Combo plains game and Dangerous Game scope

[Philip Glass]

Is it an option to get both optics and put them in quick release rings? I love
Both your options-would be happy with either but I can see advantages to either as well. . .

The R8's system is quick release. That is the beauty of it.

 

[Philip Glass]

Quick math explanation because people get lost in the topic of light gathering in scopes. You know, you have to get a big 50mm scope because of light gathering, etc?

A typical male over the age of 40 has a maximum pupil dilation of around 6mm. (A young kid with great vision might reach almost 8mm).

So, let’s work the math. A 1-6x24mm optic set at 6x is transmitted 6/24=4mm. But at 4x, you are literally getting all the light through an optic that your over-40 years pupil is going to take in anyway for those low-light situations.

What is the average shooting distance for low-light, dawn/dusk hunting? A leopard blind is typically set at 70 yards. Dangerous game hunting of all types, in aggregate, in the Boddington study found the average shot distance was 38 yards. 38 yards taking in all of those extreme distance shots on Buffalo past 100 yards, you’re still at 38 yard average.

So for DG hunting you’re probably setting your power to 1x and an absolute max of 3x magnification for those 10 yard to 120 yard shots. Your light gathering with a 1-6x24mm set at 3x is passing 8mm of light gathering yet your eyes can only absorb 6mm best-case. Light gathering even on the 1-6x24mm is wasted.

The scenarios that come up in hunting where someone needs a 40mm or 50mm exit objective lens, or a 7x-12x zoom range are very, very rare. The consumer’s false belief they need it is why they are common, not because they are actually solving a problem.

The OP wants a DG AND PG scope. Very little PG will be taken at 38 yards. Interesting info however.

 

[Philip Glass]

Anyone who has had a buffalo run towards them would probably prefer a 1x something. I'd suggest maybe start there?

As has been mentioned here there is no difference between 1x, 1.7x, and 2x in those scenarios. I had a charging leopard that I shot with the Leupold on 2x. A different scope (ie 1x) would not have made any difference.

 

[BeeMaa]

I have a Blaser R8 375H&H and chose the Swaro Z8i 1-8x24 with the 4A-IF reticle.

8x magnification will exceed the limits of the cartridge and my abilities. True 1x at the low end to use like a RDO with both eyes open. Illuminated reticle to be able to see the crosshairs on a dark animal standing in the shade.

I know these are not for everyone because of preference or financial considerations, but if you are able to at least look at one and compare it to another…you may find some funds freeing up. Good luck with it.

 

[Fatback]

I’ve got the VX5 2-10 firedots on my 375H&Hs. I will also put one on my 416 Rem Mag once I get it. My 458 Win has the VX5 1-5 firedot. These have served me well.

 

[Inline6]

1-6x24mm extended eye relief is the classic do-all scope for DG game plus PG shots out to 350 yards.

I would never sacrifice low rings and 1x straight tube in exchange to get more top-end zoom.

The USMC and US Army were using 10x fixed optics for targets between 600 and 1000 meters. If we can’t shoot 1/3rd that distance with a 6x power, it’s a user problem.

I’m not a particularly good shot as any that have seen me shoot can attest. Nonetheless, the farthest shot I’ve ever taken under extremely peculiar circumstances was 347 yards on a bushbuck with a 375HH using a 1-6x scope. Anything with more zoom than that doesn’t make me a better shooter, it just lets me see how terrible a shot I am at greater magnification.

That was a limitation of the time, as far as your comment of USMC and the Army. They were also shooting larger targets 36" tall 24" wide(I might be off a few inches one way or the other).

You are correct, it can be done. It is much easier with more magnification IMHO.

Like mentioned above I find the Swarovski Z8i 1.7-13.3X42 to be the ideal 375H&H scope. It lets you take full advantage of that round. Again JMHO.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

For close fast shooting, quick acquisition is paramount. For forty years I stalked deer, elk, and moose in timber with a 3x Weaver on my 30-06 and it killed a ton of animals (actually several tons). When I switched to hunting plains for mule deer, I upgraded to a 3-9x Nikon but it only saw 9x for range and occasional ID of distant game. I've made a couple of longish shots with it in Montana and Africa but don't recall ever turning it up above 5x. The Springfield's stock is slight Monte Carlo which works well with this scope for fast acquisition. A lower comb would not be as quick. Even on the plains I've had to make some fast shots, several on the fly. I can mount this gun quickly with my eyes closed and when opened the full field of view is there instantly.

My 404 now wears a 1-5x 30mm scope with Warne low QD rings and a very low discontinued Weaver 1-piece base. This is an ideal setup for dangerous game, and with the right bullets I'm sure it will work well for plains game. I wanted a scope with adequate eye relief (the old Weaver 3x took a chunk out of my eyebrow), fast acquisition, and wide field of view. 30mm was thicker than I would have liked but the price was right. I could easily unload it and make money if it didn't work out. Seems to fit the bill. The only minor drawback is the front sight ghosts in field of view on lower magnification. This is doubtless due to very low mount (I had to shave the bolt handle for clearance). But raise the mount and sacrifice quick acquisition. Also I want to be firmly down on the gun to mitigate recoil.

A classic lower comb is typical for iron sights but doesn't always work well for fast acquisition of a mounted scope, especially one with a large bell that requires a higher mount. One also wants to be on the gun snuggly for hard recoil rifles. Cheek up in the air hunting for field of view = increased felt recoil. The gun is more likely to jump up rather than push back. Mind you, a high comb will do the same. For super high recoiling rifles, a high comb can bruise the cheek. The shooter needs to balance all factors with the desired purpose.

 

[RichieG]

Not trying to argue or be disrespectful but a friend who took multiple Cape Buffalo in the 1970’s used a fixed power 4X and some were right close.

For sure you are right it can be, and has been done and respect to those people. Just questioning on a charge if you would choose 4x if you could have 1x ? Each to their own but most people I know would go low power with a broad FOV. I've hunted buff with 3x and wouldn't do that again.

 

[375Fox]

For sure you are right it can be, and has been done and respect to those people. Just questioning on a charge if you would choose 4x if you could have 1x ? Each to their own but most people I know would go low power with a broad FOV. I've hunted buff with 3x and wouldn't do that again.

That sounds more like a field of view issue on your particular scope. I’ve set up buffalo skulls at 2x to know what I could see in charge. I can’t tell a functional difference except with 1x the barrel is in the scope.

 

[Neophyte]

For sure you are right it can be, and has been done and respect to those people. Just questioning on a charge if you would choose 4x if you could have 1x ? Each to their own but most people I know would go low power with a broad FOV. I've hunted buff with 3x and wouldn't do that again.

Only having been charged by domestic cattle of the bovine species, with no firearm, I’d probably prefer a red dot optic.

I get what you’re saying and I don’t disagree with you. I’m just stating what he told me he used and he has over ten shoulder mounts on his wall and also did some culling. He also took cape buffalo with a .338 Win Mag as well. My thought is that a 2 power wouldn’t be a problem but I can tell you I prefer the 1.5 power on my 45-70 in bear country over a 3 power.

I’m looking at something from a 1.5 to 2 power on the lower end with a 10 or 12 power on the upper end to utilize the versatility of the cartridge. We tend to hunt more plains game than dangerous game so why not utilize the versatility of the cartridge?

 

[YancyW]

For the first 45ish years of my life I was blessed with incredible eyesight, even past 40, I was still better than 20/20 in both eyes. But a couple years ago, I hit a wall and joined the ranks of those whose eyesight degrades with age.

The fine differences in quality on glass aren't near as clear to me, light gathering is all the same, or very near to it. I still have all the top end glass I have purchased over the years, and it should last me the rest of my life, but I would be full of it to claim I can tell the difference in the way I used to.

1-8 and 2-12 aren't much different to me at all. I have trained a bunch of a 4x ACOG, so I know for a fact you can pick up a target at close and fast ranges, you just need to practice. If I had to pick the LPVO scope to use in low light and very close, it would be a NX8, but if I had a 2-10 Mark 5, I would be just as well off. My success wouldn't depend on the scope, it would depend on my base level abitily and it is directly related to practice.

 

[RichieG]

Only having been charged by domestic cattle of the bovine species, with no firearm, I’d probably prefer a red dot optic.

I get what you’re saying and I don’t disagree with you. I’m just stating what he told me he used and he has over ten shoulder mounts on his wall and also did some culling. He also took cape buffalo with a .338 Win Mag as well. My thought is that a 2 power wouldn’t be a problem but I can tell you I prefer the 1.5 power on my 45-70 in bear country over a 3 power.

I’m looking at something from a 1.5 to 2 power on the lower end with a 10 or 12 power on the upper end to utilize the versatility of the cartridge. We tend to hunt more plains game than dangerous game so why not utilize the versatility of the cartridge?

Sounds perfectly sensible and definitely is a matter of personal choice. For me 1x means I can keep both eyes open. Like a red dot. Definitely not saying it’s the only solution!

 

[Neophyte]

Sounds perfectly sensible and definitely is a matter of personal choice. For me 1x means I can keep both eyes open. Like a red dot. Definitely not saying it’s the only solution!

You should be able to keep both eyes open at 2X.

 

[Datchew]

@Philip Glass
Great video.

 

[rookhawk]

Only having been charged by domestic cattle of the bovine species, with no firearm, I’d probably prefer a red dot optic.

I get what you’re saying and I don’t disagree with you. I’m just stating what he told me he used and he has over ten shoulder mounts on his wall and also did some culling. He also took cape buffalo with a .338 Win Mag as well. My thought is that a 2 power wouldn’t be a problem but I can tell you I prefer the 1.5 power on my 45-70 in bear country over a 3 power.

I’m looking at something from a 1.5 to 2 power on the lower end with a 10 or 12 power on the upper end to utilize the versatility of the cartridge. We tend to hunt more plains game than dangerous game so why not utilize the versatility of the cartridge?

When you go down to true 1x or close to it, it allows you to use binocular vision. That's one of the strongest benefits of a 1-6 or 1-8 versus a 1.7-X.

If I remember correctly, a 375HH with a 100 yard zero and a 300gr bullet has about 29" of drop at 350 yards and 43" at 400 yards? The firing solutions required to shoot farther are the limiting factor long before magnification zoom becomes the short leg on the stool.

In more than a dozen safaris and about 50 animals, shooting plains in the Tuli circle, velles near the Matopas, or hunting the beaches of the Zambezi valley for Waterbuck and Bushbuck, the longest shots I've ever encountered were 347 yards for a bushbuck, 231 yards for an impala, and roughly 250 yards for a Hyena. Loads of stuff in that 180 yard range, which of course was easy to accomplish at 4x zoom with great clarity in a good scope. (Klippspringers, Zebras, Steinboks, loads of impala, etc.)

 

[TERMINATOR]

Thoughts on 2x12x42 vs 1x6x24 for a combo plains game DG Scope? This will be on a 375 H&H Blaser R8. Either one will be a Leupold VX6HD with Fire dot. DG will be mostly Buffalo

Get the 2x12 Leupold VX6HD
All you need for up close and out to 300 yards+

Problem Solved

 

[UpNorthMI]

I'm with BeeMaa "I have a Blaser R8 375H&H and chose the Swaro Z8i 1-8x24 with the 4A-IF reticle". I shot game out to 220 yards with this set up on my last Africa hunt.

My son and I both used Barnes TSX 300gn ammo for buffalo cow culling all 1 shot kills.

 

[375Fox]

When you go down to true 1x or close to it, it allows you to use binocular vision. That's one of the strongest benefits of a 1-6 or 1-8 versus a 1.7-X.

If I remember correctly, a 375HH with a 100 yard zero and a 300gr bullet has about 29" of drop at 350 yards and 43" at 400 yards? The firing solutions required to shoot farther are the limiting factor long before magnification zoom becomes the short leg on the stool.

In more than a dozen safaris and about 50 animals, shooting plains in the Tuli circle, velles near the Matopas, or hunting the beaches of the Zambezi valley for Waterbuck and Bushbuck, the longest shots I've ever encountered were 347 yards for a bushbuck, 231 yards for an impala, and roughly 250 yards for a Hyena. Loads of stuff in that 180 yard range, which of course was easy to accomplish at 4x zoom with great clarity in a good scope. (Klippspringers, Zebras, Steinboks, loads of impala, etc.)

I’ve shot game at 5x with 375 H&H out to 330 yards. It can be done. My bullets went where they were supposed to. However nothing replaces the confidence of knowing where your shot is actually going if you can increase the power to 10 or 12 at that distance. I know what a bushbuck or impala looks like at 350 yards at 5x. You’re trusting the practice you did at the range. You can’t see the detail to know where that shot is actually going on the animal. I’ve never used the lowest power setting except walking up to an animal after down. I give more value to the higher range of a scope than the lowest. I see no functional difference between 1x and 2x.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I’ve shot game at 5x with 375 H&H out to 330 yards. It can be done. My bullets went where they were supposed to. However nothing replaces the confidence of knowing where your shot is actually going if you can increase the power to 10 or 12 at that distance. I know what a bushbuck or impala looks like at 350 yards at 5x. You’re trusting the practice you did at the range. You can’t see the detail to know where that shot is actually going on the animal. I’ve never used the lowest power setting except walking up to an animal after down. I give more value to the higher range of a scope than the lowest. I see no functional difference between 1x and 2x.

Yes

Shooting a Eland or Zebra at 300 yards is much more doable w 5x than say…an Impala or Bushbuck or Duiker

A 2x12 is much better at the longer end than 5x and 2x on the low end is hardly different than 1x

I personally feel that a 2x12 on a 375 is the true dual purpose PG/DG setup that makes the most sense

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I must say I do like the 1-5x 30mm "tactical" scope I put on my 404J this year. Better than I thought it would be. The field of view is downright immense and very bright. Main concern was getting the thicker scope tube low enough for fast acquisition. I found the perfect combination of rings and bases. Fortunately, the reticle was simple duplex, no Christmas tree or electricity. Turrets are simple covered. With no bell on the end I was able to drop the scope very low. Doesn't look terribly classy but it works. Came with an iron clad lifetime warrantee and less than $175 price tag. What's not to like?