Deadly lethal moderate recoil 30-06 loads?

[Edge]

Just found this Barnes load with 130gr TTSX:

H4895 starting 52.5 fps 3071 max 55.5 fps 3276

I believe with H4895 you can start with as low as 60% of max if you desired to do so. Generally, the accuracy at the lowest load is poor but they do seem to get MOA as you ratchet up the powder, but still below the published "minimums".

130gr bullet going say 2600fps would be formidable.

Starting velocities @ 2600 fps, no need for a monolithic. Just grab a standard cup and core or one of lighter bonded bullets and you should be good to go. Mono's perform best with high velocity, I've used the 130 TTSX out of my 30-06 at max velocity with great accuracy. As the mono's slow down, the expansion characteristics also change with a smaller frontal area. Yes, they will penetrate but the wound channel is less and you will end up tracking them unless a CNS or broken shoulders stop them. There were a couple of instances of taking lung shots and watching the deer run off into the thick stuff in southern Alabama.

If you are sold on using a mono, you are on the right track with the 30-30 flat point version but run the velocity and bc through a calculator to see where in range it falls below 1800 fps. Another option, available on Midway now, is the Hornady 140 grain mono-metal flex tip designed for the 30-30, I have some loaded for a .307 Win lever action to try this year.

I don't use the 130 TTSX for deer anymore in my 30-06, I've gone back to a standard 150 gr soft point at ~2800 fps, bullets perform great at that speed and will penetrate. Another great bullet would be a 150 grain partition, great expansion and if you hit the shoulders, the rear portion will continue on.

 

[rookhawk]

An interesting data point. Hornady makes "Custom Lite" hunting loads and we've used them with great results for <200 yard deer hunting with .243 winchester.

I took a look at their low-recoil load for 30-06 and its a 125gr Hornady Interlock leaving the barrel at 2700fps. It putters out at 1879fps and 980ft lbs of energy at 300 yards and 10" of drop (200 yard zero).

That's a very respectable killing load for someone that hates recoil. I would think a barnes of equal weight would be even more devastating because the bullet would be volumetrically larger provided it expands correctly.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Starting velocities @ 2600 fps, no need for a monolithic. Just grab a standard cup and core or one of lighter bonded bullets and you should be good to go. Mono's perform best with high velocity, I've used the 130 TTSX out of my 30-06 at max velocity with great accuracy. As the mono's slow down, the expansion characteristics also change with a smaller frontal area. Yes, they will penetrate but the wound channel is less and you will end up tracking them unless a CNS or broken shoulders stop them. There were a couple of instances of taking lung shots and watching the deer run off into the thick stuff in southern Alabama.

If you are sold on using a mono, you are on the right track with the 30-30 flat point version but run the velocity and bc through a calculator to see where in range it falls below 1800 fps. Another option, available on Midway now, is the Hornady 140 grain mono-metal flex tip designed for the 30-30, I have some loaded for a .307 Win lever action to try this year.

I don't use the 130 TTSX for deer anymore in my 30-06, I've gone back to a standard 150 gr soft point at ~2800 fps, bullets perform great at that speed and will penetrate. Another great bullet would be a 150 grain partition, great expansion and if you hit the shoulders, the rear portion will continue on.

This!!! Standard cup & core bullets preform beautifully at those velocities. My Father started me with an 06 using IMR4064. Lyman lists 48grs & a 150gr bullet at just over 2600 fps. That’d be a good place to start. If you want a lighter load, I’d try a 125gr bullet at about 2400fps.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I wouldn't suggest lower than 130 gr (the SD of the 110 gr varmint bullets is such that it might expand too quickly-upon impact at worst) and if you do go that route, use the TTSX or eq.-more apt to penetrate and expand. How old is the kid? Some of the low-po, cheapo factory ammo (150 gr) is quite pleasant to shoot. They even have reduced loads for kids and women. If handloading, I'd go with this (accurate,) but 53 gr seems to be (Barnes) book min on most IMR powders, Varget, and those with a similar burn rate.

Bullet Wt. (gr)		Powder Type		Charge (gr)		Muzzle Vel. (fps)		K.E. (ft-lbs)		Pressure		Barrel Length (in)		Overall Length (in)
130​	​	IMR-4350​	​	55.0​	​	2,722​	​	2,139​	​	​	​	22.0​

 

[rookhawk]

I wouldn't suggest lower than 130 gr (the SD of the 110 gr varmint bullets is such that it might expand too quickly-upon impact at worst) and if you do go that route, use the TTSX or eq.-more apt to penetrate and expand. How old is the kid? Some of the low-po, cheapo factory ammo (150 gr) is quite pleasant to shoot. They even have reduced loads for kids and women. If handloading, I'd go with this (accurate,) but 53 gr seems to be (Barnes) book min on most IMR powders, Varget, and those with a similar burn rate.

Bullet Wt. (gr)		Powder Type		Charge (gr)		Muzzle Vel. (fps)		K.E. (ft-lbs)		Pressure		Barrel Length (in)		Overall Length (in)
130​	​	IMR-4350​	​	55.0​	​	2,722​	​	2,139​	​	​	​	22.0​

@C.W. Richter my youngest is 9. They do develop their skills fairly quickly but it needs to start "fun" and the first few hunts should be with reasonable loads as well. I'm sure by the time he's ten or eleven he'll be shooting off-the-shelf 06 loads but my argument is for the case at hand, its needless punishment.

Add to that, the gun I got him has fairly long wood and a horn butt plate and I'd really, really like to avoid chopping the stock (sin #1) and then chopping it 2x (sin #2) just to put a soft pad on a now truly screwed up high grade gun.

Some of these loads being suggested on this thread are pretty reasonable, 10lb-12lb recoil, which seems quite appropriate and won't discourage a shooter or create bad shooting habits.

It looks to me that the load you published out of a scoped gun weighing 9lbs, the recoil is 13.94ft lbs. Not too bad for certain. I would suspect that if I can find data for that exact same muzzle velocity and bullet, but using a powder like 4895 that would require fewer grains to accomplish the same work, it might bring the same performance to the hunter with only 10lbs-11lbs of recoil.

 

[93marlin]

View attachment 463203

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That is one beautiful rifle!

 

[SFRanger7GP]

When we were getting ready for our first trip to Africa, I bought Remington Managed Recoil 30-06 ammo loaded with 125gr Core-Lokt PSP bullet for my wife to practice with. It is about like a .243 according to her. Oddly, it shot to the same POA/POI as the Barnes ammo we were going to hunt with. She never notices recoil when hunting (as few people do). She killed a whitetail doe with that load at about 75 yards and the bullet exited.

Safe shooting

​

 

[C.W. Richter]

@C.W. Richter my youngest is 9. They do develop their skills fairly quickly but it needs to start "fun" and the first few hunts should be with reasonable loads as well. I'm sure by the time he's ten or eleven he'll be shooting off-the-shelf 06 loads but my argument is for the case at hand, its needless punishment.

Add to that, the gun I got him has fairly long wood and a horn butt plate and I'd really, really like to avoid chopping the stock (sin #1) and then chopping it 2x (sin #2) just to put a soft pad on a now truly screwed up high grade gun.

Some of these loads being suggested on this thread are pretty reasonable, 10lb-12lb recoil, which seems quite appropriate and won't discourage a shooter or create bad shooting habits.

It looks to me that the load you published out of a scoped gun weighing 9lbs, the recoil is 13.94ft lbs. Not too bad for certain. I would suspect that if I can find data for that exact same muzzle velocity and bullet, but using a powder like 4895 that would require fewer grains to accomplish the same work, it might bring the same performance to the hunter with only 10lbs-11lbs of recoil.

Yeah, i put both kids (son & daughter) on a min. handload 30-30 at that age (perfect) and then upgraded to the 06 by 12 or 13ish. As I used mine quite a bit, I didn't want to fool with it after sighting in with pet loads! Barnes book min. is showing 53.5 gr IMR 4895 (3,000 fps!) and Nos shows 48 gr H 4895 as min (also 3,000 fps) for 130 gr. Good luck. The kids' lives will be enhanced all the way through as a result of what you're doing...If they'll be wearing jackets, that extra couple ft-lbs will make no difference.

 

[C.W. Richter]

found this on another reloading forum...

IMR-4895​

​

48.0​

​

2,814​

​

2,198​

​

24.0​

 

[Rocco490]

Maybe look at the 150 grain nosler partition bullet starting out at about 2650-2700fps(53 grains of w760 or 55 grains imr 4831 (info via nosler)). This will shoot reasonably flat so still work for longer shots out to 300 yards without extreme drop to deal with, plus the soft front still opens well at those lower impact speeds. Not sure how good expansion will be on the monometals when speed drops off. I think the partition will give better wounding at the slower speeds. Best of luck hope you find a slower load the rifle likes.

30-06 Springfield Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

 

[Phil Giordano]

I realize I'm a bit on the vintage side, but I would suggest a Nosler Partition 150gr @ around 2500 fps. Find a powder that fill the case the most (IMR4831, Winch760, Norma 203B come to mind), and you'll have all the velocity you need to let the NP work at best : good mushroom, good penetration. It's a bullet you don't need to push fast to make it work - opposite, works perfectly at moderare velocity, exactly what you want.

 

[rookhawk]

found this on another reloading forum...

IMR-4895​

​

48.0​

​

2,814​

​

2,198​

​

24.0​

12.93 foot pounds of recoil.

 

[Areaonereal]

Try a light bullet and H 4895 for 30 30 replicate..

 

[rookhawk]

I realize I'm a bit on the vintage side, but I would suggest a Nosler Partition 150gr @ around 2500 fps. Find a powder that fill the case the most (IMR4831, Winch760, Norma 203B come to mind), and you'll have all the velocity you need to let the NP work at best : good mushroom, good penetration. It's a bullet you don't need to push fast to make it work - opposite, works perfectly at moderare velocity, exactly what you want.

Hi Phil, everything sounds fine but the filling the case, absolutely the opposite of what anyone wants for a nitro express or to mitigate recoil in any rifle whatsoever. All things being equal velocity, bullet weight, etc, the powder that achieves that velocity in the fewest grains has the least recoil. So 4831 would be the most severe of recoils, Reloader 15 and 4350 somewhat less, 3031 and 4895 even less.

 

[Areaonereal]

40.5 gr H4895. 125 gr bullet

 

[Phil Giordano]

Hi Phil, everything sounds fine but the filling the case, absolutely the opposite of what anyone wants for a nitro express or to mitigate recoil in any rifle whatsoever. All things being equal velocity, bullet weight, etc, the powder that achieves that velocity in the fewest grains has the least recoil. So 4831 would be the most severe of recoils, Reloader 15 and 4350 somewhat less, 3031 and 4895 even less.

Hello Rookhawk, yes I agree with you, the less powder you use to reach a given velocity, the less recoil you will have. It's just that I am a bit too focused on load density, for the accuracy department in most of my recipes. But you'll perfectly right as far as less recoil is the primary goal.

 

[rookhawk]

Hello Rookhawk, yes I agree with you, the less powder you use to reach a given velocity, the less recoil you will have. It's just that I am a bit too focused on load density, for the accuracy department in most of my recipes. But you'll perfectly right as far as less recoil is the primary goal.

@Phil Giordano that’s why I’m sort of interested in IMR4895, a powder I never really used before until loading for my son’s 375HH. When I look at load data for 4895, often times the load manuals say the lowest volume charge was the most accurate. (Weird, since in RL powders often times the 102% loads are known for accuracy)

The chit-chat on this post was helpful and thought provoking. I wanted to thank everyone chiming in. So it sounds to me like we have a gotcha to solve with bullets. Pure copper bullets are volumetrically bigger than lead so they should be more accurate with a better BC than lead in “lighter for caliber” loadings. But the astute folks that chimed in brought up the fact that a Barnes TSX or TTSX wants a pretty high velocity loading to get proper expansion.

In light of these factors, is there a company out there making copper monometals in 30 cal that are fairly soft, similar to a nosler ballistic tip or remington core lokt? I know NOTHING about the various e-tips, bergaras, RWS, and the pile of other less-well-known all copper bullets.

 

[ay2626]

@Phil Giordano that’s why I’m sort of interested in IMR4895, a powder I never really used before until loading for my son’s 375HH. When I look at load data for 4895, often times the load manuals say the lowest volume charge was the most accurate. (Weird, since in RL powders often times the 102% loads are known for accuracy)

The chit-chat on this post was helpful and thought provoking. I wanted to thank everyone chiming in. So it sounds to me like we have a gotcha to solve with bullets. Pure copper bullets are volumetrically bigger than lead so they should be more accurate with a better BC than lead in “lighter for caliber” loadings. But the astute folks that chimed in brought up the fact that a Barnes TSX or TTSX wants a pretty high velocity loading to get proper expansion.

In light of these factors, is there a company out there making copper monometals in 30 cal that are fairly soft, similar to a nosler ballistic tip or remington core lokt? I know NOTHING about the various e-tips, bergaras, RWS, and the pile of other less-well-known all copper bullets.

Might be worth looking at the Barnes 120-grain TAC-TX. Designed for supersonic 300 blk velocities around 2200 fps.

 

[K E Johnson]

I have never shot an all copper bullet at an animal to date. I never had a reason to.
I am looking at using some Hammer bullets. They say they will expand at down to at least to 1800 fps.
All the Hammer bullets I looked at are available. Rare in these times……..

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Barnes does make a 110 grain tac-tsx (?) for the 300 blackout.
I’m have a buddy who hunts with a 300 blackout. He uses 165 hornandy soft points.