Do German's just do it best?

[RR 314]

germans got the mauser action going full steam ahead in the early 1900,s which is still the king today the English tweaked the style of the wood to suit there type of shooting , today the Italians produce actions that are made by CONCARI of Italy and used in germany by many top makers including RItterbusch with their takedown

I thought Ritterbusch built all of his own actions (started in Lithuania and finished in Germany)?

 

[pjaln]

I thought Ritterbusch built all of his own actions (started in Lithuania and finished in Germany)?

look at thier takedown action the one that the barrel slides into the front ring , I spoke with concari and they confirmed it , a friend of mine had one for sale so I was able to inspect it .. Italian engraved also if you go not concari web site look at special models

 

[RR 314]

look at thier takedown action the one that the barrel slides into the front ring , I spoke with concari and they confirmed it , a friend of mine had one for sale so I was able to inspect it Italian engraved also

Never knew that. His takedowns are awesome.

 

[pjaln]

Never knew that. His takedowns are awesome.

he made actions for Carlo casartelli also , here one that hallowed had a while ago it was a 375 h&h ,they also make a rimmed feed mauser

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I realize I don’t own any German Rifles. But I have Brownings, Winchesters, Rugers, Remingtons, Marlins, a Weatherby, and a couple SAKO’s… Probably some older military rifles too…The first hunting rifle I bought and I hunted big game with, was a Browning 7MM REM MAG. All I could afford at the time and I still have it.

It’s hard not to be a fan of John Moses Browning! Or a few other founders of the aforementioned rifle makers and their legacy’s…

John Browning has an interesting story. He was an American firearm designer who developed many varieties of military and civilian firearms, cartridges, and gun mechanisms, many of which are still in use around the world. He made his first firearm at age 13 in his father's gun shop and was awarded the first of his 128 firearm patents on October 7, 1879, at the age of 24.He is regarded as one of the most successful firearms designers of the 19th and 20th centuries and a pioneer of modern repeating, semi-automatic, and automatic firearms.

Browning influenced nearly all categories of firearms design, especially the autoloading of ammunition. He invented, or made significant improvements to, single-shot, lever-action, and pump-action rifles and shotguns. He developed the first reliable and compact autoloading pistols by inventing the telescoping bolt, then integrating the bolt and barrel shroud into what is known as the pistol slide. Browning's telescoping bolt design is now found on nearly every modern semi-automatic pistol, as well as several modern fully automatic weapons. He also developed the first gas-operated firearm, the Colt–Browning Model 1895 machine gun – a system that surpassed mechanical recoil operation to become the standard for most high-power self-loading firearm designs worldwide. He also made significant contributions to automatic cannon development.

Browning's most successful designs include the M1911 pistol, the water-cooled M1917, the air-cooled M1919, and heavy M2 machine guns, the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, and the Browning Auto-5 – the first semi-automatic shotgun. Some of these arms are still manufactured, often with only minor changes in detail and cosmetics to those assembled by Browning or his licensees. The Browning-designed M1911 and Hi-Power are some of the most copied firearms in the world.

 

[Schroeder]

Thanks for the post about Ferlach. That brings back fond memories! I, too, remember well the museum. In one display there was a rifle stock with a level of carving which approached the precision of metal engraving--but no pictures allowed. At the Guild, they told me that most of the town's Buchsenmachermeisters were encouraged from apprenticeship onward to speak English. I know that Karl Hauptmann was very fluent, as well as Borovnik and a few others. Borovnik's grandson is in full swing to learn the trade. Others are not so lucky to pass on the tradition... Many, like Jakob Koschat, are either gone or getting on in years. Peter Hoffmann has had his spread of wares at the last two DSC Conventions. EVERYONE with a shingle out in Ferlach is top 1% worldwide talent in all aspects and can build whatever your heart desires or pocketbook can afford! And they have walnut blanks to literally drool over.
I would encourage everyone on AH to google up the makers names and look at their websites, though it is almost more stimulation than many can bear. What a beautiful little town, and drop dead gorgeous guns, guns, guns.
If you visit, remember that you lose a full day getting there due to the time zone! And you will want at least two day for the visit, and the more, the better.
As Karl Hauptmann says, "Do you NEED a gun like this to go hunting? No--but it sure is fun!"

Isn’t it a great feeling visiting a town that is so focused on gunmaking and hunting. You could spend days in the Ferlach museum digesting everything. I would like to go back by myself one day and spend more time there without any distraction. The whole town is just all about gunmaking and hunting.
I felt like the kid visiting Willie Wonkers Chocolate factory.

 

[PerH]

 

[PerH]

 

[SGW]

Not only do they make good hunting rifles but let’s not forget about the legendary Heckler & Koch. In my opinion they make the best military arms in the world.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I think we are missing some important cultural points here.

Your average German hunter tends to be a bit more well to do than the average American hunter. It is certainly more difficult (and more expensive) to get a Jagdschein than your average American ticket. This carries with it some other follow on requirements.

With more disposable income, your average Jaeger is going to be more willing to invest in his equipment. Similarly, the companies making the arms will be working towards different price-points. And, of course, their target market is much smaller, so much more focused. And hand work is valued.

In the US, the average hunter wants reasonable accuracy, reasonable reliability, and more than reasonable price. Mass production is king. And you can find an incredibly accurate rife for a very low price. Pretty? Hand worked? No. Dead on balls accurate? In spades. Your American gun company needs to sell many more weapons to stay in business, and at a competitive price. Oh, and your average American hunter is probably not going to travel farther than he can drive, let alone to Africa.

When I was in Poland, my guide was very happy with his Ruger American in .308. It did not cost the bleeding eyes out of his head, and it was as reliable and accurate as some more expensive arms.

I find the car comparison also interesting. Having lived in Germany, I noticed things. For example, the starting price on a BMW is much lower there... but that BMW is NOT available in the US. US spec cars will have leather seats, larger engines, and all kinds of other "standard equipment" that is an extra cost option in Germany. The domestic target customer is much different than the export customer. Of course, when you're willing and able to spend more, you'll get much more. As far as Porsche/Aston Martin? One is a street legal race car, the other a GT. They are not at all the same thing. Every engineering choice is a compromise. The Porsche prioritized track performance. The Aston had some different things in mind.

The whole discussion is apples and oranges.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I think the Ferlach makers are forced into producing more and more odd, “unique” over the top, impractical rifles. To stand out. Imagine one village with 20 hand made car MFG’s

But the Ferlach firearm makers more conservative, normal models are both art and function. Used Ferlach DR’s can be bought for a song. And are worth every penny.

And Rare Winchesters still sell for more then European rifles.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I’ve been to Africa several times and every time I’ve met Americans hunting in the same camps. Never met one German in camp or hunting on any of those trips.

There sure are some unusual distorted opinions, not facts, about Americans in this thread. Not sure why? Maybe some weird since of pride… You know what they say about pride? It’s a terrible thing to waste.

I don’t have a problem with Germans either. They created some great dogs:

I’ve owned several of those.

 

[HankBuck]

Tease picture of a fine Germanic piece.

View attachment 639635

@RR 314 - obviously they flew in an Italian to do that stock !!

 

[Red Leg]

If I was rich I’d get one of those double bolt actions for the fun of it.

And one of Peter Hambruch’s .700 nitro bolt guns. Same reason above.

The Ferlach guys sure don’t mind embracing the abnormal.

I'd save your money on the double. To date, I am unaware of anyone solving the double ejection issue on a double bolt rifle without having two individually operated bolts which sort of defeats the purpose.

 

[RR 314]

@RR 314 - obviously they flew in an Italian to do that stock !!

All done in house by a block headed German. Other side . . .

 

[Red Leg]

he made actions for Carlo casartelli also , here one that hallowed had a while ago it was a 375 h&h ,they also make a rimmed feed mauser

View attachment 639649View attachment 639650View attachment 639651

The action in that rifle has a military cut out - just saying.

 

[Red Leg]

All done in house by a block headed German. Other side . . .

I am not sure what your point is. The rifle has a lovely stock. Though I do not understand the leather covered pad. They were created by the British to allow smooth mounting without clothing drag of shotguns during driven shoots. Odd to see one on a rifle. Several of my pigeon guns have them, and they are excellent for that purpose.

This is a Craig Libhart .404. My only point is that American craftsmen are capable of making the equal of any rifles in the world and have been doing it for a very long time.

And a Bailey Bradshaw proprietary actioned "rising block" 7x65R

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

The action in that rifle has a military cut out - just saying.

I know the cut out was an available option on Prechtl actions. Could be a similar situation

 

[Red Leg]

I think we are missing some important cultural points here.

Your average German hunter tends to be a bit more well to do than the average American hunter. It is certainly more difficult (and more expensive) to get a Jagdschein than your average American ticket. This carries with it some other follow on requirements.

With more disposable income, your average Jaeger is going to be more willing to invest in his equipment. Similarly, the companies making the arms will be working towards different price-points. And, of course, their target market is much smaller, so much more focused. And hand work is valued.

In the US, the average hunter wants reasonable accuracy, reasonable reliability, and more than reasonable price. Mass production is king. And you can find an incredibly accurate rife for a very low price. Pretty? Hand worked? No. Dead on balls accurate? In spades. Your American gun company needs to sell many more weapons to stay in business, and at a competitive price. Oh, and your average American hunter is probably not going to travel farther than he can drive, let alone to Africa.

When I was in Poland, my guide was very happy with his Ruger American in .308. It did not cost the bleeding eyes out of his head, and it was as reliable and accurate as some more expensive arms.

I find the car comparison also interesting. Having lived in Germany, I noticed things. For example, the starting price on a BMW is much lower there... but that BMW is NOT available in the US. US spec cars will have leather seats, larger engines, and all kinds of other "standard equipment" that is an extra cost option in Germany. The domestic target customer is much different than the export customer. Of course, when you're willing and able to spend more, you'll get much more. As far as Porsche/Aston Martin? One is a street legal race car, the other a GT. They are not at all the same thing. Every engineering choice is a compromise. The Porsche prioritized track performance. The Aston had some different things in mind.

The whole discussion is apples and oranges.

The point that I think you are missing is that there are an enormous number of very well heeled American hunters who do invest in very fine firearms. While the proportionate differences may indeed be true - the US does have far more working class hunters, I suspect the overall number of American hunters with the means and desire to invest in fine firearms exceeds the UK and Germany combined. Many of them, opt to invest in bespoke American made rifles. rather than a European product.

 

[Red Leg]

I know the cut out was an available option on Prechtl actions. Could be a similar situation

Or a converted military action. The cut out makes no sense without stripper clips.