Canadian travel agent

[Red Leg]

GRACY TRAVEL - They understand travelling with weapons. THOROUGHLY

 

[Hank2211]

GRACY TRAVEL - They understand travelling with weapons. THOROUGHLY

Red Leg, I'm sure they're very good - only heard good things, but I'd have to be convinced they know Canadian law. Do they?

 

[Red Leg]

I have no idea - But I have a really good suggestion. You contact them.

 

[Hank2211]

I have no idea - But I have a really good suggestion. You contact them.

I'll leave that to the fellow who was looking for a travel agent. I'm happy with my local people!

 

[sheephunterab]

Hank....I would suggest filling out Namibia form in advance as it will save you some time there.

Going through the US really isn't that scary. There's no way you can get in trouble...let alone a felony charge if you don't hide the fact you have firearms. I'd suggest getting a 6N1A before travel just in case but even if things go awry, they will issue a temporary permit. I agree London and Frankfurt are the easiest but going through the U.S. Isn't going to land you in jail.

 

[Hank2211]

Hank....I would suggest filling out Namibia form in advance as it will save you some time there.

Going through the US really isn't that scary. There's no way you can get in trouble...let alone a felony charge if you don't hide the fact you have firearms. I'd suggest getting a 6N1A before travel just in case but even if things go awry, they will issue a temporary permit. I agree London and Frankfurt are the easiest but going through the U.S. Isn't going to land you in jail.

You can certainly fill out the form on the plane, or anywhere else for that matter. I found that I had plenty of time waiting for the officer to show up, and it's a pretty simple form. but you are right.

As for transiting the US with firearms, this is what Jerome says in that particular thread:

If you have problems with a flight resulting in an flight delay or have an extended layover while in the US, under no circumstances should you claim your firearms or baggage containing ammunition in the US. Instruct your airline to hold your baggage until your next flight or arrangements can be made for another flight. Should your firearms and ammunition come out on the baggage carousel or should your airline want you to collect it from baggage claim, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TOUCH IT! Instead immediately report the problem to US Customs and Border Security, an agent should get your firearms and ammunition back to where it belongs. DO NOT try to take your firearms and ammunition to US Customs, allow them to handle it. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take any chance of being in possession of a firearms and ammunition in the US without proper importation documents.
​

Things may have changed, but to me, it's all a bit unclear. First of all, you can't really apply for an ATF 6N1A because you won't be hunting in the US, and that form is specifically restricted to imports (not transits) for the purpose of hunting. You could apply for a DSP-61 from the State Department, but that form is really for people in the arms business, and I have been told by State that they don't want to issue them for one-off transits by hunters.

This is what the law actually says:

18 USC s.922

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(5) who, being an alien—

(B)except as provided in subsection (2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));


Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—


Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

(A)admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;​

This is the only applicable exception that I can find (there are others, but unless you're a government official, or similar, they don't help).

As a Canadian, you could argue that you are not admitted to the US under a nonimmigrant visa, because Canadian don't need a visa. But this is a visa exemption, and it's not 100% clear that it lets you off the hook.

To cloud matters even further, the is what CBP says on its website:

Canadians are no longer required to have a hunting license to just transit the United States with a firearm. ​

In discussions with a US CBP officer in Calgary when I was looking at going through the US, he gave me advice similar to what Jerome includes on this site.

So all in all, unless you really want to try it, I would just stay away. There are better and easier ways to go anyway - from Calgary (where I think our flyer was leaving from), it will take you at least two flights to get to Atlanta, or Dulles, and you don't want to go through New York (apparently). Easier to go to London or Frankfurt and then one more plane to Namibia or Jo'burg.

Whew.

 

[sheephunterab]

I wouldn't say that's bad advice from Jerome....the key is just to let authorities know what's going on if something goes awry. The same could be said about any country really. Take possession of your firearm in London and I suspect you'd be in the same pickle. My point was, with a bit of common sense, you aren't going to end up a felon just transiting a U.S. airport with firearms.

 

[BRICKBURN]

When I researched this some years ago (2010) and found that ATF was no longer issuing transit permits and the only law left in place was to apply for the $500 permit/processing fee through the State Department I was a little shocked.
Then finally determined no one was really enforcing the law. That was the key, they could enforce it but choose not to.

It is much easier for us to avoid the US and plane changes the ensue and use other routes to Africa.

http://www.africahunting.com/thread...or-you-to-worry-about-dsp-61.4299/#post-20010

Apparently this has been addressed directly and updated, at least for Canadians. Yeah!
(Four years later.)

Permit to transit the U.S. with a firearm/ammunition
If I am transiting the U.S. with a firearm, do I need a permit?


Generally, if a nonimmigrant alien is transiting the United States with a firearm they are not required to have an ATF Form 6NIA or a DSP-61 issued by the State Department. You must be in physical possession of your firearm, however you will need to meet one of the exceptions outlined at 18 U.S.C. 922 . For example if you are a nonimmigrant alien and you will be driving through the United States as a short cut to get from one part of Canada to another and will have firearms with you, you do not need to file an ATF Form 6NIA because you are not temporarily bringing your gun in for hunting or other lawful sporting purposes. You also do not need a DSP-61 import license from the State Department because there is an exception to their license requirement that applies in this situation.

However, please note that even if you qualify for one of the exceptions from the ATF and State Department requirements, you may need to have a valid hunting license from a State within the United States to make your possession of the firearm legal while you are in the United States (even if you will not hunt while in the U.S.). NOTE: Canadians are no longer required to have a hunting license to just transit the United States with a firearm. However, if while transiting the United States, you want to use your firearm to hunt in the United States, you must obtain a valid hunting license from the appropriate State.

You must ensure there are no State or local laws in any State you will be travelling in or travelling through prohibiting your possession of the firearm(s) or ammunition.

For more information, Contact ATF.

 

[sheephunterab]

While that was intended primarily for those driving through the U.S., I guess it could apply to flying. The fact about flying is that you need to clear U.S. Customs before getting on your plane in Canada and not after so U.S. Customs has already cleared you for transiting before you ever leave Canada. We had friends have a flight cancelled on them in Atlanta and they were required to take possession of their firearms. The friendly customs people issued them a temporary permit and they took their guns to the hotel for the night and boarded their plane the following day. As long as you don't try to walk out of the terminal with your firearm if something goes awry but rather you contact Customs immediately you are fine. I always have a 6N1A on my firearms I'm transiting....it's free and kind of a get out of jail free card the way I look at it but it is not required.

 

[BRICKBURN]

............ As long as you don't try to walk out of the terminal with your firearm if something goes awry but rather you contact Customs immediately you are fine. ....

I have my 6NIA for every firearm in the cabinet too.

Quite some time ago (20 years) I walked off the plane in Hawaii and straight out of the terminal. Was asked by a police officer in the terminal what I had in the case, I told him it was a shotgun and he just waved me on. I had no idea about 6NIA or in fact the strict requirements for Hawaii all on its own.
Ignorance was bliss.

I think things have changed.

Now, I'd just ask for directions and help as your friend did.

 

[sheephunterab]

Haha...it likely wasn't a requirement then but times sure have changed that's for sure. If unsure ask and you rarely get into trouble.

 

[Hank2211]

I have a strong preference for obeying the law. This allows me to take principled positions with authority figures when necessary. I would rather not have to rely on their not having a bad day.

 

[sheephunterab]

I don't believe anyone was suggesting any different Hank. I've been in and out of the U.S. dozens of times with firearms...all 100% aboveboard!

 

[BRICKBURN]

......... I would rather not have to rely on their not having a bad day.

That is always my worst nightmare. Am I going to get the guy who's lunch just got stolen or you happen to look like the bully that beat him up in primary school.

 

[Hank2211]

I was the guy who got beaten up.

 

[sheephunterab]

Haha...once you've traveled with firearms through Asia and Russia, the American customs guys seem like pussy cats. I'd agree to avoid U.S. if possible but it's not a huge deal to go via that route if need be.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I was the guy who got beaten up.

I know this will shock you. I was the kid who walked the kids home safely to protect them from bullies.

 

[Hank2211]

I know this will shock you. I was the kid who walked the kids home safely to protect them from bullies.

I assumed you were small . . . and short . . .

 

[BRICKBURN]

I assumed you were small . . . and short . . .

I must have been sitting when we met.

 

[Hank2211]

I must have been sitting when we met.

Actually you were towering the we met . . . I assumed you had a late growth spurt . . .