Do German's just do it best?

[Wishfulthinker580]

Or a converted military action. The cut out makes no sense without stripper clips.

I agree. Just pointing out that that option is available from some modern manufacturers. Purely for nostalgic reasons that don’t make sense like you said

 

[Huvius]

Or a converted military action. The cut out makes no sense without stripper clips.

You're both wrong actually.
In the original patent drawings, the "thumb cutout" is identified as a gas escape.
Think of it, 90% of the world is right handed so a thumb cut on the left side of the action for that purpose is nonsense.
Most of the commercial sporting Mauser '98s have this feature and are not ex-military or taken off of a military production line.
This cutout has become the single most misunderstood feature of the Mauser '98 and has muddied the water for too long.

 

[pjaln]

The action in that rifle has a military cut out - just saying.

here's Morris hallowells description he had a 416 at one time with pics out of the stock to show the action ,, Prechlt made thumb cut mag actions up till about 15 years ago Gordy and sons has one for sale as speak

Casartelli Armi. Concisio, Brescia. --- Custom Mauser --- .375 H&H Magnum

Description:
26" tapered round barrel with detented-folding-hooded matted-ramp front sight, full-band-mounted swivel, full-band island base with 1 standing and 1 folding gold-lined express sights. Figured walnut stock with horn forend tip, classic wrap-around point-pattern checkering, steel pistol grip cap, beaded pancake cheekpiece, rear swivel, and solid red rubber recoil pad. In-house-built, pillar-bedded Mauser C-ring action with concealed recoil lug under front receiver ring, checkered bolt knob, custom single-stage trigger, 60-degree cocking-piece safety, and 4-round magazine with hinged straddle floorplate and release inside triggerguard. Zeiss Diavari-ZM 2.5-10 x 48 T* rail-mount scope with fine 4A duplex reticle on quick-detachable claw mounts, the front base for which is dovetailed to the same full-band island as the express sights. Weight: 11lbs, 9oz. Pull: 14 1/4". Built 1996. Little used.

 

[RR 314]

I am not sure what your point is. The rifle has a lovely stock. Though I do not understand the leather covered pad. They were created by the British to allow smooth mounting without clothing drag of shotguns during driven shoots. Odd to see one on a rifle. Several of my pigeon guns have them, and they are excellent for that purpose.

This is a Craig Libhart .404. My only point is that American craftsmen are capable of making the equal of any rifles in the world and have been doing it for a very long time.
View attachment 639706

And a Bailey Bradshaw proprietary actioned "rising block" 7x65R
View attachment 639707

I dare say clothing drag could be more of an issue with elephant than winged pursuits. It is just a nice touch on any well built rifle. Many great gun builders in the US commonly use leather covered pads as well. Footnote Todd Ramirez. Would be out of place on a synthetic stock, but right at home on any well stocked rifle.

I obviously agree great craftsman can be anywhere on the planet. We have our share here in the states.

 

[spike.t]

I dare say clothing drag could be more of an issue with elephant than winged pursuits. It is just a nice touch on any well built rifle. Many great gun builders in the US commonly use leather covered pads as well. Footnote Todd Ramirez. Would be out of place on a synthetic stock, but right at home on any well stocked rifle.

I obviously agree great craftsman can be anywhere on the planet. We have our share here in the states.

Do enough driven pheasant shooting and you will be shouldering your shotgun thousands of times more than with any elephant....

 

[MD Driver]

I think a big difference between European gun lines compared to what’s available in America has to do with demographics and accessibility. In Europe, hunting and shooting in general is a one-percenter(?) activity. The cost and governmental barriers can be onerous. So naturally, people with the means to commit themselves will probably demand quality firearms, because they can. In America, getting into hunting and firearms purchases are pretty easy. The market therefore gets saturated with cheap, low-end, mass-produced rifles (Savage, etc). I may be wrong, but I don’t think those products would do well in Europe.

American custom builders, though…. You bet, they’re producing some really nice stuff.

 

[spike.t]

You're both wrong actually.
In the original patent drawings, the "thumb cutout" is identified as a gas escape.
Think of it, 90% of the world is right handed so a thumb cut on the left side of the action for that purpose is nonsense.
Most of the commercial sporting Mauser '98s have this feature and are not ex-military or taken off of a military production line.
This cutout has become the single most misunderstood feature of the Mauser '98 and has muddied the water for too long.

How is it nonsense?...using your right hand to push down on a stripper clip you would need the cutout on the left of the receiver, otherwise your thumb would hammer itself on the top of the receiver every time....which would end up bit painful I would have thought....

 

[Huvius]

Not at all.
The righthand side of the Mauser '98 is already set low in relation to the left wall and the cutout only brings that area down to the same height.
I understand that the cutout is handy for one's thumb to lay into but when using a stripper clip, one must actually push the cartridges into the magazine in order for the top cartridge to catch underneath the edge of the right wall.
If you initially place your thumb all the way over the clipped cartridges to rest in the cutout, you must still again recenter your thumb tip to push the cartridges home. That's just the way it works.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

IMHO there are many facets to a top quality rifle or double - mechanical design, quality of steel, machining accuracy ar the top line characteristics. Then lower down comes finish, and presentation. A maker who really knows their stuff makes them in that order, and a knowledgeable gun purchaser appreciates them in that order. I only have experience with three makers, a German (Heym double) utterly faultless. A French double that Failed all the top list, all of it. And my two Ruger No1's that pass all of the top list and pretty much the rest too, just thin on wood quality.

 

[RR 314]

Do enough driven pheasant shooting and you will be shouldering your shotgun thousands of times more than with any elephant....

You missed the smiley face. The main point of my reply was that it is common for the best custom rifle makers, regardless of their continent, to use leather covered recoil pads.

 

[Red Leg]

You're both wrong actually.
In the original patent drawings, the "thumb cutout" is identified as a gas escape.
Think of it, 90% of the world is right handed so a thumb cut on the left side of the action for that purpose is nonsense.
Most of the commercial sporting Mauser '98s have this feature and are not ex-military or taken off of a military production line.
This cutout has become the single most misunderstood feature of the Mauser '98 and has muddied the water for too long.

Have you ever actually inserted a stripper clip into a mauser? It is done with the right hand and thumb and the cutout allows the thumb to go all the way to the top of the magazine. This was also a convenient place to vent gas away from the soldier's face, and Mauser incorporated both functions into the cutout design. I would argue fast reload in combat was the more important function in a battle rifle. After all, that was the rifle's original purpose. I can offer a number of cites if anyone is interested.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | A Study Of The Mauser 98

Adoption of the Mauser 98 bolt-action rifle by Germany on April 5, 1898, marked an important event in rifle history. Today, a century later, the name Mauser 98 is still well-known worldwide and is symbolic of rifle excellence.

www.americanrifleman.org

Sporting mausers made in Obendorf am Necker used the same action design as those going into the military production line. Other than its set triggers and bolt handle, my Model B has a standard military configuration to include the raised clip insert slot. The Type S that I owned had the same action with the exception the ridge above the stripper slot had been ground away - probably to ease installation of a claw mount for the German audience for which this model was targeted.

 

[Red Leg]

You missed the smiley face. The main point of my reply was that it is common for the best custom rifle makers, regardless of their continent, to use leather covered recoil pads.

But that is simply not true. Many, I would suspect most owners of bespoke rifles realize that a leather covered pad is not traditional on a rifle - even problematic in achieving proper spot weld. Of course any custom gunmaker and even Rigby or Westley Richards will provide a leather covered pad to a client who wants one. But it is rather like brown shoes with a tuxedo.

 

[PerH]

As they say here , Ziegehahn was developing weapons for MFS also and ddr Spetznatz units .

But also their most secret was the biathlon .22 rifle with its grip tilting mechanisms

And that they took a lot of medals with . As not to move hand much ,and that certainly kept much of the speed and accuracy in the essential parts of the rifles .

 

[RR 314]

But that is simply not true. Many, I would suspect most owners of bespoke rifles realize that a leather covered pad is not traditional on a rifle - even problematic in achieving proper spot weld. Of course any custom gunmaker and even Rigby or Westley Richards will provide a leather covered pad to a client who wants one. But it is rather like brown shoes with a tuxedo.

Ok. I’m out. However, next time I see Todd Ramirez I will tell him he needs to pull it together and stick with plain rubber.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok. I’m out. However, next time I see Todd Ramirez I will tell him he needs to pull it together and stick with plain rubber.

Yes, I know he offers them. There is no accounting for taste or the understanding of form and function. He also offers skeleton buttplates with checkered wood and will even add a traditional red rubber pad. And he isn't even German.

 

[Huvius]

"

Have you ever actually inserted a stripper clip into a mauser? It is done with the right hand and thumb and the cutout allows the thumb to go all the way to the top of the magazine. This was also a convenient place to vent gas away from the soldier's face, and Mauser incorporated both functions into the cutout design. I would argue fast reload in combat was the more important function in a battle rifle. After all, that was the rifle's original purpose.

Of course I have used Mauser clips. That is why I know how they are used.
See my post above.
Sure, your thumb fits nicely in the cutout but one still needs to push your thumb into the mag.
Look at almost every other battle rifle of the late 19th and 20thC.
The '03 Springfield has an abbreviated dip but nothing like a Mauser.
Is there another bolt action battle rifle which uses stripper clips that has such a thumb slot?
Not even the M1A or M14 have thumb cutouts.
If one really thinks this is the primary purpose of the cutout then I suppose you would have to say the Germans did just do it best!!

 

[spike.t]

You missed the smiley face. The main point of my reply was that it is common for the best custom rifle makers, regardless of their continent, to use leather covered recoil pads.

Nope not from what I have seen....but I obviously know nothing....

 

[VertigoBE]

The point that I think you are missing is that there are an enormous number of very well heeled American hunters who do invest in very fine firearms. While the proportionate differences may indeed be true - the US does have far more working class hunters, I suspect the overall number of American hunters with the means and desire to invest in fine firearms exceeds the UK and Germany combined. Many of them, opt to invest in bespoke American made rifles. rather than a European product.

I actually would have expected that well heeled Americans are the primary off takers of bespoke British firearms. Rigby’s for example.

 

[SaintPanzer]

The point that I think you are missing is that there are an enormous number of very well heeled American hunters who do invest in very fine firearms. While the proportionate differences may indeed be true - the US does have far more working class hunters, I suspect the overall number of American hunters with the means and desire to invest in fine firearms exceeds the UK and Germany combined. Many of them, opt to invest in bespoke American made rifles. rather than a European product.

Actually, I think we are alluding to the same thing. To compare a standard American gun to the German guns is apples to oranges. The well heeled American who can afford it is as likely to pick a custom gun, or a custom-like gun as a stock German gun.

If I can buy a Parkwest for the price of a Mauser, I see no real reason to travel to Baden Wûrtemburg.

 

[spike.t]

Actually, I think we are alluding to the same thing. To compare a standard American gun to the German guns is apples to oranges. The well heeled American who can afford it is as likely to pick a custom gun, or a custom-like gun as a stock German gun.

If I can buy a Parkwest for the price of a Mauser, I see no real reason to travel to Baden Wûrtemburg.

Yeah but mauser...parkwest....mauser...parkwest .......parkwest sounds like a shopping mall....just saying...