggers). A Mauser with an problem is a club unless one has a bayonet attached, in which case it is a spear.

You also clearly do not understand an accurate double. For instance my S2 shoots 2.5" LxR/LxR four shot groups at 100 yards. But the right barrel shoots sub MOA. I sight in on the right barrel and have an instant second shot within a couple of MOA. What is not to like? Particularly in a DG caliber.

If I am interested in multiple MOA shots then I'll use my R8 which is, again in my experience, superior to a Mauser.

Well stated, I’ve got a .470 NE double that shoots 1 1/2” @ 100 yrds from one barrel and both barrels together print under 3” - it’s a Chapuis which seems “average price” as double rifles go (Heym, Holland & Holland cost more). The rifles shoots better then I can under actual hunting conditions and I can’t blame the rifle for a poor shot at 100 yrds - it would always be My Fault. I also liked having 2 triggers. 2 firing pins. Knowing at least one would always work. Never gave much thought or worry to the barrels ever shifting or losing their regulated POI (maybe if they got run over by a truck or Elephant?)

 

[PerH]

Bengt Berg’s Fantastic Set of Simson Guns – German Hunting Guns

A set about doubles with extra sets .

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Bengt Berg’s Fantastic Set of Simson Guns – German Hunting Guns

A set about doubles with extra sets .

Great read! Thank you for sharing.

Safe shooting

 

[rookhawk]

I guess in the unlikely event I feel an urge to attach myself to Africa "white hunter" romance, I can always pretend to be Harry Selby or Wally Johnson. They worked most of their profession hunter careers shooting standard Mauser bolt action rifles. Double rifles didn't cut the mustard for them so why should I think one would work for me?

Point of order. Harry Selby had a double rifle and it was his go-to gun until run over by the truck. In a state of emergency, he started using his standard length action 416 Rigby and made a career out of it.

"I heard a car in the distance and thought it was our car. What happened is that Donald was coming up the other side and saw the vultures overhead and came over to see what was going on. He drove right over the barrels of my .470, bending them beyond any possible repair. Fortunately, the safari was just about over, so when it arrived in Nairobi he set about trying to find another double, preferably another .470 if possible, but all he could find was a .416 Rigby.”


There is always an inherent bias in what someone owns or can afford versus what they cannot own or cannot afford.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Point of order. Harry Selby had a double rifle and it was his go-to gun until run over by the truck. In a state of emergency, he started using his standard length action 416 Rigby and made a career out of it.

"I heard a car in the distance and thought it was our car. What happened is that Donald was coming up the other side and saw the vultures overhead and came over to see what was going on. He drove right over the barrels of my .470, bending them beyond any possible repair. Fortunately, the safari was just about over, so when it arrived in Nairobi he set about trying to find another double, preferably another .470 if possible, but all he could find was a .416 Rigby.”


There is always an inherent bias in what someone owns or can afford versus what they cannot own or cannot afford.

As I recall, Selby did acknowledge receiving another double later after acquiring the Mauser in a pinch. But he always preferred the 416 Mauser bolt action to the end of his career. It is worth noting that his preference was for 3+1 capacity standard 98 action rather than 4+1 magnum length Mauser. Must have been a reason. Or maybe not? Anyway, I would be surprised if more than one happy client didn't leave a double rifle with him as gratuity. And/or the ammunition to shoot them. The bottom line remains when asked in his later years, Selby responded that the ideal calibers for client and for PH was 375 H&H for client and 416 Rigby for PH. He didn't elaborate but presumption is he was not suggesting double rifle for either client or PH. Again, the interviewer didn't manage to get him to elaborate but Selby must have had good reasons to avoid recommending double rifles.

I suppose it mostly boils down to chasing the nostalgia and mystique historically associated with hunting the Dark Continent. It attracted me as well. But I was raised in a hard working middle class (barely) home and followed that tradition throughout my life, especially into the field. I hunted HARD and almost exclusively alone. But after nearly a half century of that I was ready to explore something different before I cashed in. Sitting in a blind over a waterhole was never my idea of hunting and I was surprised to find there are African outfitters (most of them I suspect) who also don't prefer that style of shooting things (which is not "hunting" in my book). So I gave it a try. It meant following a guide rather than hunting alone. I accepted that limitation, but not because of the attached romantic nostalgia. Obviously, the liability risks of allowing DYI nonresident hunting in Africa are simply too great. Potential dangers for the uninitiated hunter in Africa are exponentially beyond anything one might encounter here in North America. Also, I felt learning to hunt with someone else could be a life altering and enriching experience for me ... which it has been (maybe less so for my PHs?). So, heading off to Africa which romantic image, if any, would I choose to follow: the rich playboy movie star or a hard hunting low born professional hunter? Okay, in truth there never was a conscious choice made ... but I cannot deny my upbringing and prior hunting habits may have made a subconscious choice for me. Doing things the hard way = me. Sure, I have the funds now to play with double rifles and hunt "wild" Africa. But sleeping in a farmhouse with my dad's old bolt action in the closet next me is more my speed. From what I've read it seems to have been more Selby's speed too.

This has been an interesting dialog. I have learned a lot about some of the members ... and about how the culture of African hunting is evolving.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

There is always an inherent bias in what someone owns or can afford versus what they cannot own or cannot afford.

Perhaps you assume too much. Obviously, if I can afford to hunt Africa four times and counting, I could afford a double rifle. Your assumption is everyone who can afford one should be inherently biased towards hunting with one. That is the definition of stereotype. Variation is what made us an evolutionary success. Why would anyone choose now to fit a stereotype? Every dandelion weed is different. Different from every other dandelion plant anywhere that is and ever was and ever will be. Differences in size, shape, flower structure, root structure, cell structure. Why would a human being at the very pinnacle of world evolution choose NOT to find his/her own distinct path through the one and only life he/she will ever have?