Bullets do some weird things!

[stug]

I'm pretty amazed you recovered that bullet matt85, was it a broadside shot or angling?

 

[gordon-kruger]

My experience is that Hornady IB and IL shooting excellent small groups in most rifle on paper, on the other hand if the IB do not hitting bones it will not expand... I don't know but turn it back and forward for PG in most calibers my personal opinion is that it will be very hard to beat a Nosler Partition, its shooting good in most rifles and it is a classic bullet with long history, excellent chock effect and enough penetration on most PG up to Eland if you go 1" behind the shoulder, furthermore I'm allergic to expanding copper bullets.. but that' after some years with lost and wounded game because of the Barnes-X bullet.. Perhaps Barnes make those copper bullets better today, but I'm a bit old fashioned chap and don't trust this kind of bullets....

 

[matt85]

I'm pretty amazed you recovered that bullet matt85, was it a broadside shot or angling?

the animal was quartering to me very sharply, almost facing me. i wasnt there when they pulled the bullet out but my guess is they found it in the rear of the animal. in all other animals shot with this load the bullet passed completely threw the animal length wise and killed them very quickly (in some cases instantly).

-matt

 

[Nyati]

I also prefer the swift AFrames for my .338WM.

By the way, an excellent fallow deer !

 

[lcq]

I used swift a-frames 160gr 3000fps in my 7mm mag. The only bullet was recovered from the wildebeest and it lost 30% of its weight and looked much

View attachment 43434 View attachment 43435 On my recent trip to New Zealand I was once again disappointed by the over expansion and lack of penetration on my red stag by the Hornady IB bullets. I was using 225 gr. .338 cal. IB's in my .338 WM with a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. I shot my stag at just over 400 yd. so the velocity would have been reduced quite a bit, down to a point that I wouldn't have thought that they have blown up.
But anyway after being frustrated with those bullets I switched to my back ups, which were Swift Scirroco II's in 210 gr. I hadn't planned on shooting a Fallow buck, but it is funny how plans change when the opportunity arises. Long story short I found myself watching a real nice buck making his way through the scrub brush and making really good use of the available cover. Eventually he bedded down in a nice thick patch of thorny bushes, we laid and watched him for a while, all we could really make out were his antlers and the top of his head. He looked pretty comfortable and we figured that he wasn't going to be moving any time soon, so we inched our way uphill a bit to see if we could get a better view. After moving uphill a little bit we could now make out the outline of his body through the brush. I was in a prone position slightly ahead of Jim my guide when he says see that branch to the left of his head with a y in it? And he continues with, it's 250 yards to him from here, do you think that you can put a bullet under that branch and hit him in the base of the neck? Well I like a good challenge so I say yeah, maybe. And I also said some thing like at least even if I blow the shot he will certainly stand up. After focusing on that small opening under that branch through my scope I realized that it wasn't that open but covered by smaller branches. I figured that if I did hit some of that small vegetation that it wouldn't disrupt my bullet path all that much seeing how close it was to my target. So since my rifle was zeroed at 250 yd. I held right on where I wanted my bullet to go and squeezed the trigger. At the crack of the rifle that old buck jumped up and took off going downhill, my first thought was that I had blown it. After slamming the bolt on another round I realized that he wasn't running quite right, both of his front legs were broken between the hoof and elbow and blood was every where. He only ran a short distance and went down out of sight in some brushy cover. Jim shakes my hand and says, you go down and make sure he's down to stay and I'll go fetch the truck. When I got to him he was stone dead and I could not figure out exactly why. I rolled him over and found a gapping hole in his brisket so I now knew why he expired so quickly, but what I couldn't figure out was how that hole got there. And to further the mystery when we skinned him out we found the bullet lodged up in his left shoulder. So what I can't explain is how did that bullet shatter both of his front legs, penetrate the brisket and wind up in his off side shoulder? Especially when he was bedded down slightly below me and my shot angle was downhill on him. The only thing that I can come up with is that his legs were folded in front of him and my shot was a little low hitting his legs and then being deflected upward and into his chest. I saved the bullet, it started out at 210 gr. and now is down to 157.7 gr., it mushroomed perfectly and did a lot of damage. Here's a couple of pictures of it. If someone has a better explanation of how that bullet did all of the damage that it did and wound up where it did please share it with me.

I used swift a-frames 160gr 3000fps in my 7mm mag. The only bullet recovered was from the wildebeest and it lost 30% of its weight and looked much like your interbond. Nosler accubonds and partitions perform similarly. If you want virtually 100% retention go solid copper. The following link is informative

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/

 

[matt85]

I used swift a-frames 160gr 3000fps in my 7mm mag. The only bullet recovered was from the wildebeest and it lost 30% of its weight and looked much like your interbond. Nosler accubonds and partitions perform similarly. If you want virtually 100% retention go solid copper. The following link is informative

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/

you must have been very close to get a Swift A-frame to lose 30% of its weight!

ill agree, if you truly want the most weight retention regardless of velocity then the mono-metal bullet is the best choice. even the best lead bullet will shed some weight when the impact velocity is overly extreme.

-matt

 

[Ryno Botma]

Hi guys I Java also had one insident with hornady 270 gr .375 on a blesbuck hit it on the shoulder flat broadside shot and bullet diverted up trough the neck

Same bullets same gun later in the hunt shot trough kudu and wildebeest on the shoulder broadside so I don't know what happened on the blesbuck

I shoot the TTSX in all my guns when hunting but found the nosler accubond give me better groups on pepper

Keep well

 

[lcq]

you must have been very close to get a Swift A-frame to lose 30% of its weight!

ill agree, if you truly want the most weight retention regardless of velocity then the mono-metal bullet is the best choice. even the best lead bullet will shed some weight when the impact velocity is overly extreme.

-matt

Hey it punched right through a very large zebra at about 100M, the wildebeest was almost 150M.

 

[Mike B.]

I can attest to the bullets do weird things. I just got back from a pronghorn hunt in Wyoming. These bullets were out of a 7mm Weatherby Mag, 120gr ttsx factory loads. The first shot was at 320 yards. The first bullet failed to open. I have no explanation at all and how it happened but it was shot broadside at the antelope hitting the opposite side leg at the upper most joint below the shoulder, the part that can hang down just below the body depending on how it's standing or moving. It did not exit the leg, but it broke that leg severely. I did not see any blood to indicate that it went through the body first and then into the leg but when he was hit, we actually thought he was going to fall over right there like it did go through. I honestly did not put a ton of effort into looking because once he kept moving I knew it wasn't a good hit. The bullet fell out of the leg as I was skinning it to get it into the cooler.

The second shot was after the pronghorn bedded down and when I snuck up onto him, he was facing directly away from me. I was in an elevated position at the end of a finger overlooking a valley. My only option without spooking him and having a long chase was to take the 100 yard shot from above him through the upper left part of the butt. The bullet was found in the front right shoulder just under the skin. Second shot killed him quickly and the bullet performed flawlessly.

I really wish I could explain the first shot but I can't. It's got me baffled. I cannot believe it would not go right through that leg bone of a pronghorn. They aren't that big of animals. Ultimately I killed it, but the questions about the bullet really make me wonder. Maybe I was so far off that it ricochet off something into the leg? If not, and it couldn't go through that bone, what would it have done if it hit the shoulder? I have no idea if I will use the remaining rounds I have left on any animal.

 

[matt85]

@Mike B. did you send those pictures to Barnes? if not im sure they would greatly appreciate it.

thats the second time ive seen the new Barnes bullets fail. first time was shown to me by @THIS IS AFRICA SAFARIS in SA. it makes me question whether i should keep using the 300gr TSX in my 416. not too many options in the 300gr range for the 416 though.

-matt

 

[ack]

We used Swift Scirroco on recent Africa trip..Every recovered bullet looked just like Swift's ad chart..I have always looked at bullet recovery and am now sold on these for everything we hunt.I found them to be very accurate in a Tika and Weatherby..Both are 30/06 ,180 gr..Most consistent I have ever used..Rem.factory loads..

 

[matt85]

i suppose i could try NorthFork's 325gr SS bullet in my 416 RM to replace the 300gr Barnes TSX. i just wish someone would make a nice 300gr bonded lead bullet in .416". the 416 is very underated as PG caliber and will put critters down with authority.

-matt

 

[bassasdaindia]

the animal was quartering to me very sharply, almost facing me. i wasnt there when they pulled the bullet out but my guess is they found it in the rear of the animal. in all other animals shot with this load the bullet passed completely threw the animal length wise and killed them very quickly (in some cases instantly).

-matt

i keep telling you how tough the Blue Wilderbeest are

 

[HeinrichH]

@Mike B. did you send those pictures to Barnes? if not im sure they would greatly appreciate it.

thats the second time ive seen the new Barnes bullets fail. first time was shown to me by @THIS IS AFRICA SAFARIS in SA. it makes me question whether i should keep using the 300gr TSX in my 416. not too many options in the 300gr range for the 416 though.

-matt

Here it is. 500gr shot out my .470, on the left. Hit shoulder bone of a buffalo bull, penetration was maybe 40cm. This shot was supposed to put it down, it didn't and ended up with a second shot at my feet with a Dzombo solid.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Wish I could say these TSX/TTSX bullets that did not expand properly were the first I've seen, but it's not. No doubt when they perform correctly they're absolutely deadly, but this is just a few times too many I've seen these types of results.

 

[JimP]

I was wondering how you recover Barnes bullets after shooting a animal. On my safari I shot 6 animals with the ranges anywhere from 90 yards on a impala out to 379 on my kudu and all were complete pass troughs. On my second black wildebeest I actually went through both front shoulders and had bone pocking out of the off side. Even the rocky mountain elk that I have shot I have never recovered a Barnes bullet, perhaps that is because of the 340 Weatherby shooting 225 grain bullets but you would think that on larger animals at the longer ranges that one or two would show up.

I know on the older Barnes X bullets that there were reports of them not opening up and just punching a caliber specific hole through the animal so I am not sure on it. I would defiantly contact Barnes about it and see what they have to say.

 

[HeinrichH]

I've been a Barnes guy all my life, untill this happened, almost cost me my life due to the fact that I trusted barnes. I stopped using them now, changed to Swift A frame.

Its saddens me to say i would probably not use barnes again in my big calibers, it was only once that this had happened to me though. But once is more than enough on dangerous game.

 

[matt85]

I've been a Barnes guy all my life, untill this happened, almost cost me my life due to the fact that I trusted barnes. I stopped using them now, changed to Swift A frame.

Its saddens me to say i would probably not use barnes again in my big calibers, it was only once that this had happened to me though. But once is more than enough on dangerous game.

seeing your bullet has inspired me to try changing from the 300gr Barnes to the 325gr North Fork in my 416 RM. its a shame because the 300gr Barnes was absolutely lethal, but i cant afford for even a single bullet to fail.

-matt

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

seeing your bullet has inspired me to try changing from the 300gr Barnes to the 325gr North Fork in my 416 RM. its a shame because the 300gr Barnes was absolutely lethal, but i cant afford for even a single bullet to fail.

-matt

You just might end up getting close to the same velocity with the NF's as you did the Barnes. I find the NF's take a bit less powder to obtain the same velocity as other bullets of the same weight. I can only attribute this to the grooves in the bullet resulting in less friction between the bullet and the case neck.

 

[matt85]

You just might end up getting close to the same velocity with the NF's as you did the Barnes. I find the NF's take a bit less powder to obtain the same velocity as other bullets of the same weight. I can only attribute this to the grooves in the bullet resulting in less friction between the bullet and the case neck.

North Fork actually told me i would easily get more velocity with their bullet then i could get with the Barnes. they said their 370gr bullet could do 2650fps (same speed as my 300gr Barnes) on a max load.

i ordered a box of 50 of the 325gr bullets and will begin testing once they arrive. if i can get at least 2650fps with good accuracy then ill be happy.

-matt