Deadly lethal moderate recoil 30-06 loads?

[YancyW]

@Phil Giordano that’s why I’m sort of interested in IMR4895, a powder I never really used before until loading for my son’s 375HH. When I look at load data for 4895, often times the load manuals say the lowest volume charge was the most accurate. (Weird, since in RL powders often times the 102% loads are known for accuracy)

The chit-chat on this post was helpful and thought provoking. I wanted to thank everyone chiming in. So it sounds to me like we have a gotcha to solve with bullets. Pure copper bullets are volumetrically bigger than lead so they should be more accurate with a better BC than lead in “lighter for caliber” loadings. But the astute folks that chimed in brought up the fact that a Barnes TSX or TTSX wants a pretty high velocity loading to get proper expansion.

In light of these factors, is there a company out there making copper monometals in 30 cal that are fairly soft, similar to a nosler ballistic tip or remington core lokt? I know NOTHING about the various e-tips, bergaras, RWS, and the pile of other less-well-known all copper bullets.

Hammer Bullets. The owner is Steve Davis, if you tell him what you have in mind, he can help. Extremely good customer service.

 

[YancyW]

Barnes does make a 110 grain tac-tsx (?) for the 300 blackout.
I’m have a buddy who hunts with a 300 blackout. He uses 165 hornandy soft points.

I actually opened this back up to say this, the 110gr load made for the 300blk could be the ticket. They are made to shoot sub, so they should be GTG.

 

[RLL]

110 GR Noslers over 65-67gr of RL15 serve me and the young’ins well.

 

[Inline6]

Berger makes a 115gr FBHP, my boys have taken everything from hogs up to cow elk with Berger 105s moving at 3050. Just another option.

 

[cajunchefray]

An interesting data point. Hornady makes "Custom Lite" hunting loads and we've used them with great results for <200 yard deer hunting with .243 winchester.

I took a look at their low-recoil load for 30-06 and its a 125gr Hornady Interlock leaving the barrel at 2700fps. It putters out at 1879fps and 980ft lbs of energy at 300 yards and 10" of drop (200 yard zero).

That's a very respectable killing load for someone that hates recoil. I would think a barnes of equal weight would be even more devastating because the bullet would be volumetrically larger provided it expands correctly.

Hello Rook hawk,

Your boys are lucky to have you as a father teaching them hunting and working up to bigger load as age and growth happens.

My favorite "light load" in a 30-06 is from Speer Reloading Manual #14.

They have an inset paragraph stating that a start load of 42 grains over a 150 grain soft equates to 30-30 recoil. Range is 42 -46 grains,

I have found in my rifle (Ruger 77 Mark II Express), that a load of 44 grains of H4895 pushing a Hornady 150 grain RN, COAL lngth 3.13, Lee Factory Crimp, is very pleasant to shoot ( recoil about 12.5 foot pounds, recoil VELOCITY is only 9.44 fps, this I find for me is an important indicator of felt recoil, and much as Foot-Pounds.

Tested in wet newspaper, at 50 yards the bullet expands, and penetrated about 12-14" and stays together.

As an added bonus, it shoots "to the sights" of my Ruger Express, and nearly to the scope settings of the 165 grain Hornady SST 2950 fps load.

With the low recoil 12.5 Ft-LB and 10fps recoil velocity in a 9# rifle, I can shoot this all day long and my arthritic shoulder doesn't complain.

BTW, that is an extremely nice rifle, and surely a family heirloom.

Give H4895 a try, the 60% rule works, just find a load the rifle likes.

 

[7x57Joe]

For a light recoil load, I would try either a 125 Sierra or 130 Hornady bullet with 38 grains of Rx7 for around 2700 fps. This should duplicate the low recoil factory loads, be a hoot to shoot, and kill whitetails like a bolt of lightning.

 

[Rick Cox]

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Lucky kid!

 

[deewayne2003]

Rookhawk…. I load my ammo but when it comes to .30-06 Federal does the work for me.

The 30-06 Federal Fusion Lite with 170gr flat/round nose bullet is a great performer.

It’s simply their 170gr .30cal Fusion bullets used in their 30-30 factory ammo; loaded in 30-06 to 30-30 velocity.

I’ve been using them for years with youth hunters I guide and the low recoil and great performance on game is a win/win!

 

[JMM]

I have shot hundreds of WTs using the 110 grain TTSX. Driven fast, they work wonderfully. Mine clip along around 3500 fps and I don't considerate it to be a mild load. I do a lot of culling every year and want them to drop where I shoot. Trailing deer is a good way to lose valuable time when you have to clean, get to the walk in cooler by dark.

I load the rounds for a fellow culler. He has a very old 06 that has been in his family 80+ years. I load 150 grain Sierra Pro Hunters at 2600 fps. It is a mild load, does not recoil very much and is a killer of WT deer and cow elk.

 

[Marc Ret]

Rookhawk…. I load my ammo but when it comes to .30-06 Federal does the work for me.

The 30-06 Federal Fusion Lite with 170gr flat/round nose bullet is a great performer.

It’s simply their 170gr .30cal Fusion bullets used in their 30-30 factory ammo; loaded in 30-06 to 30-30 velocity.

I’ve been using them for years with youth hunters I guide and the low recoil and great performance on game is a win/win!

Unfortunately, I believe Federal discontinued that load.

 

[deewayne2003]

Unfortunately, I believe Federal discontinued that load.

That’s sad to hear, but I know they still make the 170gr fusion .30cal so now I’ll just have to break out the chrono and loading press.

 

[rookhawk]

Hello Rook hawk,

Your boys are lucky to have you as a father teaching them hunting and working up to bigger load as age and growth happens.

My favorite "light load" in a 30-06 is from Speer Reloading Manual #14.

They have an inset paragraph stating that a start load of 42 grains over a 150 grain soft equates to 30-30 recoil. Range is 42 -46 grains,

I have found in my rifle (Ruger 77 Mark II Express), that a load of 44 grains of H4895 pushing a Hornady 150 grain RN, COAL lngth 3.13, Lee Factory Crimp, is very pleasant to shoot ( recoil about 12.5 foot pounds, recoil VELOCITY is only 9.44 fps, this I find for me is an important indicator of felt recoil, and much as Foot-Pounds.

Tested in wet newspaper, at 50 yards the bullet expands, and penetrated about 12-14" and stays together.

As an added bonus, it shoots "to the sights" of my Ruger Express, and nearly to the scope settings of the 165 grain Hornady SST 2950 fps load.

With the low recoil 12.5 Ft-LB and 10fps recoil velocity in a 9# rifle, I can shoot this all day long and my arthritic shoulder doesn't complain.

BTW, that is an extremely nice rifle, and surely a family heirloom.

Give H4895 a try, the 60% rule works, just find a load the rifle likes.

@cajunchefray

I have IMR4895 powder but not H4895. I have a 130gr Speer hollow point, a 150gr nosler accubond, and a 155gr Hornady A-max. I think I have some other light Speer hot-cores as well but need to check their weight.

With the options I’ve got, do you have a 30-06 light recoil deer hunting load similar to the ones you‘re discussing above?

I also have IMR3031 if it happens to be an older load.

 

[rookhawk]

I found data in the Speer online catalog. The minimum load for a 150gr bullet using IMR4895, 45.5gr, at a velocity of 2543fps.

This load data appears to create about 13lbs of felt recoil.

The data in the speer online manual pertains to 4 different 150gr Speer lead-core, jacketed bullets.

Do you think it would be unwise to take that starting load data above but use the 150gr Nosler Accubonds I have in their place? The bullets are of roughly similar construction and the same weight.

*Sidenote: According to Nosler, the Accubonds are designed to expand properly at velocities down to 1800fps so it appears they would be just fine for the intended impact velocities inside of 225 yards, max.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I just picked up my youngest son a beautiful Ferlach 30-06 and I wanted to develop a modest recoil hunting load for him. (inside of 200 yards)

The load would be used for whitetails or hogs. I know a lighter bullet will help tremendously and I've heard 4895 is a potential powder.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

@rookhawk
The 130gn speer hollow poin works well on hog and fallow deer in Australia so should be just as effective over there. Start with the min load of 4895 and work up.
Bob

 

[Inline6]

I found data in the Speer online catalog. The minimum load for a 150gr bullet using IMR4895, 45.5gr, at a velocity of 2543fps.

This load data appears to create about 13lbs of felt recoil.

The data in the speer online manual pertains to 4 different 150gr Speer lead-core, jacketed bullets.

Do you think it would be unwise to take that starting load data above but use the 150gr Nosler Accubonds I have in their place? The bullets are of roughly similar construction and the same weight.

*Sidenote: According to Nosler, the Accubonds are designed to expand properly at velocities down to 1800fps so it appears they would be just fine for the intended impact velocities inside of 225 yards, max.

If they have the same bearing surface you will be fine.

 

[Desperatezulu]

Do you think it would be unwise to take that starting load data above but use the 150gr Nosler Accubonds I have in their place? The bullets are of roughly similar construction and the same weight.

*Sidenote: According to Nosler, the Accubonds are designed to expand properly at velocities down to 1800fps so it appears they would be just fine for the intended impact velocities inside of 225 yards, max.

I'm sure you will be fine, although the equivalent starting load for an Accubond would probably be lower. The AB is quite a hard bullet and pressure builds quite quickly in my experience. So don't be surprised if you achieve slightly higher velocities - you could then download a little.
And don't get your hopes up too much about the expansion - I have shot hundreds of animals with ABs and recovered less than 5 bullets, the rest have been pass throughs. With MVs ranging from 2700-3000f/s. At 2500f/s MV, I have my doubts about expansion at any range.

My 2c to throw in here - if using loads that have low case fills, fill the case volume with dacron filler to hold the powder in place at the bottom of the case. You do not want to any odd powder burn behaviour or 'detonations'...

Bear in mind that recoil is characterised by Newtons 3rd Law - for every action/force, there is an equal and opposite reaction/force. The kinetic energy departing the muzzle can be estimated using the formula Ek = 0.5mv^2. The reason for the high school physics is to consider the two constituents that contribute to energy and thus recoil. A x% reduction in velocity will have a significantly greater impact on reducing recoil than an x% reduction in bullet mass (technically we must consider bullet + powder mass, and not forget that lighter bullets go hand in hand with heavier powder charges, so when we switch to lighter bullets we do not get the full weight saving unless the powder mass stays constant). There are some other considerations like the jet effect of the gases etc but enough of the nerd stuff for now!

A secondary consideration is that lighter powder charges do not always translate to lower felt recoil - many of the reduced powder charges rely on faster burning powders that yield steeper pressure curves and thus punchier recoil. While the overall energy balance may suggest that the recoil force is less, the felt recoil may indeed be more unpleasant because of the nature of the faster pressure/recoil curve.

I would steer clear of monos in this application because of their need for speed, as has been said. I'd aim for a 150gr cup&core at 2350f/s or thereabouts and see how it goes. The low velocity will mean the bullet performs fine in terms of penetration and expansion. Yes bullet drop at 200 will be around 6" so this basic hunting skill would be required (or zero at 150).
If the recoil is still a problem, then I'd reconsider the caliber choice here.

Pity a suppressor is not an option.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Inside 200 yards? Moderate velocity/recoil?

I would use a 165 improved cup and core bullet - maybe a 165grain CoreLokt. Usable across a wide range of hunting, accurate as needed, expands well at lower velocities.

 

[Brian]

Cutting Edge Bullets 100gr - 130 gr Raptors. Brian

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
The 130gn speer hollow poin works well on hog and fallow deer in Australia so should be just as effective over there. Start with the min load of 4895 and work up.
Bob

BoB, you’re missing the plot.

I’m using imr4895. I can use the starting load, but probably will start and finish below that. 4895 allows a starting load of as low as 60% of published maximum.

I just need a 200 yard lethal low-recoil load that a kid can shoot. Because I’m not chopping the stock or putting on a recoil pad that will devalue the gun by a fortune. I’m not putting on a muzzle brake or suppressor for the same reason.

Sorry if I sound a bit frustrated. I have a huge pile of reloading supplies and am trying to find a workable load. A lot of the advice is go buy different stuff.

I’ll upload a pic of what I have and anyone can comment on what is the best choice.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

BoB, you’re missing the plot.

I’m using imr4895. I can use the starting load, but probably will start and finish below that. 4895 allows a starting load of as low as 60% of published maximum.

I just need a 200 yard lethal low-recoil load that a kid can shoot. Because I’m not chopping the stock or putting on a recoil pad that will devalue the gun by a fortune. I’m not putting on a muzzle brake or suppressor for the same reason.

Sorry if I sound a bit frustrated. I have a huge pile of reloading supplies and am trying to find a workable load. A lot of the advice is go buy different stuff.

I’ll upload a pic of what I have and anyone can comment on what is the best choice.

@rookhawk
Load it down with the 60% load and a 125 gn nosler balistic tip and it will be very mild and still take deer out to 200 yards.
The recoil of that load is like a kittens caress
Bob