Cartridges you just hate

[akrifleman]

The differences I have experienced on whitetails says that the 30’s perform way better as far as putting them down. Your mileage may vary but I have never seen a 270 drop anything larger than a squirrel without a spine hit.

Not super scientific but it’s 100’s of deer.

Well, science is observation of data points, so 100s isn't insignificant statistical sample size.

Usually the guy with the 270 has 130s and the 06 guy is running 180s. When they are both running 150s... but, even then.

I'd wager with that many deer, you can shoot. Forensics is pretty clear that bullet placement and construction trumps everything else. My hunch is you have confidence and you shoot the 06 well. Of the 270 shooters I know (personally, not trying to offend all the readers here), only one shoots well. Most the other solid hunter/shooters I know moved on to something else. Which is why I also believe the guys here who have great luck with the Swede, 7x57, 7mm-08, 308, et al

But, I claim 338s and up are a new weight class, so I'm equally convinced it matters there. I'll go and ponder my own hypocrisy. Like you said... YMMV.

 

[BGGMKLR]

7mm Weatherly and 300 Rem Ultramag.
Spike

 

[Milan]

Well, science is observation of data points, so 100s isn't insignificant statistical sample size.

Usually the guy with the 270 has 130s and the 06 guy is running 180s. When they are both running 150s... but, even then.

I'd wager with that many deer, you can shoot. Forensics is pretty clear that bullet placement and construction trumps everything else. My hunch is you have confidence and you shoot the 06 well. Of the 270 shooters I know (personally, not trying to offend all the readers here), only one shoots well. Most the other solid hunter/shooters I know moved on to something else. Which is why I also believe the guys here who have great luck with the Swede, 7x57, 7mm-08, 308, et al

But, I claim 338s and up are a new weight class, so I'm equally convinced it matters there. I'll go and ponder my own hypocrisy. Like you said... YMMV.

I do not have hundred's of deer dead but on the few I shot, I observed the following:

1. 7x57 hits much harder than the cartridge would suggest, even with only 139/140gr bullets
2. 30-06 hits harder yet with 150/165 grainers and makes bigger and deeper wounds/holes
3. 300 WM hits harder still with 180 grainers and just as hard with same at long distances
4. 338 hits harder than anything else I have shot (I never killed anything with .375 H&H, .416 Rigby or .458 Lott)
5. 9.3x62 hits even harder on denser animals but on deer does not seem to hit hard as it mostly goes through. But, it kills just as well as the .338 or better when it hits something stiffer like bones.

In the end, dead is dead and is deader better? Just more meat damage sometimes depending on the shot. But I agree on the .338 and up being another class. Coincidentally 1 of the whitetails I shot with the .338 also did not appear to be hit, just like with the 9.3x62. I was using Winchester's Fail Safe ammo at the time (all copper bullets) and it just zipped through the heart. Deer did not react, did not make a step and then keeled over dead after few seconds.

 

[MS 9x56]

I do not have hundred's of deer dead but on the few I shot, I observed the following:

1. 7x57 hits much harder than the cartridge would suggest, even with only 139/140gr bullets
2. 30-06 hits harder yet with 150/165 grainers and makes bigger and deeper wounds/holes
3. 300 WM hits harder still with 180 grainers and just as hard with same at long distances
4. 338 hits harder than anything else I have shot (I never killed anything with .375 H&H, .416 Rigby or .458 Lott)
5. 9.3x62 hits even harder on denser animals but on deer does not seem to hit hard as it mostly goes through. But, it kills just as well as the .338 or better when it hits something stiffer like bones.

In the end, dead is dead and is deader better? Just more meat damage sometimes depending on the shot. But I agree on the .338 and up being another class. Coincidentally 1 of the whitetails I shot with the .338 also did not appear to be hit, just like with the 9.3x62. I was using Winchester's Fail Safe ammo at the time (all copper bullets) and it just zipped through the heart. Deer did not react, did not make a step and then keeled over dead after few seconds.

The beauty of the 7x57 and 9.3x62 is the limited meat destruction.

 

[ftrovato]

I do not have hundred's of deer dead but on the few I shot, I observed the following:

1. 7x57 hits much harder than the cartridge would suggest, even with only 139/140gr bullets
2. 30-06 hits harder yet with 150/165 grainers and makes bigger and deeper wounds/holes
3. 300 WM hits harder still with 180 grainers and just as hard with same at long distances
4. 338 hits harder than anything else I have shot (I never killed anything with .375 H&H, .416 Rigby or .458 Lott)
5. 9.3x62 hits even harder on denser animals but on deer does not seem to hit hard as it mostly goes through. But, it kills just as well as the .338 or better when it hits something stiffer like bones.

In the end, dead is dead and is deader better? Just more meat damage sometimes depending on the shot. But I agree on the .338 and up being another class. Coincidentally 1 of the whitetails I shot with the .338 also did not appear to be hit, just like with the 9.3x62. I was using Winchester's Fail Safe ammo at the time (all copper bullets) and it just zipped through the heart. Deer did not react, did not make a step and then keeled over dead after few seconds.

Milan,
I don't have 100s of deer in the books but I do have upward to a 100 taken.

I have done it with everything from 22LR to 416 Rigby.

I find that the the 338 bullets are the sweet spot in terms of overwhelming animals up to 600-700 lbs.

I have experience with .338 bullets from 160 to 225 grains and will be trying 275 Swifts on my next African safari. 340 WM is my go to cartridge since I reload.

I agree with your assessments and enjoy talking to your pointes endlessly!

 

[Creigh]

The differences I have experienced on whitetails says that the 30’s perform way better as far as putting them down. Your mileage may vary but I have never seen a 270 drop anything larger than a squirrel without a spine hit.

Not super scientific but it’s 100’s of deer.

Herein lies the difference. We have a lot of game that is accessible to a 243. My hunting bud hunter did 20 years with a model 70 243. He would would laugh at this thread. I think the biggest he took was wildebeest but that was a chance meet in the bush and a great shot behind the ear.
Do American go from whitetail down to gopher? What's between those two?

I used to say I would never hunt outside of 400 yards but we have springbok in the Free State who are you coming in very flat terrain. If be tempted to take the 300 even though a lot of what I have will do the job.

 

[Milan]

The beauty of the 7x57 and 9.3x62 is the limited meat destruction.

Due to slower bullet speeds no doubt. Mind you the 139 SST is going at 2830 or so...

 

[Milan]

Milan,
I don't have 100s of deer in the books but I do have upward to a 100 taken.

I have done it with everything from 22LR to 416 Rigby.

I find that the the 338 bullets are the sweet spot in terms of overwhelming animals up to 600-700 lbs.

I have experience with .338 bullets from 160 to 225 grains and will be trying 275 Swifts on my next African safari. 340 WM is my go to cartridge since I reload.

I agree with your assessments and enjoy talking to your pointes endlessly!

Thank you. I like discussing anything gun, cartridge or hunt related. Anytime. I like to learn from experiences of others as well as my own. Love discussing the differences and the similarities.

 

[Dukeisok]

I will say that, while I hate my 338, and I have mostly classic cartridges invented generations before I was thought about, I actually really like the 6.5 creedmoor on its capabilities. I have taught all of my kids to shoot on it, and it has accounted for more deer in our house than all other cartridges combined (we're in NC and our deer are small). It doesn't do anything that a 6.5 swede doesn't do, but it's harder to find a good, reasonably priced, 6.5 swede in the US anymore.

My oldest is in a christian youth outdoor organization (CTO or cross trail outfitters), that I cannot recommend enough. They have loaner rifles that are all ruger americans in 6.5 creed with 3-9 leupold scopes. Perfect for introducing kids to the outdoors.

My youngest is 6 and a lefty. I came across a zastava m70 left hand model in 6.5 swede and laid it in storage for him.

I have a problem and I have probably 40 calibers. I find myself gravitating to the golden mean of the 6.5 for work around here. Never been to Africa but probably would take a 30-06 or 375 depending on what I plan.

Let the flames begin...

 

[Creigh]

I will say that, while I hate my 338, and I have mostly classic cartridges invented generations before I was thought about, I actually really like the 6.5 creedmoor on its capabilities. I have taught all of my kids to shoot on it, and it has accounted for more deer in our house than all other cartridges combined (we're in NC and our deer are small). It doesn't do anything that a 6.5 swede doesn't do, but it's harder to find a good, reasonably priced, 6.5 swede in the US anymore.

My oldest is in a christian youth outdoor organization (CTO or cross trail outfitters), that I cannot recommend enough. They have loaner rifles that are all ruger americans in 6.5 creed with 3-9 leupold scopes. Perfect for introducing kids to the outdoors.

My youngest is 6 and a lefty. I came across a zastava m70 left hand model in 6.5 swede and laid it in storage for him.

I have a problem and I have probably 40 calibers. I find myself gravitating to the golden mean of the 6.5 for work around here. Never been to Africa but probably would take a 30-06 or 375 depending on what I plan.

Let the flames begin...

No flames from me, sounds good. I'll in all likelihood get the same zastava lefty action for a rifle repair I've got coming up. That or a good old Karabiner 98, I like the flag safety. All the best.

 

[deewayne2003]

The differences I have experienced on whitetails says that the 30’s perform way better as far as putting them down. Your mileage may vary but I have never seen a 270 drop anything larger than a squirrel without a spine hit.

Not super scientific but it’s 100’s of deer.

Funny, I’ve killed a couple of hundred whitetail myself with a .270win and have dropped them at distance including 325yds this season with 140gr Hornady BTSP to the center shoulder; although I do prefer the Accubond 140gr for deer when the bucks in my area can go 240lbs +

Although I whole heartedly agree the .30’s hit with more authority and when I’m strictly buck hunting I prefer my .300win, like opening evening of rifle season I shot a 200lbs 10point at 225yds with a 180gr Hornady BTSP in the center shoulder and he pushed with his hind legs for 30yds.

Like you I’ve shot as many as 55 in a season for years on end and trying the different calibers and bullets is how I keep it fun.

 

[Milan]

Funny, I’ve killed a couple of hundred whitetail myself with a .270win and have dropped them at distance including 325yds this season with 140gr Hornady BTSP to the center shoulder; although I do prefer the Accubond 140gr for deer when the bucks in my area can go 240lbs +

Although I whole heartedly agree the .30’s hit with more authority and when I’m strictly buck hunting I prefer my .300win, like opening evening of rifle season I shot a 200lbs 10point at 225yds with a 180gr Hornady BTSP in the center shoulder and he pushed with his hind legs for 30yds.

Like you I’ve shot as many as 55 in a season for years on end and trying the different calibers and bullets is how I keep it fun.

I'm envious. How the heck do you get to shoot 55 animals in a season? We get 1 tag a year. If you are lucky you get 1 or 2 supplemental tags for does. Sometimes we get 2 cow elk tags instead of just one. So, if you have the time and are good and luck you can bag 5 at most. Has not happened to me yet. I know in Europe and Africa the culling allows them to take more game. I would love that. Both for the meat and the experience with different calibers and bullets. Alas I live her in Alberta.

 

[MS 9x56]

I'm envious. How the heck do you get to shoot 55 animals in a season? We get 1 tag a year. If you are lucky you get 1 or 2 supplemental tags for does. Sometimes we get 2 cow elk tags instead of just one. So, if you have the time and are good and luck you can bag 5 at most. Has not happened to me yet. I know in Europe and Africa the culling allows them to take more game. I would love that. Both for the meat and the experience with different calibers and bullets. Alas I live her in Alberta.

Gotta be a fat fingered 5. I am lucky if I see 55 deer in a season and we have 100 day seasons.

 

[Milan]

Gotta be a fat fingered 5. I am lucky if I see 55 deer in a season and we have 100 day seasons.

Gotcha. Still 100 days is nice. We get about 60. In EU they seem to have short seasons also but many a year. Other than Dec-Feb I think something is always in season and pigs all year round.

 

[deewayne2003]

I'm envious. How the heck do you get to shoot 55 animals in a season? We get 1 tag a year. If you are lucky you get 1 or 2 supplemental tags for does. Sometimes we get 2 cow elk tags instead of just one. So, if you have the time and are good and luck you can bag 5 at most. Has not happened to me yet. I know in Europe and Africa the culling allows them to take more game. I would love that. Both for the meat and the experience with different calibers and bullets. Alas I live her in Alberta.

Gotta be a fat fingered 5. I am lucky if I see 55 deer in a season and we have 100 day seasons.

No sir, not a fat finger I mean 55 with DMAP tags.

Southern Oklahoma where I hunt was basically shot out of whitetail during the depression; the restocking has been a resounding success, however they were too conservative with the doe harvest and limits for decades.

So enter DMAP tags(Deer Management Assistance Program) you do surveys and turn in the numbers and they issue property owner tags.

So with my lifetime license I can shoot as many doe as I have DMAP tags for and I hunt multiple properties with their own tags.

Killing and skinning that many deer a year is a lot of work and property owners love to have help with it; and I also guide hunts.

Just with my over the counter tags I could shoot 2 bucks and 6 doe yearly if I use the different seasons.

So yes to keep it interesting for years I bought different calibers just to experiment with them on whitetail.

Hence my opinion that deer rifles start at .257Rob/7mm-08 and go up for there.

 

[MS 9x56]

Gotcha. Still 100 days is nice. We get about 60. In EU they seem to have short seasons also but many a year. Other than Dec-Feb I think something is always in season and pigs all year round.

I should have qualified that as 45 days of that is bow season only and another 12 days are muzzleloading guns only.

 

[thriller]

No sir, not a fat finger I mean 55 with DMAP tags.

Southern Oklahoma where I hunt was basically shot out of whitetail during the depression; the restocking has been a resounding success, however they were too conservative with the doe harvest and limits for decades.

So enter DMAP tags(Deer Management Assistance Program) you do surveys and turn in the numbers and they issue property owner tags.

So with my lifetime license I can shoot as many doe as I have DMAP tags for and I hunt multiple properties with their own tags.

Killing and skinning that many deer a year is a lot of work and property owners love to have help with it; and I also guide hunts.

Just with my over the counter tags I could shoot 2 bucks and 6 doe yearly if I use the different seasons.

So yes to keep it interesting for years I bought different calibers just to experiment with them on whitetail.

Hence my opinion that deer rifles start at .257Rob/7mm-08 and go up for there.

Nice we are on a daily limit here for does and 3 bucks a year. It used to be 2 does and 1 buck per day. We have a lot of deer in this part of Alabama. I use 308/ a drilling 12x12x30-06/ and my 450/400 primarily but also have my grandfathers 270 and a 300 win mag I through in the mix.

 

[MS 9x56]

What reaction and how big of a hole when you hit an Alabama deer with a 450/400?

 

[thriller]

What reaction and how big of a hole when you hit an Alabama deer with a 450/400?

Hole is not too bad bullet doesn’t expand too much in a deer, it expands more in hogs ( I figure this has to do with density of a hog vs deer?) if I hit bone it’s dead right there if I don’t hit bone they usually make it about 20 steps on a chest shot

 

[Milan]

Hole is not too bad bullet doesn’t expand too much in a deer, it expands more in hogs ( I figure this has to do with density of a hog vs deer?) if I hit bone it’s dead right there if I don’t hit bone they usually make it about 20 steps on a chest shot

This density theory matches mine…