Controlled round feed for Dangerous Game

[Donnstar]

I handled a Blaser at DSC in January. I did not know how to work it. Someone had to demonstrate the action to me. As a firm believer in muscle memory, switching to an unfamiliar action does not work for me. I appreciate many of the attributes unique to the Blaser but not enough to switch after fifty years of a standard bolt. As far as feeding, everything is prone to problems. Just work through it and hunt!

 

[Inline6]

Every now and then I'll have a neighbor poke their head out. Being able to explain away snap caps is pretty easy, live rounds are another story with the "blue" community I live in. Otherwise I would have done both outside.

Sounds like you need to move to Texas, lol.

 

[saswart]

BeeMaa, your testing procedure gave me a little chuckle, using the snap caps outside and the live rounds inside, ( I rack my sidearm to chamber a live round inside so not giving any grief), but it still caused me to chuckle. When I get a chance I am going to try that with my pushfeed m70 to see how well it works with my rifle as well, hanks for sharing that info.

Your pushfeed model 70 with live/heavy rounds will feed flawlessly. However, if you cycle very very slowly (which one never would in stressed scenario) then the round will simple fall out.

I have done this numerous times with my own Model 70 (post 64, i.e., also push feed) and CZ 550 CRF to show people, no, the "big bad reason to stay away from PF rifles are that you cannot load it when on your back and the buffalo is about to trample you" is all a bunch of crap. You can load all 3 types upside down, being CRF (Rigby/CZ/ other Mauser 98 types, Model 70 pre 64 and newer), PF (Model 70 post 64, certain Remingtons) and then your Blaser/Sako's which are more PF type

 

[Inline6]

I handled a Blaser at DSC in January. I did not know how to work it. Someone had to demonstrate the action to me. As a firm believer in muscle memory, switching to an unfamiliar action does not work for me. I appreciate many of the attributes unique to the Blaser but not enough to switch after fifty years of a standard bolt. As far as feeding, everything is prone to problems. Just work through it and hunt!

That was my original concern myself. Have several hundred cycles dry firing it was pretty fluid. After several thousand dry fires I was pretty confident. I was also concerned that it would be an issue with shooting my other rifles. Have straight pull, 60°,70° and 90° bolt throws. At this point it doesn't matter, if the rifle is in hand, muscle memory does the rest. If I'm using the R8 for an upcoming hunt, I'll still dry fire. The truth is no matter what rifle (other than my 22s) I dry fire before mathes or hunts several hundred times. It is just something I do to up my success (it is a mental game of me knowing that trigger and scope reticle).

 

[WAB]

That was my original concern myself. Have several hundred cycles dry firing it was pretty fluid. After several thousand dry fires I was pretty confident. I was also concerned that it would be an issue with shooting my other rifles. Have straight pull, 60°,70° and 90° bolt throws. At this point it doesn't matter, if the rifle is in hand, muscle memory does the rest. If I'm using the R8 for an upcoming hunt, I'll still dry fire. The truth is no matter what rifle (other than my 22s) I dry fire before mathes or hunts several hundred times. It is just something I do to up my success (it is a mental game of me knowing that trigger and scope reticle).

That’s good to hear. I have toyed with the idea of an R8 (@BeeMaa is very persuasive). However, I picked one up at DSC and I immediately bound up trying to lift the bolt handle. I assumed I was too old and stupid to master it, but perhaps there’s hope!

 

[mark-hunter]

I see there are big bore push feed rifles from Sako and Remington.

I think my Tikka T3 .308 will feed reliably in unusual positions is the CRF feed advice relating to old push feed rifle design issues?

Sako 85 has been produced in large calibers. But now is phased out, and new gun is Sako 90, available only up till 375 HH (for now).
But sako 85 is claimed to be controlled round feed as per company web site.

Tikka t3 feeds reliably in all positions, it is good example of reliable push feed.
Old push feeds basically are remington 700, so I dont think this discussion of which is better comes from that source

Finally, there is Larry Potterfield favorite rifle, remington 700, explaining in detail.

In recent years many clients go to Africa with Blaser r8 for dangerous game.

So, all in all, it is equal and individual choice between following.
Controlled round feed.
Push feed
Or, modern straight pull rifle.

Just take your pick.

 

[Inline6]

That’s good to hear. I have toyed with the idea of an R8 (@BeeMaa is very persuasive). However, I picked one up at DSC and I immediately bound up trying to lift the bolt handle. I assumed I was too old and stupid to master it, but perhaps there’s hope!

Did the same thing myself. It did not take long to get the hang of it. Liked it enough that I have 2.5 rifles (I'm still waiting for my 7PRC barrel to be completed). 458LOTT, 375H&H, and 7PRC (when the barrel comes in). I know, you can run all the barrels one stock. I also like to grab a rifle and go too. I probably would not go out of my way to buy another stock for a barrel. Unless the right deal pops up.

 

[BeeMaa]

@WAB & @Donnstar - I had 40+ years of working the bolt on a traditional rifle before getting a Blaser. It took me about 3 minutes of dry-fire practice to work it out. Easier than you think.

Look at it this way. How many of the members here have hunted DG with both a bolt action rifle and a double? Has any one of them gotten it mixed up and tried to break open the action on a traditional rifle like a double? I seriously doubt it.

Is it different...of course. Is it worth it...that's up to you. And there in, lies the rub.

 

[colorado]

 

[BeeMaa]

No call for all that.

 

[Inline6]

 

[colorado]

Just a troll

 

[mdsalern]

I handled the R8 pretty extensively at the DSC show. I didn’t like the feel of the plastic safety or that my thumb would get wedged between the safety and the scope on the display model.

 

[WAB]

No call for all that.

But it is funny!

 

[Red Leg]

That’s good to hear. I have toyed with the idea of an R8 (@BeeMaa is very persuasive). However, I picked one up at DSC and I immediately bound up trying to lift the bolt handle. I assumed I was too old and stupid to master it, but perhaps there’s hope!

I am pretty sure I have nearly 10 years on you, and it is a very easy transition. Of course I was able to rid myself of my flip phone as well. We even had AT&T pull the land line.

I know you can do it.

 

[BeeMaa]

I like how R8 owners have taken a CRF for DG thread and turned it into...why you should get a R8 for DG.

Just a troll.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I have had to tune feeding on both push feed and CRF - but CRF more frequently.

There are handling differences between CRF and push feed.
If you choose push feed for DG then you should probably shoot push feed throughout your practice and even when hunting at home.

The main thing that concerns me about push feed is that it is possible to have a round in the chamber and not see it when you open the bolt (because you never closed the bolt completely).
It is also more likely to double feed if mishandled due to inattention or stress.

I believe that a person who usually shoots CRF is more likely to make these mistakes when shooting a push feed.
A well tuned CRF is idiot proof!

I will say that the Sako 85 action does pick up the round earlier than a 700 style action and mitigates some of these issues.

Your pushfeed model 70 with live/heavy rounds will feed flawlessly. However, if you cycle very very slowly (which one never would in stressed scenario) then the round will simple fall out.

I have done this numerous times with my own Model 70 (post 64, i.e., also push feed) and CZ 550 CRF to show people, no, the "big bad reason to stay away from PF rifles are that you cannot load it when on your back and the buffalo is about to trample you" is all a bunch of crap. You can load all 3 types upside down, being CRF (Rigby/CZ/ other Mauser 98 types, Model 70 pre 64 and newer), PF (Model 70 post 64, certain Remingtons) and then your Blaser/Sako's which are more PF type

Sako 85 has been produced in large calibers. But now is phased out, and new gun is Sako 90, available only up till 375 HH (for now).
But sako 85 is claimed to be controlled round feed as per company web site.

Tikka t3 feeds reliably in all positions, it is good example of reliable push feed.
Old push feeds basically are remington 700, so I dont think this discussion of which is better comes from that source

Finally, there is Larry Potterfield favorite rifle, remington 700, explaining in detail.

In recent years many clients go to Africa with Blaser r8 for dangerous game.

So, all in all, it is equal and individual choice between following.
Controlled round feed.
Push feed
Or, modern straight pull rifle.

Just take your pick.

Sako 85 is CRF

 

[The Engineer]

I competed with a push feed Remington 40x and you learn to hit the bolt stop every time you cycle the action. Doing that I never had a misfeed in thousands of rounds. I did have a failure to extract due to an extractor failure. For hunting a PF rifle is bit noisier chambering a round from the magazine as you cannot avoid the click as the extractor pops over the case base. With a little practice you can almost silently feed a round from the magazine of a good CRF rifle.

With respect to feeding issues, if the magazine lips and box are properly shaped and not rough the rifle should feed. The smoothest feeding bolt rifle I have ever had is my Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby. It literally cycles effortlessly even in the difficult to feed 416 Rigby caliber. On the express rifles Heym machines the box and feed lips one each rifle for the specific cartridge it is barreled in. That means the machined box has the shape of the cartridge which prevents recoil from mangling bullet noses and the support makes it smoother feeding by keeping the cartridges to the back of the magazine so the bullets do no rub as the start up. The lips on the receiver are also machined specifically for that rifle's caliber to insure capture by the extractor and optimum presentation to the chamber..

On most high production rifles they have a "standard" box that is used for all calibers of a given length and generic feed lips. If the rifle cartridge shape is too far from the shape of the cartridge the lips were originally optimized for there are sometimes issues. Knowing how to reshape the lips for flawless feeding on a rebarrel or custom rifle is why you want a Gunsmith that really understands what is required for reliable feeding whether it is a CRF or a PF. Gunsmiths with that understanding/capability are to be prized.

 

[colorado]

I competed with a push feed Remington 40x and you learn to hit the bolt stop every time you cycle the action. Doing that I never had a misfeed in thousands of rounds. I did have a failure to extract due to an extractor failure. For hunting a PF rifle is bit noisier chambering a round from the magazine as you cannot avoid the click as the extractor pops over the case base. With a little practice you can almost silently feed a round from the magazine of a good CRF rifle.

With respect to feeding issues, if the magazine lips and box are properly shaped and not rough the rifle should feed. The smoothest feeding bolt rifle I have ever had is my Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby. It literally cycles effortlessly even in the difficult to feed 416 Rigby caliber. On the express rifles Heym machines the box and feed lips one each rifle for the specific cartridge it is barreled in. That means the machined box has the shape of the cartridge which prevents recoil from mangling bullet noses and the support makes it smoother feeding by keeping the cartridges to the back of the magazine so the bullets do no rub as the start up. The lips on the receiver are also machined specifically for that rifle's caliber to insure capture by the extractor and optimum presentation to the chamber..

On most high production rifles they have a "standard" box that is used for all calibers of a given length and generic feed lips. If the rifle cartridge shape is too far from the shape of the cartridge the lips were originally optimized for there are sometimes issues. Knowing how to reshape the lips for flawless feeding on a rebarrel or custom rifle is why you want a Gunsmith that really understands what is required for reliable feeding whether it is a CRF or a PF. Gunsmiths with that understanding/capability are to be prized.

Great post! When I first got my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery it would occasionaly not feed a round, which was absolutely unacceptable in a DGR. After sending it back to the CZ Custom Shop as well as another well know gunsmith, feeding was smoother but the problem remained. Kevin Weaver took one look at it and said the magazine follower was machined for the "fat" 500 Jeffery cartridge. That fixed it. It feeds and extracts fast, slow upside down whatever. He thought they just used a 416 Rigby magazine follower.

 

[IvW]

Sako 85 is CRF

Nope only partially.....