Cartridges you just hate

[akrifleman]

it's prob be a better alternative than .223 in the AR (for military use.)

Probably why everyone has been trying to stuff ANYTHING else into the AR15s/AR10s. The 5.56 (223) lacks in a lot of ways ;-) Incidentally, the military (SOCOM) adopted it in 2017 for that reason.

 

[Vashper]

I'm sorry, there was an interesting letter here against the 375 caliber, but I lost the link. Maybe someone remembers?

 

[franzfmdavis]

I can’t believe you got them to answer your needs. I can’t get a response out of them.

I emailed them a couple times and they were very responsive – within 24 hours if I recall – and shipped
out the purchase right away

 

[ftrovato]

I pre-date rangefinders (i remember the dial parallax-types for archery lol). I could make some really good shots with my old 300 WM (gun accurized and of course using handloads. Archery and woodchuck hunting teach you distance estimation (in 10 or 100 yd increments) and you simply had to learn your crosshairs and use 'em to measure holdover (i.e. 6", 12", 18", 24" typ drop out to 500 yds-handloading w/ 165s could push it to 600.) Strong wind (with NO range flags) forget it back then! Even lead tips are good for 450ish (hunting bullets) yds, so under field conditions, at elevation in the wind, snow, cold, etc. that's still good shooting. I recall the 1,000 yd and 3,000 yd competitions and the victors were 300 WM, 300 Wby and 6.5-300 Wby (a wildcat at the time.) The best 264 variant there is nowadays, although it requires a LA rather than the SA of the WSM/RSAUM variants (which translates into a lighter, smaller mountain rifle). Target shooting and hunting conditions shots are completely different animals! Typically you have your equipment, a rock, a jacket, a pack or some bipods, and that's it....If I don't feel comfy with a shot for any reason, I don't take it. Longest shot I took on game with the older equipment was 400 yds with the 300 WM as a teen, and it was phenomenal. Last day, last hour deer, just came out of the far woods at the end of a field in some very nice winter weather! I don't own that particular farm (we leased it) but when I drive by I smile! I love longer shots! They're challenging. And, I'm certain my ancestors did same during the Revolution, as necessary. It's in my DNA. I don't go looking for long shots, but if one presents itself and I'm carrying the right gun, I'll take it. It's what rifles were designed for (extending the distance over spears and arrows.) To each, their own. No crying.

I set myself up for success and what I call "long shots" all of my life. I love taking long shots at game.

However, for me "long shots" are broadside animals that are standing, not alert within 250-400 yards with little to no wind. Beyond that, I leave them for someone else!

I've helped track to many animals that people shot at beyond their means! When I see them doing that I go the other way and don't answer my phone anymore!

 

[C.W. Richter]

I set myself up for success and what I call "long shots" all of my life. I love taking long shots at game.

However, for me "long shots" are broadside animals that are standing, not alert within 250-400 yards with little to no wind. Beyond that, I leave them for someone else!

I've helped track to many animals that people shot at beyond their means! When I see them doing that I go the other way and don't answer my phone anymore!

Sadly, I've found a LOT of others' deer while stalking/stillhunting/snow tracking afar...and most weren't long range misses, MOST were those using varmint bullets that blew up on the near hide/shoulder upon the shot (.243 w/ 87 gr being the worst violator, EVER.) Now, we're talking 250 lb brutes imported from the U. Peninsula of MI in the early-mid 1900s when prior commercial hunting and NO conservation occurred.) I still have some neighbors that hunt with .22-250 (and it's legal,) but sometimes those longer body shots don't work out. Ballistics. Get to know it! (Farmers love head shots, preserving the meat, and that's fine...but just today I got a msg about a deer running 'round with a partial jaw missing on one side and the tongue hanging out.) It Happens! -OJ lol (and still LOL it looks like OJ hunted it with Nicole's finest cutlery.)

 

[C.W. Richter]

Building upon that, most down S love the 130 pills (270) on deer (and that's fine.) But, up north where they get to be 3x heavier, that's a rather low SD bullet for caliber...i recommend 145 min (150 even better.) When that deer is quartering toward you at 300 yd, you'll be glad you selected the right ballistic! (It keeps your friends hunting with NO disturbances.) lol

 

[C.W. Richter]

I set myself up for success and what I call "long shots" all of my life. I love taking long shots at game.

However, for me "long shots" are broadside animals that are standing, not alert within 250-400 yards with little to no wind. Beyond that, I leave them for someone else!

I've helped track to many animals that people shot at beyond their means! When I see them doing that I go the other way and don't answer my phone anymore!

I have driven by (down in the stream valley) those abandoned mining/logging towns but have never been to them. I know they even have walking tours today...is there anything to see? I'd love to check it out sometime. 'drove by not too long ago as a farmer has a parts machine I'm considering.) That, and the Park Hotel food is phenomenal!

 

[C.W. Richter]

Probably why everyone has been trying to stuff ANYTHING else into the AR15s/AR10s. The 5.56 (223) lacks in a lot of ways ;-) Incidentally, the military (SOCOM) adopted it in 2017 for that reason.

i was surprised to read of the (what is it 6.8) that the military will use (.270?) Apparently Jack O/MSM is still twisting Democrat arms!!! LOL The 6.5 is PERFECT for military (just ask any EU country for a lifetime!) Less dragging (people and scheduled war-for-profit timelines). NO LOL We do refer to most taxpaying idiots (or scamming idiots!) as Sheep, so perhaps that's why AI selected the 270 for military use?

 

[C.W. Richter]

In conclusion, on to how to backpedal on "hating," LOL-JM Browning perfected/improvised a nearly/arguably perfect design by Paul Mauser...The '06 cartridge is an improvement of Mauser's late 1800s design. Both gents are significant in this case. (no pun intended). Admittedly, the '06 case in any caliber is about as efficient (powderwise, feed/extract, OAL, recoil, etc.) as it gets. Pleasant to shoot, accurate, and if you're ok with your game running 100'+ before it falls over, that's just fine. My son/I have killed more game with the same Rem 7600 pump than all others combined! Cases that take 60+/- gr powder in mid-bores (this includes so many-757AI, 7 mag, 264 mag/WSM, 257 Wby but those need a fine SS bbl) are purely the most efficient, and you'll NEVER experience overpressure, bbls wearing out, etc. I respect that, and the aforementioned gunsmithing/ballistics aficionados! Here, here!!! Since that time (>100 years ago) the world has not stood still, and up until the economics that roll out the smaller, plastic crap for profit, there have been MANY cartridge improvements (Gibbs, Ackley, A-Sq, PPC-logic that blew the dam wide open for the SM cartridges. All phenomenal improvements to our game, which we should take advantage of (in bigger country.) A 7-08 is just fine for the average black plastic wally-world gun for deer/pigs featuring the chinese (American branded) scope in the hands of weekend warriors to 300ish yards.

My wish is that the current USA admins reduce the big govt waste so much (and redirect OUR tax monies to the appropriate places for once, whilst giving us all who've paid it breaks in many facets) that we can all enjoy our hunting passions so much more, both afar and on the homefront. Those kmart pieces wouldn't have even been offered for sale, if NOT for corrupt politicians that have stolen so much of our money! TRUE. F Them. 2025-The Year of Reckoning!

 

[C.W. Richter]

Everyone I knew chasing fads went with 6.5x284 which required a long action. Once that fad died, I saw the CM fanaticism and of course they fit in a slightly smaller action.

The 6.5x54MS did it all already in a custom designed rifle and magazine. If I need improvement, the 6.5x55 did it.

I’m skeptical of strangers bearing gifts and any cartridge less than 80 years old.

Trump is a MAJOR Improvement over Biden.

 

[375er]

Everyone I knew chasing fads went with 6.5x284 which required a long action. Once that fad died, I saw the CM fanaticism and of course they fit in a slightly smaller action.

The 6.5x54MS did it all already in a custom designed rifle and magazine. If I need improvement, the 6.5x55 did it.

I’m skeptical of strangers bearing gifts and any cartridge less than 80 years old.

@Rookhawk I will gladly take the .284 win as designed, along with the 25-06, 30-06, 375 H&H, and through in the .22 Hornet and the 25-35 Winchester. Old enough for ya?

 

[Boone66]

Never. Maybe a sparrow from point blank range. I think it's mostly good for spiders and such.

Works in mice and rats, as.long as your close. A pellet gun kills a lot better then that shot.

 

[akrifleman]

i was surprised to read of the (what is it 6.8) that the military will use (.270?) Apparently Jack O/MSM is still twisting Democrat arms!!! LOL The 6.5 is PERFECT for military (just ask any EU country for a lifetime!) Less dragging (people and scheduled war-for-profit timelines). NO LOL We do refer to most taxpaying idiots (or scamming idiots!) as Sheep, so perhaps that's why AI selected the 270 for military use?

The government did a study some years ago... and I wish I could recall the source. The study claimed that 6.8(277) was the ideal balance for lethality, carry ability, and I want to say ballistics. So while everyone else went 6.5 or 7, the data wonks want the next gen cartridge to be 6.8. LWRC and Sig both cited it as the reason the Six8 and 277 SigFury were not what anyone else really wanted. I'll source it if I can find it. Or somebody more knowledgeable can chime in.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

9x19 9mm pistol useless piece of shit & i hate Glocks. M1911 45 ACP best hand gun ever made.

@rdog
I love the 45s but also love the Browning 9mm high power just a pity they didn't make it in 45 ACP
Vob

 

[rdog]

@rdog
I love the 45s but also love the Browning 9mm high power just a pity they didn't make it in 45 ACP
Vob

Yes Bob, having shot a lot of ammo through both in my Army days & later in competitive IPSC i rank the Browning Highpower may be better than the M1911. shame about the 9 MM i am of the same opinion of the 9MM as you are of the 243 WIn. Would have been good in 9x21 or 10 MM Auto.

 

[C.W. Richter]

The government did a study some years ago... and I wish I could recall the source. The study claimed that 6.8(277) was the ideal balance for lethality, carry ability, and I want to say ballistics. So while everyone else went 6.5 or 7, the data wonks want the next gen cartridge to be 6.8. LWRC and Sig both cited it as the reason the Six8 and 277 SigFury were not what anyone else really wanted. I'll source it if I can find it. Or somebody more knowledgeable can chime in.

nothing big gov't. is EVER good. same for big business. it's interest does NOT lie in the end user and/or payor. that said, a 270 slug IS an upgrade from 224.

 

[akrifleman]

The government did a study some years ago... and I wish I could recall the source. The study claimed that 6.8(277) was the ideal balance for lethality, carry ability, and I want to say ballistics. So while everyone else went 6.5 or 7, the data wonks want the next gen cartridge to be 6.8. LWRC and Sig both cited it as the reason the Six8 and 277 SigFury were not what anyone else really wanted. I'll source it if I can find it. Or somebody more knowledgeable can chime in.

Found it:
Joint Service Wound Ballistics–Integrated Product Team

They identified that 7mm had the best penetration and 6.5mm had the best ballistics, and 6.8mm provided what they found to be the ideal balance of lethality, penetration, and ballistics. This was particularly true for over 300 yds, and another army paper found over fifty percent of firefights in the war were now over that distance.

The gov't then went on to create a competitive program for the Next Gen rifle series, and wanted a new 6.8 projectile out of a yet to be determined case, that fit certain criteria. Due to the significant weight increase that 30TC and 308 based parents caused, the army wanted next generation cases as well that would push lighter ammo to higher velocities. So, things like polymer based cases, high pressure cases, etc... all entered competition to provide a 6.8mm in a lighter package.

Agree or disagree with the Army, that is the reason we have these new lighter non-brass cases, new high pressure cases, and 6.8mm offerings. I mean... I'm no forensic pathologist, but a .277 can't be worse than a .224 if the ammo weight is close to the same.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Found it:
Joint Service Wound Ballistics–Integrated Product Team

They identified that 7mm had the best penetration and 6.5mm had the best ballistics, and 6.8mm provided what they found to be the ideal balance of lethality, penetration, and ballistics. This was particularly true for over 300 yds, and another army paper found over fifty percent of firefights in the war were now over that distance.

The gov't then went on to create a competitive program for the Next Gen rifle series, and wanted a new 6.8 projectile out of a yet to be determined case, that fit certain criteria. Due to the significant weight increase that 30TC and 308 based parents caused, the army wanted next generation cases as well that would push lighter ammo to higher velocities. So, things like polymer based cases, high pressure cases, etc... all entered competition to provide a 6.8mm in a lighter package.

Agree or disagree with the Army, that is the reason we have these new lighter non-brass cases, new high pressure cases, and 6.8mm offerings. I mean... I'm no forensic pathologist, but a .277 can't be worse than a .224 if the ammo weight is close to the same.

no way a 277 is worse. MUCH better downrange ballistics and E! I also cringe when i think of (corrupt, in bed with leftover 270 bullet mfr, et. al.) any big gov't. "decisionmaking skills employed." Employment may be shorter than anticipated! LOL but a better decision than 224, that's for sure!

 

[C.W. Richter]

sometimes they make decisions such as (bullets, not ammo, cannot be fired in an enemy weapon of differing calibers...6.5, 7, etc.) and if that were a criteria, I understand...but, it works both ways!) if it became a NATO std i guess that'd be just fine.