Calibers for leopard

[thriller]

Oh, and Zambia has a minimum caliber requirement of .300 for both.lion and leopard. Still not .375.

Guess I was a bit confused by your response Doug this is what I was saying as well.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

If I was going to the gun safe to get a rifle for a client to use on a leopard only hunt. I would grab my Kahles scoped pre-64 CRF in .300 win mag. and grab a box of some Fed Prem 150 grn. Trophy Bonded. Some might argue about the Trophy Bonded Bear claws, but they are all I have and they have always worked in the past.

 

[IvW]

One thing really shows the bias, people who think the 7x57 is much better than a 6.5 CM.
If you shoot a 156gr Oryx out of a Creed and a 175gr anything in a 7x57 you will NOT see any difference on game.
In fact a Leopard is one of the only animals where a soft bullet is better than a premium; load up those 143gr ELD-X and explode them in the chest.

The fact that all he has is a 6,5 CM is the issue, where is this hunting area?
How old is the PH?

Id use a 9.3x62 with PPU softs or Partitions. And have a shotgun with buckshot handy too.

Have to disagree here.....
6.5CM and 7x57mm are a big difference....
120gr and the mentioned 143gr ELD-X are the Creedmore medicine.....
The 143gr bullet is definately not a short close range hunting bullet.....it will loose more than 50% of its weight at leopard hunting distances.....
Not the caliber or the bullet I would recommend for leopard......
Neither would I recommend buckshot on leopard....unless whoever does the follow up needs some time off work and has a very good medical aid.....

 

[reineke]

With already almost everything said on the caliber question I would like to add something regarding Leopard hunting. I shot three of them, always with my .300 Mag and quality softpoints.
But apart from that, I would NEVER hunt Chui with a rented rifle of whatsoever caliber. Leopard hunting is a matter of excellent scopes with illuminated recticle, a top trigger and a rifle that you know by heart and are totally comfortable with, so to steady your nerves when your tom shows up. No rented rifle can deliver all of these factors together.

 

[IvW]

Does something seem a bit off to you?

You have a lot more experience, in multiple countries, than I do. Does any country that you know require a .375 for leopard?

Doug

Yes it does....

Not where I hunt them 7mm is the main minimum and as listed 300 is the biggest I am aware of....but I would most definately not allow the use of a 6.5 Creedmore....the risks are just too high and being the 1 in front during a follow up...no thanks....

Too many compare leopards to white tail deer for example(weight wise anyway)...trust me there is no comparison....do your side as you should as a visiting hunter ....no problem...screw it up...big problem....
With the cost of a leopard hunt why would anybody in their right mind want to use a unproven wanna be cartridge? I doubt that ANY leopard has been hunted with a 6.5 NEEDMORE and it should stay like that.....
You want to hunt leopard use a rifle that you are very familiar and comfortable with....in 7mm where legal and bigger.....keep the rest for what they where intended for which is not leopard hunting.....
Bear in mind that some leopard in the 180 to 200 lb class are hunted and some Super cats are also encountered.....these being 200lb plus cats(I have had the privelage of hunting 2 of these 216 and 221lbs) now these cats are in a different class....

Next time whoever hunts a leopard look at the muscles....chest neck and forearms of a huge old male leopard and then get back to us and say a leopard is easy to kill....yip when all goes exactly as planned they are....if not....well somebody will find out soon enough....why take the chance....and endanger the well being of a PH and his trackers????

 

[IvW]

Just to add on in my first 2 years as an apprentice I shot 7 leopards...all problem livestock eating leopards...all from tree blinds never a ground blind...some baits where ground baits....they where all shot using 7x57mm and 308W....ideal caliber probably not but these where a mix of males and females....no pressure shots....not throphy hunting and nothing like a make or break shot for a visiting hunter who is under imense pressure and very often on a limited time and financial stress situation.....

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Hey Doug I can’t find any information that this is the case and it certainly wasn’t where I was in 2021. I would be very interested to see the regulations if you have a copy of them that you can provide.

Okay. Now I am confused. I said that .375 was not a required minimum for leopard in Zimbabwe (7mm is). You had already put out the same information, then said you couldn't find the information and wanted me to send it to you. Did you think I was saying the opposite? I had been responding to the guy that said that the .375 was the legal minimum for all of the big 5 in all of Africa, which is not correct.
Are we on.the same side now?

 

[Tanks]

Yes it does....
...
You want to hunt leopard use a rifle that you are very familiar and comfortable with....in 7mm where legal and bigger.....keep the rest for what they where intended for which is not leopard hunting.....
Bear in mind that some leopard in the 180 to 200 lb class are hunted and some Super cats are also encountered.....these being 200lb plus cats(I have had the privelage of hunting 2 of these 216 and 221lbs) now these cats are in a different class....

Next time whoever hunts a leopard look at the muscles....chest neck and forearms of a huge old male leopard and then get back to us and say a leopard is easy to kill....yip when all goes exactly as planned they are....if not....well somebody will find out soon enough....why take the chance....and endanger the well being of a PH and his trackers????

The leopard below was one of the oldest hunted at Dande (9 years) and made SCI book according to preliminary skull measurements. The guy holding it is over 6' 2", he needed help to get in a position for pic. Not a candidate for 6.5CM

 

[thriller]

Okay. Now I am confused. I said that .375 was not a required minimum for leopard in Zimbabwe (7mm is). You had already put out the same information, then said you couldn't find the information and wanted me to send it to you. Did you think I was saying the opposite? I had been responding to the guy that said that the .375 was the legal minimum for all of the big 5 in all of Africa, which is not correct.
Are we on.the same side now?

Yeah I thought you said it was the minimum and I put up the info above showing it wasn’t I was wondering how you hadn’t seen it…. Apparently my cold medicine lowered my reading comprehension temporarily haha

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Yes it does....

Not where I hunt them 7mm is the main minimum and as listed 300 is the biggest I am aware of....but I would most definately not allow the use of a 6.5 Creedmore....the risks are just too high and being the 1 in front during a follow up...no thanks....

Too many compare leopards to white tail deer for example(weight wise anyway)...trust me there is no comparison....do your side as you should as a visiting hunter ....no problem...screw it up...big problem....
With the cost of a leopard hunt why would anybody in their right mind want to use a unproven wanna be cartridge? I doubt that ANY leopard has been hunted with a 6.5 NEEDMORE and it should stay like that.....
You want to hunt leopard use a rifle that you are very familiar and comfortable with....in 7mm where legal and bigger.....keep the rest for what they where intended for which is not leopard hunting.....
Bear in mind that some leopard in the 180 to 200 lb class are hunted and some Super cats are also encountered.....these being 200lb plus cats(I have had the privelage of hunting 2 of these 216 and 221lbs) now these cats are in a different class....

Next time whoever hunts a leopard look at the muscles....chest neck and forearms of a huge old male leopard and then get back to us and say a leopard is easy to kill....yip when all goes exactly as planned they are....if not....well somebody will find out soon enough....why take the chance....and endanger the well being of a PH and his trackers????

I am in complete agreement. If I ever shoot a leopard I will use my .300 Win Mag. I am a firm believer in using enough gun, but I won't be using my .458 either.

Hey what do you have against the 6.5 Cm? Don't you know that it's perfect for everything up to elephant at 1000 yards? Okay, I'm joking, but someone will probably say that their .243 would be good for leopard, and I'm not buying that either, even if those two calibers were legal.

The leopard below was one of the oldest hunted at Dande (9 years) and made SCI book according to preliminary skull measurements. The guy holding it is over 6' 2", he needed help to get in a position for pic. Not a candidate for 6.5CM

View attachment 507981

Wow!

 

[ARHinAK]

What if, what if all the PH had for the hunter to use was an old Mod 70 in .264 Win Mag, rocking a 140 grain partition or swift at 2900+ FPS ??
Would such a setup smoke a leopard or no?
I know that a 6.5 cm and a .264 WM are not the same thing, so is it still a question of bore diameter or velocity?

 

[Tanks]

What if, what if all the PH had for the hunter to use was an old Mod 70 in .264 Win Mag, rocking a 140 grain partition or swift at 2900+ FPS ??
Would such a setup smoke a leopard or no?
I know that a 6.5 cm and a .264 WM are not the same thing, so is it still a question of bore diameter or velocity?

It should smoke the leopard but not legal in most countries, so a PH most likely would not have it or offer it. Also, was .264 Win Mag common in African nations? I would assume most older rifles to be either 7x57 or 9.3x62.

 

[ARHinAK]

It should smoke the leopard but not legal in most countries, so a PH most likely would not have it or offer it. Also, was .264 Win Mag common in African nations? I would assume most older rifles to be either 7x57 or 9.3x62.

Fair enough.
I think it would be fascinating if some outfitter or group of outfitters collected data on leopard hunts.
Leopards killed, broken down by caliber, one shot dead right there, shot and wounded requiring follow up, and wounded and lost.
For the sake of having a dividing line amongst cartridges we could do from .270 to .30 cal for the low end and from .33 cal to skys the limit on the high side.
If cold emotionless numbers were used I wonder what they’d tell us.

 

[enysse]

I used a 7 mm Rem Mag and 160 grain Swift A but still the leopard ran 100 yards and was dead on his feet. Leopards that have been eating cattle and wired hard to escape. Accuracy is paramount but so is having enough gun. If you are confident with your .338 Win Mag or 375 H&H go ahead but I think you need no more than 300 Win Mag with a quality bullet.

 

[DLSJR]

What if, what if all the PH had for the hunter to use was an old Mod 70 in .264 Win Mag, rocking a 140 grain partition or swift at 2900+ FPS ??
Would such a setup smoke a leopard or no?
I know that a 6.5 cm and a .264 WM are not the same thing, so is it still a question of bore diameter or velocity?

I shoot a 264 a lot, so much that I’m on my 2nd barrel. I’m confident a 264 would work well on a leopard if using an appropriate bullet like a Nosler Partition or Accubond, Remington CoreLokt (I’ve shot these a lot in my 264) or Sierra Game King. But it’s not legal for leopard so nothing more than a discussion point. And, personally, I’ve never taken my 264 to Africa, a 270 is the smallest rifle I’ve ever taken and I never carried it in a leopard blind.
But if I was going to do it I’d probably shoot a 125 grain Partition at 3,200 fps (my pet load is a 127 Barnes LRX at 3,220) which would provide quite a bit of shock and also likely exit. If we had to follow the cat from the tree, I’d be carrying my 416 instead of the 264. Interesting question you posed.

But when I’m sitting in a leopard blind in the Selous, eight months from now, I’ll have my 338 sitting on the sticks.

 

[Surgeon1]

6.5 Creed is the perfect elephant caliber! Those ceramic Souvenir elephants don't stand a chance if less than 6 inch tall! They are minimum for Wyoming Snowshoe Hares!

For leopard you must be crazy, a wounded leopard maybe the most dangerous animal there is!
Use a rifle you can shoot well under even the worst conditions with adequate power and premium bullets to do the job in one shot! A personal rifle that is an extension of your soul is a good start!
Make the shot so everyone goes home alive and healthy.

A 30 cal with proper bullets should get the job done, shoot a 338 or 375 well you won't be over gunned! For me what is the one gun that will get the job done in Africa.....375!

 

[Jim Golden]

I shoot a 264 a lot, so much that I’m on my 2nd barrel. I’m confident a 264 would work well on a leopard if using an appropriate bullet like a Nosler Partition or Accubond, Remington CoreLokt (I’ve shot these a lot in my 264) or Sierra Game King. But it’s not legal for leopard so nothing more than a discussion point. And, personally, I’ve never taken my 264 to Africa, a 270 is the smallest rifle I’ve ever taken and I never carried it in a leopard blind.
But if I was going to do it I’d probably shoot a 125 grain Partition at 3,200 fps (my pet load is a 127 Barnes LRX at 3,220) which would provide quite a bit of shock and also likely exit. If we had to follow the cat from the tree, I’d be carrying my 416 instead of the 264. Interesting question you posed.

But when I’m sitting in a leopard blind in the Selous, eight months from now, I’ll have my 338 sitting on the sticks.

I have a Model 70 in .264 Win Mag and absolutely love it. I hand load, and I'm pushing a 140 at 3100 ft/s. I have only shot white tail deer with it, but it's absolutely nuclear on them. Exit hole was the size of a soup can. Deer was dead before it hit the ground. The only other rifle I have that drops them like that is a .270 Weatherby Accumark. I have only ever had one deer, take one step, after being hit by it. All this being said, I think when I come to Africa, I'm only bringing one rifle: My .375 Weatherby that I built myself on a P17 action with an A-Square stock and a long Douglas Barrel. I chrono a 300gr at 2889 ft/s. The rifle is heavy...12lbs empty, but has a 16oz mercury recoil reducer in the stock. I can shoot it accurately and control the recoil. So I think just use one gun and one load for everything. I mainly want to hunt cape buffalo. But, crocks and everything else should go down to a 300gr A-Frame. I've also got the Cutting Edge Bullets solids and Raptors. Also Barnes TSX's. I also have some Woodleight Weldcore 300's but folks on here tell me they don't like the velocity so I'm looking at maybe getting some 350's. At some point I will look at building or getting a bigger rifle, but for now this one will have to do.

 

[xausa]

I was more concerned about my own performance on a leopard than I was with elephant, rhino, buffalo and lion, the reason being that wounded leopards are not particular about whom they attack, and I did not want to put the members of my hunting team in jeopardy because I flubbed a shot.

When the time came, I was sitting in a blind with my gun bearer and the PH's gun bearer, both armed with 12 gauge shotguns loaded with buck shot. I had my Krieghoff Teck O/U double rifle in .375 H&H beside me. The two Africans were looking out the shooting port in the side of the blind. I was not, since a white face in the hole was a dead giveaway as to what was planned.

When the time came, I assumed a firing position behing my rifle and observed the leopard stretched out on the limb from which the bait was suspended. His back was exposed and for reasons I am unable to recall, I aimed directly between the shoulder blades. The shot broke cleanly, but the leopard seemed to ignore it. As far as I could see, he hadn't moved a muscle. My follow up shot produced the same results.

"Bas", said the PH's gun bearer, "It is over." "Piga, kufa" "You hit him, he's dead." I was still unconvenced, but I quickly reloaded and left the blind with the two of them carrying their shotguns. As we approached the bait tree, suddenly the leopard's hind quarters fell from the tree, and he was left suspended over a smaller branch. One of the gun bearers had to climb the tree to dislodge him.

The first shot had evidently hit the spine and the second was only a fraction of an inch away from the first. The gun bearer's evaluation was completely vindicated and I could secretly utter a sigh of relief.

A smaller caliber rifle would have produced the same results, but I had no way of knowing that I would have such perfect circumstances for aiming. The choice was between my .300 H&H and my .375 H&H and I was completely satisfied with my choice.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I was more concerned about my own performance on a leopard than I was with elephant, rhino, buffalo and lion, the reason being that wounded leopards are not particular about whom they attack, and I did not want to put the members of my hunting team in jeopardy because I flubbed a shot.

Not one of those critters is "particular" about whom they choose to stomp, bite or gore when wounded. They are more than happy to share with multiples as well.

 

[xausa]

Not one of those critters is "particular" about whom they choose to stomp, bite or gore when wounded. They are more than happy to share with multiples as well.

Too true, but none of those animals can hide behind a small bush until the victim is practically on top of them and none seem interested in attacking multiple victims. From what I have read about wounded leopard attacks, they like to spread their anger around to as many victims as possible, rather than concentrating on one.