CBL Debate Over, CBL Loses

[One Day...]

If CBL is the canary in the mine I think we already lost.

You and I may very well agree here

I do not think that the case though.

I hope

It is really disheartening to me though to see how much support this practice has on AH.

Support? Or tolerance for a legal activity, that can be, and has been, practiced by some with as much integrity, as it has been practiced by others without any integrity?

 

[MarkB]

This is a slippery topic, one that fuels heated emotions from both sides. As some pro hunters against and the anti's unite on this. Did the original SA rules not state that it is their intention to stop, make illegal all captive bred species released to be hunted? WHEN implemented there will be much less hunting done in SA, will not effect the very rich or those that NEVER EVER ANYWHERE hunt any animal bred and released behind any fence.

I have openly stated before, I fully enjoyed my CBL hunt, was a little scripted, not wild and I fully understood what I was doing, but was only way I will hunt a lion. Glad I did and he is now in Canada.

No matter what side of this argument you are on. There is one thing for sure, this will be one more nail in hunting and hunters doom. They will only stop when we cannot hunt anything, anywhere and anyhow.

MB

 

[Woodcarver]

It’s a farming practice disguised as a hunting practice to me. Banning it isn’t banning any hunting. Maybe the shoots are conducted more appropriately today, but it only takes one lie to be a liar. The CBL industry did it to themselves. They weren’t innocent marketing ploys. Telling someone a farm raised and released lion is a problem lion from Botswana is simply an outright lie. It took the anti-hunting documentary Blood Lions before the discussion around what it is became more honest because it couldn’t be avoided so easily at that point. The lions are raised as livestock in small areas then released for hunting 7 days prior to shooting simple as that. The discussion around the lion bone trade is still mostly avoided. The discussion around the cub petting industry is avoided completely. What also stands out to me about this discussion is no hunter supporting CBL shooting ever wants to see a CBL farm to see how they are raised. They only want to see and talk about the tracking experience once the lion is released.
There is a large price difference between a wild lion hunt and a CBL shoot however it should be greater. The high value hunts like lion give areas economic value that other animals just don’t have. Without high dollar hunts many of the other hunts in wild areas average persons can afford like buffalo and plains game would slowly disappear because the area wouldn’t generate enough revenue to protect it. Shooting 50 stocked lions on a CBL ranch protects maybe 10,000 acres. Hunting two lions on a concession protects 100,000 acres. Having to complete with $3000 5 day lioness CBL shoots and $8000 male lion CBL shoots ultimately reduces at least some demand for the much more expensive wild hunts that might require a lifetime of saving.
An open discussion on the lion bone trade helping protect wild lions would be nice. It actually does add some conservation value. However, again, as a marketing ploy, this topic was avoided. It’s still unclear what happens with the CBL lion after the hunter shoots it. Telling a hunter his lion bones are going to China doesn’t help sell CBL shoots. The lion farmers don’t need hunters coming to harvest their lions for them to sell the bones to China though.
I’ll be glad when CBL shooting is banned. This argument will be done. Everyone already picked their side.

I appreciate your position. And agree that a number of the CBL operators brought this upon themselves. A (rhetorical) question for me is, has the issue become a huge debate because we're talking about lions, not coyotes? There does seem to be a disparity, even among the anti's, between animals that have movies made about them and those that are "less desirable".
Hunting a lion in Africa is at the top of my "want to hunt" list. A proper tracking hunt. Yes, I would prefer to do it as I read about it being done, in a vast, unfenced, wilderness. My reality is, unless I win the lotto, that is highly unlikely. A CBL hunt, done under my definition of a large enough property, I have been considering. So, if the conditions meet my definitions, I do support it; not that it will matter soon.
One of the problems I see with this decision by SA, and others like it, is too often we see unintended consequences. As the information @BRICKBURN posted indicates, this will impact not just the CBL trade in hunting, but also the bone and meat market. It references rhinos as well, "To phase out intensive management and captive breeding of rhinoceros for commercial purposes, and enhance wild populations;". Does this mean those farms will no longer be able to sell a tag for that old bull that must be culled? How will that farmer replace that much needed revenue? Are those CBR hunts?
Oddly enough, when I made that first post, the intent was not to argue for or against CBL hunting per se, but to emphasize that we, as hunters, need to find a way to stay on the same side of all of these attacks, even when you or I or someone else don't see eye to eye on a particular aspect of hunting. You are correct, when this takes effect and CBL hunts are banned, this argument will be done. We'll have to go back to arguing about whether the 45-70 is a DG cartridge or if a 375 is the only rifle needed in Africa! (And it's only the 375 H&H, not that Ruger wannabe)

 

[375Fox]

This is a slippery topic, one that fuels heated emotions from both sides. As some pro hunters against and the anti's unite on this. Did the original SA rules not state that it is their intention to stop, make illegal all captive bred species released to be hunted? WHEN implemented there will be much less hunting done in SA, will not effect the very rich or those that NEVER EVER ANYWHERE hunt any animal bred and released behind any fence.

I have openly stated before, I fully enjoyed my CBL hunt, was a little scripted, not wild and I fully understood what I was doing, but was only way I will hunt a lion. Glad I did and he is now in Canada.

No matter what side of this argument you are on. There is one thing for sure, this will be one more nail in hunting and hunters doom. They will only stop when we cannot hunt anything, anywhere and anyhow.

MB

The president is a game farmer. South Africa isn’t going to stop game breeding because it’s a large part of their economy. CBL is viewed as damaging to South Africa’s image. Game farming buffalo and sable is not. I don’t know what the original proposal stated, but making a minimum release time something like 6 month would have no effect on hunting buffalo and antelope species. A 6 month requirement on CBL lions would eliminate most shooting opportunities for them because they are a financial liability on the property.

 

[375Fox]

I appreciate your position. And agree that a number of the CBL operators brought this upon themselves. A (rhetorical) question for me is, has the issue become a huge debate because we're talking about lions, not coyotes? There does seem to be a disparity, even among the anti's, between animals that have movies made about them and those that are "less desirable".
Hunting a lion in Africa is at the top of my "want to hunt" list. A proper tracking hunt. Yes, I would prefer to do it as I read about it being done, in a vast, unfenced, wilderness. My reality is, unless I win the lotto, that is highly unlikely. A CBL hunt, done under my definition of a large enough property, I have been considering. So, if the conditions meet my definitions, I do support it; not that it will matter soon.
One of the problems I see with this decision by SA, and others like it, is too often we see unintended consequences. As the information @BRICKBURN posted indicates, this will impact not just the CBL trade in hunting, but also the bone and meat market. It references rhinos as well, "To phase out intensive management and captive breeding of rhinoceros for commercial purposes, and enhance wild populations;". Does this mean those farms will no longer be able to sell a tag for that old bull that must be culled? How will that farmer replace that much needed revenue? Are those CBR hunts?
Oddly enough, when I made that first post, the intent was not to argue for or against CBL hunting per se, but to emphasize that we, as hunters, need to find a way to stay on the same side of all of these attacks, even when you or I or someone else don't see eye to eye on a particular aspect of hunting. You are correct, when this takes effect and CBL hunts are banned, this argument will be done. We'll have to go back to arguing about whether the 45-70 is a DG cartridge or if a 375 is the only rifle needed in Africa! (And it's only the 375 H&H, not that Ruger wannabe)

There will most certainly be unintended consequences. However, I suppose that’s my opposition to the if it’s legal I support it argument. If no ethics and internal policing are applied it gets out of hand quickly. Then an outside party steps in like in this case.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Minister Barbara Creecy on release of report of Ministerial Task Team on Voluntary Exit Options and Pathways from Captive Lion Industry​

03 Apr 2024

I have today, released the report of the Ministerial Task Team on Voluntary Exit Options and Pathways from the Captive Lion Industry. Cabinet has approved the release of the report and its recommendations for implementation.
The Ministerial Task Team (MTT) was appointed in December 2022, following a recommendation by the High Level Panel on matters relating to the management, breeding, hunting, trade and handling of elephant, lion, leopard and rhinoceros. The panel recommended the closure of the captive breeding sector, including the keeping of lions in captivity, or the use of captive lions or their derivatives commercially.
The task team was established to identify and recommend win-win voluntary exit options and pathways from captive lion industry. The team was chaired by Mr Kamalasen Chetty. The other members of the team were Mr Obied Katumba, Dr Louise de Waal, Ms Carla van der Vyfer, Dr Christine Steyrer, Adv Justice Mnisi and Dr Kelly Marnewick.
The key focus areas of the task team were:

• To undertake a process of engagement with key stakeholders in the captive lion industry, relevant issuing authorities and including any vulnerable workers.
• Plan and oversee an audit of existing captive and captive-bred facilities to confirm the number of lions, their age and sex, stockpiles of lion parts and derivatives, the practices and uses within that facility, number, level of employment and skills of workers and potential other land use options within the biodiversity economy.
• To develop and oversee the initial implementation of a voluntary exit strategy and pathways from the captive lion industry for stakeholders who wish to pursue this option. This exit strategy should consider all possible options, and prevailing issued within the captive lion industry.
• To identify, mobilise and endorse potential funding mechanisms, sources and procedures to support the voluntary exit strategy and pathways.
• To provide advice to the Minister or Department on any other matters related to the captive lion industry on request by either.

South Africa is a country, with diverse cultures, remarkable geological wealth, and exceptional biodiversity, much of which is unique, and with high levels of endemism. With this rich endowment comes the responsibility and challenge of ensuring our species and ecosystems are conserved and used sustainably for the benefit of all South Africans and future generations.
Section 24 of the Constitution requires reasonable legislative and other measures be put in place to ensure that the environment is protected, for the benefit of present and future generations, including through promoting conservation and securing ecologically sustainable development and use of natural resources.
This report should be understood in the broader policy context of the White Paper on Conservation and Sustainable use and the Policy Position on the conservation and sustainable use of elephant, lion, leopard and rhinoceros that was approved last week by Cabinet for implementation.
In summary, the Key Recommendations of the Task Team were that Government approve:
a) Phase 1: Engage voluntary exit candidates to finalise the pathways and exit terms.
b) Phase 2: Acquisition and incineration of lion bone stockpiles contingent upon sterilisation of lions and compliance with the voluntary exit principles.
c) Issue a short-term directive to ensure consistent application of animal well-being is assured through issuing of permits and conducting oversights.
d) Prohibit captive lion breeding in the medium term to safeguard benefits of voluntary exit.
I am pleased to announce that Cabinet has endorsed the recommendations of the Task Team.
I wish to thank the Ministerial Task Team, for the sterling work that it has done in producing a comprehensive and credible report with a set of findings and recommendations which address the difficult issues in the captive lion industry as contained in the Terms of Reference.
I also wish to thank the captive lion industry and the other key stakeholders who have assisted the Task Team in its work to identify voluntary exit options and pathways from captive lion industry.
I thank you.
To access the report, click on the link below:
https://www.dffe.gov.za/sites/default/files/reports/ministerialtaskteam…
Editors note:
Last week, cabinet approved the revised Policy Position on the conservation and sustainable use of elephant, lion, leopard and rhinoceros for implementation.
The strategic impact of this policy position is that it will provide policy certainty for specific elements of the conservation and sustainable use of these five species, and, furthermore, provide a basis to review legislation where applicable and appropriate.
Consistent with the policy context of the White Paper, this Policy Position focuses primarily on correcting unsustainable practices, promoting conservation, sustainable use, and the well-being of the five species, and providing policy direction for international commercial trade in the five species.
The Policy Position, therefore, proposes three conservation and sustainable use policy objectives to enhance species management:
• To end the captive keeping of lions for commercial purposes and close captive lion facilities, put a halt to the intensive breeding of lion in controlled environments, and end the commercial exploitation of captive and captive-bred lions;
• To phase out intensive management and captive breeding of rhinoceros for commercial purposes, and enhance wild populations; and
• To ensure that the use of leopard is sustainable, incentivises and enhances their conservation in the wild.
The Policy Position also proposes three international commercial trade-related policy objectives:
• To promote live export of the five species only to range states or any other appropriate and acceptable destinations with suitable habitats on the African continent;
• South Africa will work with range states and potential destination countries to support a proposal for international commercial trade in rhinoceros horn from protected wild rhinoceros, for conservation purposes, when conditions become favourable; and
• Consider international commercial elephant ivory trade only when conditions become favourable.
Each objective in this Policy Position has associated activities for implementation. By adopting practices that are responsible, legal, sustainable, and promote animal well-being, the implementation of the six Policy Objectives will transform practices within the wildlife industry that are not conducive to animal well-being and promote conservation and sustainable use of biodiversity in general, and these species in particular.
This will enhance South Africa’s position as a megadiverse country and leader in the conservation and sustainable use of these iconic species.

For media queries contact Peter Mbelengwa on 082 611 8197

There is just so much wrong with this its just frustratingly incomprehensible. A whole new realm of mind boggling ignorant stupidity. UUHHHHGGG.

From my perspective this is a living document that is currently and most easily addressing Lion-CBL. How long before the words Lion and CBL are replaced by Rhinoceros and the prohibition of rhino darting. As in the below quoted text from this plan.

To phase out intensive management and captive breeding of rhinoceros for commercial purposes, and enhance wild populations; and

Then what will follow next elephant? or leopard? It's in there.

________________________________________

From the consensus of all the comments by the members of this forum; and I am asking for clarification:

Am I understanding correctly that CBL lions are being bred Primarily for commercial use, in the same manner as per se any other common livestock such as cattle, sheep, goats, etc. with the Secondary added benefit of being a profitable DG hunting animal?

I see No "...win-win..." here, just a lose-lose. The legality of legitimate CBL operations to commercially sell lions and such lion parts makes it a less profitable higher risk endeavor for poachers, unlike the current more profitable to risk in the illegal ivory, elephant and rhinoceros parts trade.

When in 2 years this takes effect if not sooner, the 3500 wild, free roaming lions will be significantly reduced to maybe a few 100, if not totally eradicated, simply because the risk to reward factor has more than significantly monetarily been improved.

_______________________________________

To phase out intensive management and captive breeding of rhinoceros for commercial purposes, and enhance wild populations; and

South Africa will work with range states and potential destination countries to support a proposal for international commercial trade in rhinoceros horn from protected wild rhinoceros, for conservation purposes, when conditions become favourable, and

WTH! is this......more asinine incomprehensible ignorance.

Again, there are rhino farms and just as the captive breed lion farms; Why In The Hell phase out captive breed rhinoceros that can meet the supply and demand commercial purposes and substitute it for wild free roaming rhinoceros that bring in the most hunter's dollars.

And yet they want to do the same for elephant and leopard.

______________________________________

I'll say it now, PG breeding farms will follow. Because all it takes is a simple substituting of one animal species for another.

I won't say Never, I'll just say it's a fallacy to conceive there will ever be a sustainable wild free roaming population of any, or all of these, species to sustain any concept of being a commercial commodity.

 

[Woodcarver]

There is just so much wrong with this its just frustratingly incomprehensible. A whole new realm of mind boggling ignorant stupidity. UUHHHHGGG.

From my perspective this is a living document that is currently and most easily addressing Lion-CBL. How long before the words Lion and CBL are replaced by Rhinoceros and the prohibition of rhino darting. As in the below quoted text from this plan.



Then what will follow next elephant? or leopard? It's in there.

________________________________________

From the consensus of all the comments by the members of this forum; and I am asking for clarification:

Am I understanding correctly that CBL lions are being bred Primarily for commercial use, in the same manner as per se any other common livestock such as cattle, sheep, goats, etc. with the Secondary added benefit of being a profitable DG hunting animal?

I see No "...win-win..." here, just a lose-lose. The legality of legitimate CBL operations to commercially sell lions and such lion parts makes it a less profitable higher risk endeavor for poachers, unlike the current more profitable to risk in the illegal ivory, elephant and rhinoceros parts trade.

When in 2 years this takes effect if not sooner, the 3500 wild, free roaming lions will be significantly reduced to maybe a few 100, if not totally eradicated, simply because the risk to reward factor has more than significantly monetarily been improved.

_______________________________________





WTH! is this......more asinine incomprehensible ignorance.

Again, there are rhino farms and just as the captive breed lion farms; Why In The Hell phase out captive breed rhinoceros that can meet the supply and demand commercial purposes and substitute it for wild free roaming rhinoceros that bring in the most hunter's dollars.

And yet they want to do the same for elephant and leopard.

______________________________________

I'll say it now, PG breeding farms will follow. Because all it takes is a simple substituting of one animal species for another.

I won't say Never, I'll just say it's a fallacy to conceive there will ever be a sustainable wild free roaming population of any, or all of these, species to sustain any concept of being a commercial commodity.

Bingo!

This was pushed by those that want to end all hunting, and written by those that don't have a clue.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Another tale of how a few rotten apples spoil the entire barrel...

So...................

Aside from Vaal Rhebok, Klipspringer, and a few Eastern Cape Kudu that live wild and reproduce naturally on the high ridges and plateaus of the Karoo; a few Bushbuck that survive on the edge of "green gold" alfalfa fields in a few riparian areas; a few ubiquitous Springbok and Impala straggling amongst sheep farms; and a few other small species here or there, VIRTUALLY EVERY ANIMAL HUNTED / SHOT in South Africa is captive bred in either straightforward breeding farms or game/shooting farms.

I propose that our most passionate anti CBL (Captive Bred Lion) advocates immediately start the campaign against CBB (Captive Bred Buffalo), CBS (Captive Bred Sable), CBR (Captive Bred Roan), CBW (Captive Bred Wildebeest), CBH (Captive Bred Hartebeest), CBG (Captive Bred Gemsbok), CBE (Captive Bred Eland), CBL (Captive Bred Lechwe), CBK (Captive Bred Kudu), heck! CBA (Captive Bred Anything).

And since we are at it, let us also all advocate for the EWC (expropriation without compensation) of all these breeding farms and game farms in RSA. Lord knows, anyone knows how useless hunting is to the local folks' income, and how all this land can be so better used for community farming.

What? Wait? CBL (Captive Bred Lion) is not the same thing as CBA (Captive Bred Anything)? Because Lions are different? Seriously? Ah, it is emotional! Well, if it is emotional, I guess that it changes everything... Right?

And ranch hunting is the backbone of RSA tourism industry, and provides the only possible living to entire rural populations? Well too bad, they better move to Soweto, because the first domino just fell...

Boy! Another Gin & Tonic for the Bwana! Pese, pese! (hurry, hurry!) because quick there will not be any Bwana left...

Come to think of it, since a few drug dealers in the USA behave with guns as badly as a few lion breeders in RSA, since the solution appears to be to outlaw lion breeding, maybe we should think about outlawing guns in America? Anyone on board?





Alright, alright, unleash the furry of indignation and maybe ask BRICKBURN to ban me from the site. After all, many / most will see me as sacrilegious for bringing rational thinking to an emotional situation...

You may have said it better, but I pretty much pointed out the same thing. Granted there is a considerable difference in raising/ breeding lions and leopards compared to other species. But yeah, unless the area is of sufficient size and has the habitat to sustain a free roaming, not penned raised, herd of any given species its all game farming.

I live in the USA. and still get periodic ads listing various African species with prices for each of the various species, much like I get cattle and horses, and every now again hogs, goats and sheep, for sale ads. In comparison a stockyard is a stockade just on 2 different continents with a vast difference in livestock.

 

[Mac Baren]

I’m not sure if it’s entirely accurate to describe CBL hunting as a method of harvesting the animals for commercial sale of parts to China. Isn’t it the case that the parts (including the trophy) were exportable back to the U.S. prior to the Obama administration banning them? So not really CBLs fault, but anti-hunting politicians putting artificial constraints on it.

 

[Houston Bill]

I’m not sad that canned lion hunting is banned. I’ve already said it before that lion hunting is my No. 1 favorite African dangerous game hunt of all time. Wild lion, that is. I’ve been on one canned lion hunt in my life. It was nowhere like “Shooting fish in a barrel“ as some critics complain. But it just wasn’t for me. And I immediately resolved to never participate in another canned lion hunt, ever again (although I can certainly understand the appeal amongst certain aspiring hunters on a budget).

But you all do realize that canned lion hunting is just the latest target of the anti hunting lobby, right ?

Once this is over, they’ll not waste any time in going after wild lion hunting. And then, leopard. Then, elephant. Then, hippopotamus. Then, Cape buffalo. Then, plains game.

Give them an inch and they will want a mile. The same pressure groups who got tiger hunting banned in my part of the world, immediately went after deer hunting as soon tiger hunting was banned. Don’t believe me ? Read about India’s “Project Tiger” and then cross reference your findings with the so-called Indian “Wildlife Protection Act-1972” (which banned all hunting).

Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that banning canned lion hunts will get these crazed animal rights cultists off our backs. It’s only going to embolden them.

I agree, the anti's will be emboldened and they will then come for wild lion, leopard, elephant and hippo next. And if they get this momentum they will kill all hunting in Africa in 20 years. I hope I am wrong but in the current global climate I don't see the governments of the African countries where hunting is done today having the spine to push back against the aniti's and let science and data form the basis for the decisions made regarding the wildlife in Africa.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I agree, the anti's will be emboldened and they will then come for wild lion, leopard, elephant and hippo next. And if they get this momentum they will kill all hunting in Africa in 20 years. I hope I am wrong but in the current global climate I don't see the governments of the African countries where hunting is done today having the spine to push back against the aniti's and let science and data form the basis for the decisions made regarding the wildlife in Africa.

Botswana and Namibia are two examples who are fighting this insanity very commendably. But the other African countries seem to be pretty much done for. Unless of course, a miracle happens.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

These threads are always so fascinating.

There is so much coping, intellectual dishonesty, delusion and deliberate obfuscation of the truth with the pro-CBL stance. It really is amazing. It really must take some serious mental gymnastics to work around the glaringly obvious, serious and numerous ethical issues with the CBL industry.

It was said once that there is a silent majority on AH that is anti CBL. I hope that’s true. Soon it won’t matter whether there is or not (thankfully). To semi quote another post it is incredibly disheartening to see this support for the practice.

What is also amazing is the outright support and/or tolerance for it in spite of the fact that any conservation group that matters (that doesn’t have a conflict of interest pertaining to CBL) has voiced opposition to CBL. Seems like the prevailing sentiment among CBL supporters pertaining to conservation groups stances on this subject is that the respective groups have caved to the antis on this issue (false). Massive cope..

I wonder how many defenders CBL would have if the “hunts” cost the same as a wild or wild managed lion hunt? Wild managed being a category that I believe any species falls under in a proper, ethical and conservation based fenced hunting operation. I wonder how many people who indulge themselves in CBL “hunting” are also completely fine with hunting put and take PG because that’s exactly what CBL “hunting” is: put and take.

This horse has obviously beaten to death before and is now being beaten as dirt is being shoveled over it and it will be a great day when said horse is pushing up daisies.

 

[PARA45]

This is an interesting article:

MSN

"Germany is considering joining neighboring Belgium, which voted in late January to ban imports from a range of threatened animals, including elephants.

“You should live with the animals the way you try to tell us to,” the Botswanan president said, referring to the German officials who are spearheading the push.

Earlier this month, Britain’s parliament also approved a ban on the import of hunting trophies, prompting Botswana officials to threaten to flood London's Hyde Park with 10,000 elephants. "

 

[steve white]

"Canned hunt," "shooting fish in a barrel", and CBL seem to used interchangeably, but should they? We are not talking about animals which, raised by man, are so tame your children could walk up and pet them. In his book, "Deadly Encounters" Craig Boddington describes hunts in the northwest section of SA that were Kalahari tracking, often charge provoking hunts with animals that BECAUSE OF familiarity with man had less natural fear of man, and would certainly charge if pushed. And yet they were CBL! They also had a so many month minimum acclimation time before hunting was allowed.
The entire habitat must play into any predator hunt, like it or not. If a "wild" area is heavily poached, then it HAS NO SUSTAINABLE PREY BASE and even leopards become scarce, being literally starved out. A fenced property HAS a controlled prey population, though the owners might not wish for lions to feed on their pricy put and take plains game. (And there's the rub--short release/acclimation times to limit lion predation of trophy stock?) And allow me to ask--why are the same folks who hunt put and take Sable in a non native environment not criticized for canned hunting? (Would we want for the antis to criticise, even push to ban put and take PG hunting?)
Some day, protected, fenced game may literally be all there is, and may just be the hedge against extinction, or at least inbreeding dangers that are occurring in natural, wild areas. I think it is going to have to include "both, and" strategies to salvage much hunting someday in the population explosion which is Africa.
I'll take wild if I can get it--but I'll take Africa ANY WAY I CAN GET IT, especially if it's all I can afford.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

It’s over and done and we are still arguing about it, good grief.

 

[Flewis]

Yes it is over but I fear far from done.

 

[375Fox]

I’m not sure if it’s entirely accurate to describe CBL hunting as a method of harvesting the animals for commercial sale of parts to China. Isn’t it the case that the parts (including the trophy) were exportable back to the U.S. prior to the Obama administration banning them? So not really CBLs fault, but anti-hunting politicians putting artificial constraints on it.

In a hunt report last year or the year before, a Canadian didn’t know he would have to pay extra on top his hunt to buy the skull to bring home. However, no hunter would have ever taken the other bones even when they could import.

 

[375Fox]

"Canned hunt," "shooting fish in a barrel", and CBL seem to used interchangeably, but should they? We are not talking about animals which, raised by man, are so tame your children could walk up and pet them. In his book, "Deadly Encounters" Craig Boddington describes hunts in the northwest section of SA that were Kalahari tracking, often charge provoking hunts with animals that BECAUSE OF familiarity with man had less natural fear of man, and would certainly charge if pushed. And yet they were CBL! They also had a so many month minimum acclimation time before hunting was allowed.
The entire habitat must play into any predator hunt, like it or not. If a "wild" area is heavily poached, then it HAS NO SUSTAINABLE PREY BASE and even leopards become scarce, being literally starved out. A fenced property HAS a controlled prey population, though the owners might not wish for lions to feed on their pricy put and take plains game. (And there's the rub--short release/acclimation times to limit lion predation of trophy stock?) And allow me to ask--why are the same folks who hunt put and take Sable in a non native environment not criticized for canned hunting? (Would we want for the antis to criticise, even push to ban put and take PG hunting?)
Some day, protected, fenced game may literally be all there is, and may just be the hedge against extinction, or at least inbreeding dangers that are occurring in natural, wild areas. I think it is going to have to include "both, and" strategies to salvage much hunting someday in the population explosion which is Africa.
I'll take wild if I can get it--but I'll take Africa ANY WAY I CAN GET IT, especially if it's all I can afford.

The norms and standards for CBL written by SAPA publicly available. The release time isn’t months it’s 7 days. Possibly 30 days if you choose to believe certain outfitters. There is not a many month release period before harvest as you are trying to state. If there is it would be the exception.

 

[Quest#1]

unfortunately with everyone picking sides as they feel and not sticking together and supporting all legal means of hunting.
All hunting will be banned. Do it while you can!

 

[IvW]

Something missing from your analysis is the history of CBL. There is no tradition associated with it and it’s a farming invention in the last 30 years. It’s easier to blame the anti-hunters than the hunters and farmers that pushed this activity forward. These hunts were originally sold as problem lions from Botswana trying to avoid discussing where they came from. Then the lie was told they were taking pressure off wild lion populations by reducing hunting demand, however wild lions are managed on very small and that money is needed to fund conservation efforts on huge areas. It simply devalued wild lions by offering a cheap and 100% successful quick hunt in South Africa for those only interested in the trophy. No major hunting organization supports this activity aside from PHASA who’s members make money from the practice. The hunters supporting this do more damage dividing hunters than the anti’s ever could have, but it’s easier to blame the anti-hunters.

Wrong PHASA does not support CBL....

SAPA was created by a handfull if members who support CBL...

PHASA to defend captive-bred lion resolution - Africa Geographic

The Professional Hunters Association of South Africa (PHASA) is to defend its position on captive-bred lion hunting and breeding.

africageographic.com