Bullets do some weird things!

[Peter Larsson]

I read some where that if Barnes tsx bullets were instabile,
for example after hitting a branch,it will not expand at all.
Don't know if that is true but it could explain some error with
bullets that don't expand.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I read some where that if Barnes tsx bullets were instabile,
for example after hitting a branch,it will not expand at all.
Don't know if that is true but it could explain some error with
bullets that don't expand.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. If the bullet is unstable, it means it's wobbling. If it's wobbling then it's possible for the side of the nose versus in the center to contact first. This could cause the nose to close up a bit and when the center does make contact it's now compromised and won't open.

Now that instability could indeed be caused by a branch or hitting something else before hitting the animal. But it could also come from the fact that a Barnes bullet of a given weight will be longer than another lead bullet of the same weight. This increased length from what I read means that the Barnes is more likely to be unstable and is one reason why some choose to go with a lighter for caliber bullet weight when using the Barnes bullets.

 

[Peter Larsson]

Don't know if the TTSX would work better.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

North Fork actually told me i would easily get more velocity with their bullet then i could get with the Barnes. they said their 370gr bullet could do 2650fps (same speed as my 300gr Barnes) on a max load.

i ordered a box of 50 of the 325gr bullets and will begin testing once they arrive. if i can get at least 2650fps with good accuracy then ill be happy.

-matt

Matt85, North Fork may have told you this, but it doesn't sound right. A 370gr bullet is 23.3% heavier than a 300 gr bullet.
they said their 370gr bullet could do 2650fps (same speed as my 300gr Barnes) on a max load.

 

[matt85]

your welcome to call BS on what ever you like. im not NF representative and dont care.

-matt

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Matt85,

If I offended you, I am sorry as that was not my intent. What I was trying to do, in a friendly and what I thought was a humorous way, was to point out some of the outrageous claims manufactures, marketing reps, etc will make on their products. When some of those claims get repeated on blogs, websites, etc, they get treated as gospel. I think one of the reasons hunters like us read and participate on this website is to learn from each other. Basic knowledge of ballistics and reloading tells me that for the same caliber of cartridge, a significantly heavier bullet, regardless of make, will not travel as fast as a lighter bullet when using the same powder load. Also, the max load for the heavier bullet is likely to be less than the max load for a lighter bullet, as the heavier bullet will take up more space in the casing and leave less space for powder. If my logic is unsound, I am open to rebuttal.

Dave

 

[matt85]

im not offended, I just have no reason to doubt their claims. others who have used North Fork bullet have told me they often achieve higher velocities with the same loads. but I have limited first hand experience so I cant say if its true or false. I suppose ill find out when the 325gr .416" bullets I ordered come in. NF has provided me a little load data which should get the ball rolling on a proper hunting load.

for kicks I can also try the same load I was using with the 300gr Barnes and see if the velocity is much higher.

-matt

 

[elmerfudd555]

Here it is. 500gr shot out my .470, on the left. Hit shoulder bone of a buffalo bull, penetration was maybe 40cm. This shot was supposed to put it down, it didn't and ended up with a second shot at my feet with a Dzombo solid.View attachment 48570

What doesn't make sense here is the 40cm of penetration. If the bullet failed to expand....and from your photo it looks like it started but didn't finish, then you would expect it to pencil on through like a solid. Especially with that caliber, weight and muzzle velocity. The only conclusion I can draw is that either the velocity was WAY down on that particular load, (bad round?) or an obstruction that vacuumed up the velocity was hit first. Glad u are here to talk about it!

I used the 300grn TSX in my 375 H&H for lion and buff in 2013 and both recovered bullets looked like the catalog photos. Buff broke right shoulder and recovered in the offside hide. 55 yard shot. Lion, facing me quartering at 40 yd. Bullet back by pelvis. Now 2 animals don't prove spit about anything. I shot my zebra at 150 with the 115 partition out of a 257 Roy. Bullet exited, looked like it didn't expand at all, tiny little exit hole, but he dropped and the innards were a mess. Wife sacked her Kudu and Gemsbok with 130 Hornady IBs out of a 270 win and both recovered bullets again looked like textbook mushrooms. IBs have never failed me but don't shoot as well for me as the Barnes product so Ive been switching over almost totally to them.

I have had great luck with Barnes TSX and TTSX on everything from large black bears and pigs to pronghorns. I have very few recovered bullets to examine and if I do my part the critters hit the deck. I will say that I am concerned a bit about the new LRX though. My bull elk last Oct just didn't exhibit much internal damage despite being hit 2x in the boiler room with the new 175s out of a 300 mag. Yes he died! Very weird. But one animal tells us nothing. We will see what happens this season. I need a few more examples to start drawing conclusions.

 

[HeinrichH]

What doesn't make sense here is the 40cm of penetration. If the bullet failed to expand....and from your photo it looks like it started but didn't finish, then you would expect it to pencil on through like a solid. Especially with that caliber, weight and muzzle velocity. The only conclusion I can draw is that either the velocity was WAY down on that particular load, (bad round?) or an obstruction that vacuumed up the velocity was hit first. Glad u are here to talk about it!

I used the 300grn TSX in my 375 H&H for lion and buff in 2013 and both recovered bullets looked like the catalog photos. Buff broke right shoulder and recovered in the offside hide. 55 yard shot. Lion, facing me quartering at 40 yd. Bullet back by pelvis. Now 2 animals don't prove spit about anything. I shot my zebra at 150 with the 115 partition out of a 257 Roy. Bullet exited, looked like it didn't expand at all, tiny little exit hole, but he dropped and the innards were a mess. Wife sacked her Kudu and Gemsbok with 130 Hornady IBs out of a 270 win and both recovered bullets again looked like textbook mushrooms. IBs have never failed me but don't shoot as well for me as the Barnes product so Ive been switching over almost totally to them.

I have had great luck with Barnes TSX and TTSX on everything from large black bears and pigs to pronghorns. I have very few recovered bullets to examine and if I do my part the critters hit the deck. I will say that I am concerned a bit about the new LRX though. My bull elk last Oct just didn't exhibit much internal damage despite being hit 2x in the boiler room with the new 175s out of a 300 mag. Yes he died! Very weird. But one animal tells us nothing. We will see what happens this season. I need a few more examples to start drawing conclusions.

Yes thats true, I agree. Should have passed straight through but didn't. It could have been a faulty load yes. It was factory loaded box of Barnes a client left me, not hand loaded though..

 

[matt85]

if the bullet tumbled on impact i could see penetration being very bad. something to consider is that solid copper bullets are much longer then normal bullets and some rifling might have trouble stabilizing the bullet properly. if the Barnes bullet were to wobble in the air before impact i could see it failing to open.

i just received a package today with a new type of bullet. this is the Peregrine VRG2 Bushmaster which in my case are in the form of 600gr .505" bullets for the Gibbs. the VRG2 is a monometal bullet that attempts to address the shortcomings of the standard monometal HP bullets. instead of an open hollow nose this bullet has a metal plunger fit into the large HP cavity. this in theory gets rid of the possibility of debris filling the HP cavity causing failure.