Boeing Aircraft

[Sketchy1973]

I work for Boeing up here in Wa State, and am currently in the 737 program. The FAA is in the house looking up everyones asses, as the should.

We need to do some serious soul searching. Come Sept, we union members, will most likely go on strike. One of our demands is that we get a seat on the board. Ya see, a lot of the problems that are being discovered by FAA, hourly employees warned the company about for years. But, when you have board members that have never bucked a rivet, you are going to have problems.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I work for Boeing up here in Wa State, and am currently in the 737 program. The FAA is in the house looking up everyones asses, as the should.

We need to do some serious soul searching. Come Sept, we union members, will most likely go on strike. One of our demands is that we get a seat on the board. Ya see, a lot of the problems that are being discovered by FAA, hourly employees warned the company about for years. But, when you have board members that have never bucked a rivet, you are going to have problems.

And engineers who never flew an airplane.

 

[Sketchy1973]

And engineers who never flew an airplane.

Lol, you must work there too?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Lol, you must work there too?

No, the Big Three, where those engineers went to the same schools and never changed the oil & filter in an automobile.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

I have been in aviation maintenance for 40 years now, organizational, intermediate, and depot, along with prototyping. I have always been amazed how many engineers there are who have never TOUCHED an aircraft. I am under the belief that most of the problems we are having with Beoing is maintenance and poor training coupled with a corporate culture that values DEI more than actual qualifications.

 

[RETD16]

So you read minds now?

I fly up front about 4 flights a week. I know what we talk about. I’ve got 3M miles on both United and American, each.

And no US pilot solved the problem in the simulator. Despite being given more altitude and less speed to begin with. The ones that stuck to the manual all crashed. The only demonstrated recovery was to let go of the yoke completely and try crank the trim ring over and over doing roller coaster. Boeing doesn’t train MAX pilots on that anymore.

And now they have refused to release records, video or technicians on the plug door case. That no one died is the miracle.

I know exactly what racist means. Many pilots have objected about the NTSB report. They’re just as political as any agency in DC. To think otherwise is delusional.

By all means buy on the dip. The feds will prop Boeing up for many reasons, not least of which to keep a lid on the black programs they operate. And an attempt to save face. But there’s much more downward potential and a near term short is the better play

Negative, I have trained the exact scenarios that crashed both those jets. I’ve never crashed!!! We have a dedicated memory procedure for this MCAS event. If you do the memory procedure promptly, it’s really not a big deal. It sucks because it’s all manual trim, but it is manageable.

As for foreign pilots not being able to handle this emergency effectively being racist. Foreign pilots are at decided disadvantage regarding experience and training. U.S. Pilots are vastly better trained and and on average have MUCH more experience at the Major Airline level.

 

[Brent in Az]

An article I read about the 737 max situation, is that the MCAS was installed in the plane and the pilots didn't know about it, because it was basically operating in the background.
The MCAS is triggered by an angle of attack sensor, and supposedly disengaged the auto pilot. Faulty reading by the sensor were also blamed.
Now you have an airplane that disengages the autopilot, while MCAS is trying to correct the attitude of the plane, with foreign pilots freaking out because they don't know what's happening.
Recipe for disaster.
Did Boeing release any flight operation technical bulletin on the MCAS?

 

[RETD16]

An article I read about the 737 max situation, is that the MCAS was installed in the plane and the pilots didn't know about it, because it was basically operating in the background.
The MCAS is triggered by an angle of attack sensor, and supposedly disengaged the auto pilot. Faulty reading by the sensor were also blamed.
Now you have an airplane that disengages the autopilot, while MCAS is trying to correct the attitude of the plane, with foreign pilots freaking out because they don't know what's happening.
Recipe for disaster.
Did Boeing release any flight operation technical bulletin on the MCAS?

Yes, that is exactly what happened. What exacerbated the situation was that the MCAS was based off of a single sensor too. It wasn’t a redundant system. EVERYTHING in transport category airplanes has at least one redundant system. Large widebody airplanes have multiple redundant systems for every specific system (i.e. hydraulic, electrical, engine, etc.).

The disengagement of an auto pilot shouldn’t have that much of a startle factor. That is where experience and training come in. Also, hand flying skills which is a particular emphasis right now from the FAA. Less reliance upon auto pilots and being able to maneuver the airplane my manipulating the controls.

In one of the accidents, they were able to temporarily control the aircraft again because they shut off the electrical trim system. But for some reason they reengaged the electrical trim close to the ground and subsequently crashed. Again, this is where experience and training comes into play.

 

[Brent in Az]

Only a matter of time before one falls out of the sky.

Southwest Airlines flight makes emergency landing in Denver after engine part falls off Boeing 737 plane

A Southwest flight from Denver made an emergency landing after experiencing a "mechanical issue" during takeoff Sunday morning, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[JimP]

Most of what I have seen isn’t Boeing's problem but piss poor maintenance.

The Southwest experience the other day is a example of a worker not checking the fasteners.

 

[Daniel Cary]

What a shame a another American company ruined by corporate greed,their B17 & B29 saved the world in WW2, i have been to the Boeing factory twice & was in awe of its size seen 747 & 777 being built lets hope they can get their act together or the Europeans will have the market all to them self. its a wonder the Chinese don't get in to the business, but i would not fly in one.

@Red Leg @rdog etc.
The B-17 "I hope anyone can find interest/appreciate this remarkable Documentary"
Insanity of WWII Cont. Bomb Runs.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Between DEI, cost, preventative maintenance, quality control .. If you knew, Federally what they let allow to pass/push in Transportation ...

May be preaching to the choir.

 

[fourfive8]

@Red Leg @rdog etc.
The B-17 "I hope anyone can find interest/appreciate this remarkable Documentary"
Insanity of WWII Cont. Bomb Runs.

Yes, I can appreciate it with some connection! I had three relatives, all pilots, flying bombers in WWII. I had an uncle shot down and killed flying a B17 over Germany. I had an uncle shot down but survived and escaped back to friendly territory flying a B25. My dad first trained flying a B17 but ended up in a B29. He always spoke highly of the B17 and said the B29 seemed prone to nagging problems as it may have been built a little before its time.

Just the other day I was perusing some B29 photos that showed some with quite bit of damage yet making it back to base after the run. The B17 is known for taking huge damage yet still being able to make it back.

Pic of my dad's B29-A and crew. Note the black, night raid paint on bottom

 

[Daniel Cary]

Yes, I can appreciate it with some connection! I had three relatives, all pilots, flying bombers in WWII. I had an uncle shot down and killed flying a B17 over Germany. I had an uncle shot down but survived and escaped back to friendly territory flying a B25. My dad first trained flying a B17 but ended up in a B29. He always spoke highly of the B17 and said the B29 seemed prone to nagging problems as it may have been built a little before its time.

Just the other day I was perusing some B29 photos that showed some with quite bit of damage yet making it back to base after the run. The B17 is known for taking huge damage yet still being able to make it back.

Pic of my dad's B29-A and crew. Note the black, night raid paint on bottom
View attachment 598550

What an iconic photo and piece of history, Thank you!. The endurance, relentlessness & limitations were profoundly portrayed.

I was a teenager when "Nova" found a Superfortress in the Arctic. They managed to fully restore it on site, devastating ending.

 

[Challer]

Negative, I have trained the exact scenarios that crashed both those jets. I’ve never crashed!!! We have a dedicated memory procedure for this MCAS event. If you do the memory procedure promptly, it’s really not a big deal. It sucks because it’s all manual trim, but it is manageable.

As for foreign pilots not being able to handle this emergency effectively being racist. Foreign pilots are at decided disadvantage regarding experience and training. U.S. Pilots are vastly better trained and and on average have MUCH more experience at the Major Airline level.

I don’t recall all your warnings when the forums discuss using foreign airlines - Ethiad, Qatar, etc when flying with guns. Shouldn’t you post a warning? I mean they are seriously disadvantaged pilots in training and experience.

Sorry chief, didn’t happen according to the FAA and NTSB.

Best pilots have always been fighter jocks. US system doesn’t really support that model any more. Many foreign countries do.

While I’m not a commercial pilot, I am a pilot.

 

[Brent in Az]

Air Canada pilots land a Boeing 737 in Idaho after another in-flight emergency

Pilots diverted the plane after a warning light in the flight deck, authorities said.

fortune.com

 

[Challer]

Air Canada pilots land a Boeing 737 in Idaho after another in-flight emergency

Pilots diverted the plane after a warning light in the flight deck, authorities said.

fortune.com

The MCAS system does not appear to be mentioned unless I missed it.

 

[Brent in Az]

The MCAS system does not appear to be mentioned unless I missed it.

The article has nothing to do with MCAS. It's just another instance of an emergency landing, which is happening all too frequently these days

 

[Challer]

Thank you. Mis read it. Ironically getting on first of two flights today. CLT thennYYZ

 

[Red Leg]

Between DEI, cost, preventative maintenance, quality control .. If you knew, Federally what they let allow to pass/push in Transportation ...

May be preaching to the choir.

Little known fact. The Eighth Air Force, tasked with the daylight strategic precision bombardment of the Reich, suffered more fatalities (26K+ both KIA and accidents) than the whole Marine Corps during WWII. The 100th Group, one of the first bomb groups (37 total crews) sent to Britain in 1943 and subject of the new "Masters of the Air" mini-series (well worth watching), suffered particularly grievous losses. A WWII B-17 Bomb Group was built around 12 aircraft and 370 aircrew (allowed crew rotation). From its arrival in late '43 until the end of the war, the 100th lost 177 aircraft - each of those with a ten-man crew. That represented a 400 percent casualty rate (KIA, WIA, MIA, and captured). Of the original 37 crews, 35 were lost.

One would not think so, but the big Boeing B-17 was a brutally strong aircraft. Had it not been, the Luftwaffe would have stopped the daylight bombing offensive in its tracks.

Luftwaffe gun camera footage from WWII against B-24 and B-17 bombers.