Chapuis and Sabatti double rifles?

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have one of both 450NE Sabatti (Took a Zebra and Warthog last safari) Will us it on Cape Buff this year. Is very well regulated with factory ammo and I have worked up a solid load for 500gr A-Frames and CEB solids. My Chapuis is a 9.3x74 (Going to be Cape Eland as its primary target this year) also shoot well with factory and 300gr Aframes. Of the two the fit and finish on the Chapuis is better. I have shot Merkels in 500NE and my friends shoots good. I like my Sabatti better than the Merkel. But would really like a Verney Carron in 450NE, handled one at DSC this year and may have to put it on the want list in a few years (Will have to part with the other two for that though). Haven't Shot the Heym or one of butch's but they also both look like solid choices. If I was in you shoes would save more and get a Chapuis if you want to stay in the sub 10K range and look at the other three if you can swing 15+K.

Coming up to Phoenix anytime soon? I'd love to give that Sabatti a run. If it shoots as well as you say, I might be inclined to be first in line to buy if you go for the VC.

 

[AZDAVE]

Phil with my work schedule It will be most likely early summer after I get back from safari before I can make it up your way but we will hookup before July so you can shoot it. have a good day.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil with my work schedule It will be most likely early summer after I get back from safari before I can make it up your way but we will hookup before July so you can shoot it. have a good day.

Sounds good. Have my own trip starting last week of May into the first week of June.

 

[rookhawk]

I didn't think I'd have much to contribute to this arena (double rifles) but in this case, I do have some experience on the Sabattis.

If you look at reviews the Sabattis are either the best value in double rifles or unadulterated pieces of steaming...well you get the picture. They are actually both correct depending on the specimen and hence caveat emptor.

Sabbatti brought in a huge pile of guns through cabelas about 5 years ago. The best "deals" were the 45-70 and the 9.3x74r models. The premium models were ejector guns in dangerous game calibers. I believe the latter were less problematic but I'm uncertain.[

Here's the rub: That huge lot of guns came in and many of them did not regulate. They were shipped to FL (Miami I think?) and re-regulated or perhaps the Italians botched and re-regulated them and they were then returned to that importer...I get confused 2 years later.

The moral of the story was/is that a dufus regulated them in many instances. If they would not regulate they used a dremel to alter the crown so the test target would appear regulated. (the fact they do not show which shot is from which barrel is a different problem/story) The issue is that if you destroy the crown to regulate the rifle it will regulate at THAT EXACT YARDAGE but may violently cross thereafter. The correct way would be to use a lead wedge and relay and braze the ribs but that would have been too much hassle.

So if you go Sabatti, please be careful. Look at the crown because you can see if its butchered. I looked at 10 personally at Cabelas and returned 2 before I found one that was properly regulated and not dremeled.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

I didn't think I'd have much to contribute to this arena (double rifles) but in this case, I do have some experience on the Sabattis.

If you look at reviews the Sabattis are either the best value in double rifles or unadulterated pieces of steaming...well you get the picture. They are actually both correct depending on the specimen and hence caveat emptor.

Sabbatti brought in a huge pile of guns through cabelas about 5 years ago. The best "deals" were the 45-70 and the 9.3x74r models. The premium models were ejector guns in dangerous game calibers. I believe the latter were less problematic but I'm uncertain.[

Here's the rub: That huge lot of guns came in and many of them did not regulate. They were shipped to FL (Miami I think?) and re-regulated or perhaps the Italians botched and re-regulated them and they were then returned to that importer...I get confused 2 years later.

The moral of the story was/is that a dufus regulated them in many instances. If they would not regulate they used a dremel to alter the crown so the test target would appear regulated. (the fact they do not show which shot is from which barrel is a different problem/story) The issue is that if you destroy the crown to regulate the rifle it will regulate at THAT EXACT YARDAGE but may violently cross thereafter. The correct way would be to use a lead wedge and relay and braze the ribs but that would have been too much hassle.

So if you go Sabatti, please be careful. Look at the crown because you can see if its butchered. I looked at 10 personally at Cabelas and returned 2 before I found one that was properly regulated and not dremeled.

Hello

 

[edward]

i am a handgun hunter.bought the sabatti in 9.3x74r in 2012 just to have one rifle for those places that dont allow handguns.at 75 then, i dont shoot that good anymore with open sights so put a trijicon srs1 red dot on it.last june went to south africa for hippo.found out the airlines out of joberg no longer allowed handguns on

their flights so i had to use my sabatti.i had 100%sucess.loved it.enclosed is my final target at 50 yards.tightest group is with the regulated 286 gr hornady,second tightest group are with the handloaded 286 gr woodliegh solids[hydrostatics]brought home my hippo,a sable,and great cape bull.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

Hi rookhawk, I agree with you 100 percent . When Cabelas made there giant order , the quality of the Sabatti rifles dropped a ton .They were not up to supply and demand . I have found that the early rifles with the Weatherby type stock with the high rounded cheek piece and large drop in the front and rear of the stock are of good quality . The later ones are also good quality . Your assumption not to buy one with the dremel marks was right on . They were ruined at E.A.A. IN FLORDIA . CABELAS SENT THERE PROBLEM RIFLES BACK TO THE IMPORTERS IN FLORDIA for repair IN GOOD FAITH .Cabelas stood on there sales to customers that its right , or, bring it back and get your money back . I find it depressing that everyone blamed Cabelas for there problems . Sabatti has been in business for a very ,very long time and I have shot many of there shotguns in 20 years of gunsmithing and all were of better than average quality. I personally own two of there rifles. One is 45/70 and the other is in 9.3x74r and both are more than adequate for all the types of hunting they were made for .One is pre- Cabelas and the other post Cabelas . Double rifles almost never shoot one hole groups at 100 yds.. I have taken deer and hogs out to close to 100 yds, although much closer is the norm. Do you see shots on TV taken in Africa several hundred yards away with double guns . (NO )!!!!!!!!!! MOST HUNTERS ARE USE TO BOLT AND PUMP & LEVER GUNS STRETCHING DISTANCES TO MANY TIMES OVER WHAT SIDE BY SIDES ARE MADE FOR .I BELIEVE MOST OF THE PROBLEMS WITH DOUBLE GUNS ARE SHOOTERS EXPECTING ALOT MORE THAN THEY WERE MADE TO DO . I truly hope you enjoy shooting and hunting with your Sabatti rifle as much as I have with mine.I am sorry for sounding off ,but get tired of hereing the same crap over and over and so on. Bernie k.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

i am a handgun hunter.bought the sabatti in 9.3x74r in 2012 just to have one rifle for those places that dont allow handguns.at 75 then, i dont shoot that good anymore with open sights so put a trijicon srs1 red dot on it.last june went to south africa for hippo.found out the airlines out of joberg no longer allowed handguns onView attachment 38465 their flights so i had to use my sabatti.i had 100%sucess.loved it.enclosed is my final target at 50 yards.tightest group is with the regulated 286 gr hornady,second tightest group are with the handloaded 286 gr woodliegh solids[hydrostatics]brought home my hippo,a sable,and great cape bull.

HI EDWARD , COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR LOAD DATA IS . I HAVE ONLY BEEN USING FACTORY AMMO. BERNIE K.

 

[Buff-Buster]

I think Sabatti discussions will be going on forever. My two cents:

• Are Sabatti doubles worth their cost? Yes, if you do your reseach and get a well regulated/non-dremeled rifle.
• Are Sabatti doubles a piece of crap? Yes, if you buy a non-regulated or dremel regulated rifle.
• Should you avoid all Sabatti doubles? No, the well regulated rifles are a hell of a value for the money.
• Are Sabatti doubles as good as a Kriegoff, Chapius, VC, Searcy etc? Are you kidding me? Again, they are a good value for the cost but can you compare a Chevy Impala to a Corvette?
• Are Sabatti double rifles reliable? ( Kind of an important factor in a DB rifle!) Of all the reports that I have read, no one has every mentioned a problem with reliability. You "pull the trigger - they go "bang"
• Can you re-regulate a "dremel regulated" Sabatti? I believe so, but you might as well upgrade to a used Merkel/Blaser rather than spend the money?
• Will a Sabatti double rust up abnormally when it gets wet? All I can say is I live in the swamp called the Texas Gulf coast.

I try to remain open minded and un-biased when it comes to most things. I realize that there are folks out there that dream of hunting Africa some day with a open sighted double in their sweaty palms. Whether it is after elephant, buffalo, or whatever, the only way they may get to fulfill that dream is to purchase a low cost Sabatti instead of a higher quality rifle that cost two, three, maybe four times what the Sabatti costs. Tack that on to the cost of a quality elephant/buf hunt and they may not ever be able to fulfill that dream. Hell, I own a Sabatti 470NE. I also own quite a few, Rugers, Browning, Remingtons, etc... I do not own any high dollar custom made rifles and I assure you that almost all of my "work horse" rifles are sub MOA with proper hand-loads. Point is, if a particular Sabatti is a POS due to improper regulating so be it. I don't think it is fair to condemn them all.

 

[edward]

bernie,the hornady ammo is factory,d.g.s. what the double was regulated with.i had a friend of mine hand load the woodliegh solids and will find out from him what the load is.i had my scope sighted encore in 9.3x74r zeroed in perfectly with the woodlieghs,that was my choice for my last hunt but had to use my sabatti instead as the airlines from joberg to final destination had stopped transporting handguns.i wanted to have solids on my hunt so decided to see how the woodlieghs would perform out of the double.not as tight a group as the hornadays but good enough for dangerous game at farther than 50 yards as you can see.same point of aim for both.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

bernie,the hornady ammo is factory,d.g.s. what the double was regulated with.i had a friend of mine hand load the woodliegh solids and will find out from him what the load is.i had my scope sighted encore in 9.3x74r zeroed in perfectly with the woodlieghs,that was my choice for my last hunt but had to use my sabatti instead as the airlines from joberg to final destination had stopped transporting handguns.i wanted to have solids on my hunt so decided to see how the woodlieghs would perform out of the double.not as tight a group as the hornadays but good enough for dangerous game at farther than 50 yards as you can see.same point of aim for both.View attachment 38622 View attachment 38623 View attachment 38624

TANK YOU SIR ! YOUR PICTURES ARE WHAT OUR DREAMS ARE MADE OF . MANY OF US HOG AND DEER HUNTERS MAY NEVER GET TO GO TO ALL THE EXOTIC PLACES WE DREAM OF , BUT ,THANKS TO YOUR SHARING THOSE WONDERFUL PICTURES I FEEL LIKE I HAVE JUST BEEN THERE !

 

[bebo]

My neighbours are VC (10 miles) and Chapuis (30 miles).
I know their "workshop" , you can trust them , they do a great job.
I had had a Chapuis , a marvel ! but I prefer a bolt action... to hunt.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

My neighbours are VC (10 miles) and Chapuis (30 miles).
I know their "workshop" , you can trust them , they do a great job.
I had had a Chapuis , a marvel ! but I prefer a bolt action... to hunt.

Everyone has there favorites , some like to try something more challenging .maybe a single shot or muzzle loader . I just decided to try a double . what ever you use ,enjoy the time out doors and the fun of taking game with your firearm of choice

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Serious helmet head there @edward on that buff!

 

[CAustin]

Edward great looking pictures!

 

[edward]

thanks,all!!!

 

[hunteratheart]

i am a handgun hunter.found out the airlines out of joberg no longer allowed handguns on their flights so i had to use my sabatti.

Edward, what are you referring to here? I'm travelling SAA in May and taking my S&W 500 with me. As long as the necessary permits are waiting upon arrival, there is no issue with handguns being taken. I actually worked with Henry out of riflepermits.com for my pre-approval paperwork.

As far as the Sabatti's - it's been hit/miss for me. My first one was a 450/400 which I have used in Zim. Great little rifle that shoots well. My next attempt was at a 500NE and that Sabatti would not hit the broadside of a barn with both barrels. Ended going back and I paid for a mint Merkel in 500NE.

 

[edward]

saa will take handguns,but south african express wont.i flew south african into joberg but had to fly south african express out of joberg to my final destination.in 2005 and 2007 they still carried handguns,what made them change i dont know.thats why i had to use my sabatti instead of my scope sighted encore in 9.3x74r.it worked out ok as this was probably my last safari and i did want to use my double on something dangerous anyway.best of luck to you on your hunt.

 

[edward]

bernie,the woodliegh load was 68 gr of h114,cci 200 primers,286 gr woodliegh hydro solids.the woodlieghs are 4.00 a piece,but worth every penney.

 

[bernard kalchthaler]

bernie,the woodliegh load was 68 gr of h114,cci 200 primers,286 gr woodliegh hydro solids.the woodlieghs are 4.00 a piece,but worth every penney.

Thank you SIR ,
I will give it a try . loved the trophy pic.s .