Closed borders

[JGRaider]

Wow, you guys are amazing. I suspect that I am more conservative than either of you. I am certain that I have more knowledge of gene editing than either of you since I was responsible for a research team in this space prior to retirement. I will leave you to enjoy what you believe to be the facts.

Then again, there's likely folks a lot smarter than you that agree with me.

 

[Saul]

The boat on taxpayer funded social programs in this country has sailed long ago, and likely never to return to port. Every taxpayer pays for the poor choices of others whether we choose to or not.. I only mentioned it because you seemed to draw some moral distinction between the potential cost of potentially treating the unvaccinated, compared to the millions of others we already provide care for on the taxpayer's dime who have chosen to disregard their own personal health responsibilities

Fortunately, I have excellent heath care that I pay for myself so don't worry about the financial burden I may impose upon you. I had Covid about a year ago to date. I have both antibodies and T-cells. I have yet to be vaccinated. According to the "science" that we all love to refer to, natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than vaccinated immunity. Despite the CDC's latest propaganda, to date there is no evidence that suggests recovered, naturally immune individuals can spread Covid. Am I selfishly endangering others by not getting vaccinated?

That is a discussion between you and your doctor. However, since those who want the vax can get it, do as you please, you will not infect anyone who has not made the choice not be be vaccinated.

 

[BSO Dave]

That is a discussion between you and your doctor. However, since those who want the vax can get it, do as you please, you will not infect anyone who has not made the choice not be be vaccinated.

I already asked my doctor. Since you have imposed your opinion on those who are electing not to get vaccinated, I was asking you. Based on whatever data you have used to formulate your opinions, do you think I am selfishly endangering anyone?

BTW, my decision no to be vaccinated is based on the advice of several doctors I have consulted. And, according to the "science" they ascribe to, I cannot infect anyone vaccinated or not.

 

[Saul]

I already asked my doctor. Since you have imposed your opinion on those who are electing not to get vaccinated, I was asking you. Based on whatever data you have used to formulate your opinions, do you think I am selfishly endangering anyone?

BTW, my decision no to be vaccinated is based on the advice of several doctors I have consulted. And, according to the "science" they ascribe to, I cannot infect anyone vaccinated or not.

I am not a medical doctor, let alone a virologist. It seems to me like you have done your due diligence by consulting several doctors and are therefore making the decision that you think is best. More power to you.

If this were not the case, you were able to be a carrier, and you chose not to get vaccinated or take precautionary measures such as wearing a mask in public, then I would personally view that as selfish behavior, but again, that is only my opinion and I do not think anyone should be forced to act in line with my opinions.

 

[ActionBob]

I should add that while desperately attempting to survive the CDC recommended treatment for Covid-19 symptoms, I encountered many medical professionals who were not vaccinated for whatever reasons.

The anecdotal evidence I've seen and heard is that for those who survived Covid-19, and after got the shot.... There are a lot more getting seriously ill and dying than those who got the shot before becoming infected.

In my opinion, it's quite a risk to get the shot during and after recovery. And the doctors who took time to develop an opinion and not blindly listen to the government guidelines, told me to wait at least several months and admitted they didn't know if I would have persistent antibodies for COVID-19.

However I was inundated by personal and phone solicitations to get the shot as soon as I was discharged. These were not doctors or nurses. Simply hospital business office staff and people manning the phones going down the list. Many stories out here of older folks especially who fall for that and end up right back in the hospital and too often die.

 

[lwaters]

Bob couldn't you get tested for antibodies? Than if they start showing a drop get the shot. May be a long time before they drop. That's what my stepdaughter doing.

 

[Just Gina]

I am not a medical doctor, let alone a virologist. It seems to me like you have done your due diligence by consulting several doctors and are therefore making the decision that you think is best. More power to you.

If this were not the case, you were able to be a carrier, and you chose not to get vaccinated or take precautionary measures such as wearing a mask in public, then I would personally view that as selfish behavior, but again, that is only my opinion and I do not think anyone should be forced to act in line with my opinions.

Then why not stop beating the dead horse and be quiet? Seriously....
You've made your views known. Good grief!!

 

[Newboomer]

You are correct, @ActionBob regarding the money for vented covid patients. BUT it starts with the money received for just a POSITIVE covid 19 test. Then, each "complication" and escalation in care results in even more money that not only the hospital receives, but depending on how a physician's contract reads, they get increases in pay as well for that patient. Put you on a vent, more money, and when you die, it is ruled a covid related death and then...more money. Everyone wins except for the patient and their loved ones.
If people would do even a miniscule amount of research, I do not believe that things would be this out of hand. I've had patients where they are vented and thrown in a room to die while being cut off from everyone who loves, cares for them or can advocate for them. When I had covid I did everything they tell you NOT to do regarding the medications they say you cannot or should not take when having covid. However, being an ICU nurse, I had seen enough to know that what is being done to patients is WRONG.
I think everyone is sick of hearing about covid and everyone is beating a dead horse going back and forth over taking or not taking the covid shot. To each their own. It is your choice to take or not take a shot. There is no need to try to force your will or opinions on others or speak about what you do not know. Just because Google says it, does NOT mean it is so!

Gina,
Very well stated. Can you give us some firsthand truthful information about this fiasco and it's treatment? I am sure it would be greatly appreciated if you could cut through the rubbish and tell it straight.

 

[ActionBob]

Bob couldn't you get tested for antibodies? Than if they start showing a drop get the shot. May be a long time before they drop. That's what my stepdaughter doing.

Len yes I can probably do that. Just not sure if the doctors will even order the test. I plan to ask but have not had great luck getting them to do things that seem common sense. However I just don't know what to think about getting a Covid-19 shot at this point. Tons of questions come up. Like will it even be effective against new variants or will it be actually detrimental after having had a severe case of Covid. So much seems to be experimental as we go. It is frustrating to know what is real factual information and what is political bs, and what is fear mongering bs, and what is just whacko tinfoil hat stuff.

This "vaccine" is a result of brand new technology that was apparently "on the shelf" just waiting for an opportunity to be utilized. When I inquired as to why it was not already being developed into a vaccine for other other viruses such as HIV or even the common cold, the response was that it just wold not have paid off. At least in the case of the common cold. And I'm assuming the risk vs. reward was just not there.

Sure wish we could just be offered honest scientific and medical information without it being screwed from every angle.

 

[lwaters]

My friend got an antibodies test at Dillions grocery store. He did that before taking the vaccine. He didn't have any so he toke the shot. He thought maybe he had covid earlier.

 

[WAB]

Len yes I can probably do that. Just not sure if the doctors will even order the test. I plan to ask but have not had great luck getting them to do things that seem common sense. However I just don't know what to think about getting a Covid-19 shot at this point. Tons of questions come up. Like will it even be effective against new variants or will it be actually detrimental after having had a severe case of Covid. So much seems to be experimental as we go. It is frustrating to know what is real factual information and what is political bs, and what is fear mongering bs, and what is just whacko tinfoil hat stuff.

This "vaccine" is a result of brand new technology that was apparently "on the shelf" just waiting for an opportunity to be utilized. When I inquired as to why it was not already being developed into a vaccine for other other viruses such as HIV or even the common cold, the response was that it just wold not have paid off. At least in the case of the common cold. And I'm assuming the risk vs. reward was just not there.

Sure wish we could just be offered honest scientific and medical information without it being screwed from every angle.

You are so right. The technology used in the development is not ten years old. That doesn’t make it bad but it sure makes me wonder when I hear what Biden was saying today. Surely he’s not lying to us?

 

[VonJager]

This probably belongs in the politics thread, but since you asked, yes, I do not believe I should have to pay for your healthcare. I believe in temporary welfare programs, but nothing permanent unless someone is profoundly disabled. I hope that answers your questions. If I sound sanctimonious, it is because a communicable disease like COVID affects more than just you. Thankfully, we have several vaccines available for those who want them so I no longer care what you do. I am just sick of being told that I now need to go back to wearing a mask or worrying about COVID hospitalization rates.

Your own fault that you fell for the snake oil, and are now being told to mask again has NOTHING to do with those choosing to avoid the snake oil.

 

[ActionBob]

My statement was apolitical. At this point, I do not care if you get the vaccine or not. I just do not think that we as a society have any responsibility to "protect" those who willingly choose not to do so. I do not see how that is perpetuating political divisions.

I pay for plenty of leaches on the system so stop preaching! These dambed liberals will destroy this great country if they get their way. I not only pay for my health insurance but also hundreds of employees. I would get the vaccine if I thought it would be the best thing to do. At this point I don't think I need it and I think it has potential to do me more harm than good.

I would love to see the government get back to the basics of law enforcement and public infrastructure maintenance and get hell out of our business' and personal lives and responsibilities!

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[JGRaider]

LMAO Hogpatrol.....that's classic!

Meanwhile:

A major outbreak with hundreds of cases many of them symptomatic and 74% of them were vaccinated.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/cdc-mask-decision-followed-stunning-204900053.html

 

[flatwater bill]

Just a note, (since the title of this thread deals with closed borders)......US borders may be closed to SOME, but definitely not to ALL. Texas Gov Abbott has directed officers to apprehend vehicles full of migrants (reasonable suspicion of) being released into the USA. Released by... The US Border Patrol. As the Biden Admin pursues sending these people to all corners of the Country, Texas is trying to stop it. But US Attn Gen Merrick Garland has been asked to sue Texas to prevent apprehension and allow these vans to come to a neighborhood near you. The chaos at the border is ignored by the so-called news media.....but FWIW, in the last 9 months.....54,000 people have been encountered at the border from Ecuador alone. One little country. The total from all countries must be staggering. So much for really wanting to contain and control Covid. Heaven help us. (data Wash. Examiner, Anna G. reporting July 2021)...................FWB

 

[WAB]

Crazy times. Trucking unvaccinated COVID positive illegals into our communities is unethical if not illegal.

 

[Gemsbok45]

So if you have had COVID why get vaccinated. If you have not make the choice. Let’s get back to hunting. Can’t get COVID from a Kudu!!

 

[wesheltonj]

So if you have had COVID why get vaccinated. If you have not make the choice. Let’s get back to hunting. Can’t get COVID from a Kudu!!

Why? Want to travel, you are going to have to get the vaccine whether you want it or not. I had to and still having headaches (wife and daughter fine - so far). My Daughter had Covid in August 2020, but had to get the vaccine in order to travel. Had to have a vaccine card in order to travel. It's either that or a Covid test every 3 days to get on a plane, ferry, bus, train etc. But of course the Card is worthless for return back to the USA - Test required.

 

[Brent in Az]

Nature has a funny way of taking care of those who do not take viruses seriously. Do what you want but do not expect me to feel bad when you end up dead and definitely do not expect me to foot the bill for putting you on a ventilator. However, I will feel bad for all of the people you inadvertently infect and take down with you.

Spoken like a true leftist.