Blaser R8 for Dangerous Game

[nomspc]

I’m just back from South Africa where I used an R8 in .375 to take 7 animals including 2 buffalo. The 350 grain Woodleigh Weldcore HD loaded to 2300 fps hits hard, penetrates well and kills quickly. Both buffalo visibly reacted to the shot and went down quickly. Kevin Robertson says this bullet hits like a .416 and I don’t doubt it. Both my PH’s loved the R8 ergos and accuracy, both shot it at the range. The reason they want one as a camp gun, though, is the safety; round in the chamber, bolt and trigger locked, striker disengaged, quick into action.

 

[BeeMaa]

I’m just back from South Africa where I used an R8 in .375 to take 7 animals including 2 buffalo. The 350 grain Woodleigh Weldcore HD loaded to 2300 fps hits hard, penetrates well and kills quickly. Both buffalo visibly reacted to the shot and went down quickly. Kevin Robertson says this bullet hits like a .416 and I don’t doubt it. Both my PH’s loved the R8 ergos and accuracy, both shot it at the range. The reason they want one as a camp gun, though, is the safety; round in the chamber, bolt and trigger locked, striker disengaged, quick into action.

Congratulations on a successful Safari.

Like to see the recovered bullets if they were found, along with pics of the Buffalo. Maybe you could post them in the bullet performance database as well.

 

[nomspc]

Congratulations on a successful Safari.

Like to see the recovered bullets if they were found, along with pics of the Buffalo. Maybe you could post them in the bullet performance database as well.

Scroll down on this one:

Bullet Performance Database

400 grain Nosler Partition out of a 416 RM at about 2400 fps MV. Recovered from a cape buffalo on recent trip to Limpopo SA. Buff was about 65 yards, quartering away. Aimed at off-side shoulder, where bullet was found (in shoulder, not through it). One shot, buff was down with 75 yards...

www.africahunting.com

SOUTH AFRICA: Hunting The Far North With Stanley Pieterse Safaris

Back in 2019, my hunting partner Ross and I got serious about a trip to South Africa for Cape buffalo. I had been to Namibia in 2012 for PG, while this was his first African trip. We researched many outfitters, looking primarily at smaller operations where we would be the only hunters in camp...

www.africahunting.com

 

[Challer]

With the bolt closed on an R8 tap the bolt knob from the barrel end. It can dislodge enuogh not to go off in a DG situation. So if you are stalking in thick brush or you fall and your bolt is tapped i.e it hits something like a branch, that could render the rifle unusable in a hairy situation. An R8 is not a dg rifle. Excellent for everything else. Dont believe me... try it with your blaser and an empty chamber.

How many names do you have here? You bring this up over and over and yet have no experience with the gun. Any three position safety M98 type rifle can also have the bolt taken out of battery in position 2 or 3. But not in position 1. Same for Blaser. One in the chamber with the gun decocted and it won't go out of battery and is completely safe. It's a simple matter to cock the gun via the safety at least as quick as any Mauser.

 

[rookhawk]

How many names do you have here? You bring this up over and over and yet have no experience with the gun. Any three position safety M98 type rifle can also have the bolt taken out of battery in position 2 or 3. But not in position 1. Same for Blaser. One in the chamber with the gun decocted and it won't go out of battery and is completely safe. It's a simple matter to cock the gun via the safety at least as quick as any Mauser.

All of these arguments are sort of unsolvable dilemmas.

Yes, R8s and SR30s can have their bolts bumped and then they don't go off. Bad. So instead you buy a Mauser with a three position safety. Those can get bumped too, so you throw that away and get a custom $20,000 mauser or a double rifle with a tang safety. Yeah, but the tang safety doesn't have an intercepting safety sear so any bump can result in the gun going off even on safe, so then you throw that away and buy a Krieghoff that cocks by pushing the tang safety forward, truly the safest in the world....but you throw that away because it takes too much energy to cock with your thumb during a charge.

There is no magical system. Every system above has a flaw in either safety or function. Some fail by become operable (firing unexpectedly) some become inoperable if bumped (decocking).

People more affluent than all of us combined with access to the finest gunsmiths and gun makers that ever lived and ever will live poured over these concerns. Their solution was pretty simple: Side by Side double rifle with a tang safety and two mechanical triggers is the fastest shooting, most reliable dangerous game weapon that can be made. They accepted the risk that the safety is not as reliable as an intercepting sear design or a disengage-from-battery design.

Would I discount an R8 or SR30 from dangerous game use because of how they work? No. Would I want to use a largebore straight pull rifle on dangerous game at close ranges as a preference over a double rifle? No.

But it is preferences. Debating this becomes circular logic because the objections suggest an alternative that has its own set of problems and round and round we go.

 

[Tanks]

...

People more affluent than all of us combined with access to the finest gunsmiths and gun makers that ever lived and ever will live poured over these concerns. Their solution was pretty simple: Side by Side double rifle with a tang safety and two mechanical triggers is the fastest shooting, most reliable dangerous game weapon that can be made. They accepted the risk that the safety is not as reliable as an intercepting sear design or a disengage-from-battery design.
...

I am not familiar with the real pricey doubles like Wesley Richards, H&H et al, but Heym does have intercepting sears in their doubles.

 

[rookhawk]

I am not familiar with the real pricey doubles like Wesley Richards, H&H et al, but Heym does have intercepting sears in their doubles.

View attachment 428699

That's true with some of theirs. My 470 has it. But in theory, even they can be overcome by jarring, or they can fail so that as the safety is taken off, the gun goes off. My son's heym is an O/U small bore that has a different system, it cocks by pushing the tang safety forward. It's definitely the safest way to go...it's also the slowest way to go. I'd never go for it on a dangerous game rifle.

 

[sureshot375]

All of these arguments are sort of unsolvable dilemmas.

Yes, R8s and SR30s can have their bolts bumped and then they don't go off. Bad. So instead you buy a Mauser with a three position safety. Those can get bumped too, so you throw that away and get a custom $20,000 mauser or a double rifle with a tang safety. Yeah, but the tang safety doesn't have an intercepting safety sear so any bump can result in the gun going off even on safe, so then you throw that away and buy a Krieghoff that cocks by pushing the tang safety forward, truly the safest in the world....but you throw that away because it takes too much energy to cock with your thumb during a charge.

There is no magical system. Every system above has a flaw in either safety or function. Some fail by become operable (firing unexpectedly) some become inoperable if bumped (decocking).

People more affluent than all of us combined with access to the finest gunsmiths and gun makers that ever lived and ever will live poured over these concerns. Their solution was pretty simple: Side by Side double rifle with a tang safety and two mechanical triggers is the fastest shooting, most reliable dangerous game weapon that can be made. They accepted the risk that the safety is not as reliable as an intercepting sear design or a disengage-from-battery design.

Would I discount an R8 or SR30 from dangerous game use because of how they work? No. Would I want to use a largebore straight pull rifle on dangerous game at close ranges as a preference over a double rifle? No.

But it is preferences. Debating this becomes circular logic because the objections suggest an alternative that has its own set of problems and round and round we go.

Get out of here with your reasonable arguments. This is the Internet. We are here to argue with strangers, not reach logical conclusions!!! Lol.

Gun enthusiasts get in to all these arguments about the nuances of gun design, but at the end of the day all that matters is that you get a gun that is reliable and that you can shoot and manipulate reliably.

I have a Remington 700 KS in 375. My dad hunted with it, I’ve hunted with it extensively, our friends have borrowed it for safaris. It has killed an elephant, 10+ Buffalo, 2 leopards, at least 4 lions, Kodiak brown bear, 2 crocs, at least 4 hippos, and close to 100 plains game animals. I used it to stop a full on wounded Buffalo charge, PH never shot.

However, the gun has design flaws like push feed, which according to the Internet, make it a terrible choice for dangerous game. All these preferences and opinions regarding gun design come way down at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. If you are using a bolt action keep the bolt closed when it’s supposed to be closed. Whatever you use, shoot it enough to be able to operate the safety instinctively, and for gods sake keep the rifle pointed in a safe direction.

I would probably starve to death if I was a gun writer.

 

[rookhawk]

I would probably starve to death if I was a gun writer.

That's pretty damned funny. You won the internet today.

 

[Red Leg]

All of these arguments are sort of unsolvable dilemmas.

Yes, R8s and SR30s can have their bolts bumped and then they don't go off. Bad. So instead you buy a Mauser with a three position safety. Those can get bumped too, so you throw that away and get a custom $20,000 mauser or a double rifle with a tang safety. Yeah, but the tang safety doesn't have an intercepting safety sear so any bump can result in the gun going off even on safe, so then you throw that away and buy a Krieghoff that cocks by pushing the tang safety forward, truly the safest in the world....but you throw that away because it takes too much energy to cock with your thumb during a charge.

There is no magical system. Every system above has a flaw in either safety or function. Some fail by become operable (firing unexpectedly) some become inoperable if bumped (decocking).

People more affluent than all of us combined with access to the finest gunsmiths and gun makers that ever lived and ever will live poured over these concerns. Their solution was pretty simple: Side by Side double rifle with a tang safety and two mechanical triggers is the fastest shooting, most reliable dangerous game weapon that can be made. They accepted the risk that the safety is not as reliable as an intercepting sear design or a disengage-from-battery design.

Would I discount an R8 or SR30 from dangerous game use because of how they work? No. Would I want to use a largebore straight pull rifle on dangerous game at close ranges as a preference over a double rifle? No.

But it is preferences. Debating this becomes circular logic because the objections suggest an alternative that has its own set of problems and round and round we go.

No, a Blaser R bleeding 8 bolt can not be knocked, kicked or nudged out of battery if the rifle is not cocked. If cocked, it will go to the rear in order to eject a round - fired or unfired - duh. It can fail to close completely if not pushed completely closed - second duh. Fortunately it will not fire in that condition, though it will go "click." If anyone is walking through the African bush with a loaded and cocked R8 and it's 1.6 - 2.5 lb trigger pull, they are too stupid and dangerous to be hunting. If they aren't closing the bolt completely, they need a lot more trigger time with the rifle.

 

[rookhawk]

No, a Blaser R bleeding 8 bolt can not be knocked, kicked or nudged out of battery if the rifle is not cocked. If cocked, it will go to the rear in order to eject a round - fired or unfired - duh. It can fail to close completely if not pushed completely closed - second duh. Fortunately it will not fire in that condition, though it will go "click." If anyone is walking through the African bush with a loaded and cocked R8 and it's 1.6 - 2.5 lb trigger pull, they are too stupid and dangerous to be hunting. If they aren't closing the bolt completely, they need a lot more trigger time with the rifle.

Same as an SR30, @Red Leg . Yes, in theory it could be knocked out of battery so hard that it doesn't just decock, but is also ejecting, but any knock hard enough to just knock a straight-pull hard enough to decock is 100% enough force to break the three position safety on a mauser or model 70. I got a damned Mopani leaf wedged under my three position safety and broke it in the bush. That ended my 375HH for that safari altogether.

The very last thing I do before final approach is I push my safety forward AGAIN before I shoot. Same with a tang safety. With a straight-pull rifle, I'd be pushing the bolt forward again to double triple check. It's all circular logic because every system introduces its own set of shortcomings. Most shortcomings can be solved by throwing money at it, money that no one is willing to throw at their guns I might add, just bitch. (e.g. my shoddy 3-pos safety was a Dakota, a $700 recknagel wouldn't have broken...don't see many $700 safeties on best mausers)

 

[Forrest Halley]

I just want to know one thing:
Is there a mass alert that goes out electronically when something unfavorable is stated about an R8?
I've got to say that the R8 minutemen have my respect. They just materialize out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing. It's quite remarkable.

 

[One Day...]

And here we go again...

Looks like the "bolt tapping", "bolt bumping" Blaser R8 saga will live forever in every Blaser R8 thread...

OK, so let's go again. As I recently explained in detail on another thread, and as knowledgeable folks are agreeing, anyone who actually understand bolt action mechanics will realize that:

1) ANY BOLT ACTION RIFLE THAT IS COCKED AND OFF SAFE can have its bolt "tapped" or "bumped" out of battery. Armchair internet experts / pontificators / patronizers please go ahead and take a bolt action rifle, any bolt action rifle, out of your safe (that is assuming you actually own a bolt action rifle, never mind a R8) and try it for yourself. By definition, a bolt action off safe can be opened, and all bolts COCKED and OFF SAFE are very easy to open because the firing-pin spring is already compressed.

Let me go further...

2) MOST BOLT ACTION RIFLES THAT ARE COCKED AND ON SAFE (read again: ON safe) can have their bolt "tapped" or "bumped" out of battery.

--- This applies to ALL rifles that have a 2 position action-mounted, sear-blocking safety that does not lock the bolt. Include in this group many, many Mauser 98 rifles with "low profile bolt shroud", factory CZ 550, Remington 700, several generations of Sako, Steyr, etc.​

​

--- This applies to ALL rifles that have a 3 position bolt-mounted, firing pin-blocking safety when the safety is in the intermediate position blocking the firing pin but not locking the bolt, as many folks do.​

In that respect, the R8 is safer than these rifles, because when the rifle is ON SAFE, its bolt is locked closed, period. This, by the way is not unique to the R8, but it does apply to the R8, you cannot have the bolt "tapped" or "bumped" out of battery as long as the rifle is ON SAFE, which should be, in most hunting scenario, until it gets on the sticks.

So, what are we discussing? That by definition, a bolt action off safe can be opened? As Red Leg says: "duh"!

As to "R8 minutemen ... materializ(ing) out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing", could it be instead Forrest Halley : "folks who actually own and know the rifle and who actually hunt DG with it in Africa, correcting errors perpetuated by other folks who do not own and know the rifle - and do not seem to know a heck of a lot about any rifle - and who do not hunt DG with it in Africa".

Now, of course such other folks can chose to remain ignorant, and continue to display such ignorance in endless internet gibberish; this is a free country after all...

 

[Red Leg]

I just want to know one thing:
Is there a mass alert that goes out electronically when something unfavorable is stated about an R8?
I've got to say that the R8 minutemen have my respect. They just materialize out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing. It's quite remarkable.

Probably an accurate observation. I assume it is because there is so much BS asserted about the R8 by people who have never fired one, much less owned one. Happy to debate the merits and questions about the rifle, or any rifle for that matter. I just prefer to do it with someone who actually knows what they are talking about. I am happy to answer anyone's questions based upon my personal experiences with the rifle.

What I simply can't abide is the "I was in Africa and I heard a PH say that R8's were not fit for dangerous game" expert, or the guy that saw one at a range, and somehow deduces and asserts as fact that the rifle's tolerances are too tight to work in the field, or etc etc. That bolt can be knocked out of battery is merely the latest such nonsense asserted.

So yes, as someone who has actually used a R8 here and abroad, on multiple species to included buffalo, I try to quickly point out the absurd.

 

[rookhawk]

Probably an accurate observation. I assume it is because there is so much BS asserted about the R8 by people who have never fired one, much less owned one. Happy to debate the merits and questions about the rifle, or any rifle for that matter. I just prefer to do it with someone who actually knows what they are talking about. I am happy to answer anyone's questions based upon my personal experiences with the rifle.

What I simply can't abide is the "I was in Africa and I heard a PH say that R8's were not fit for dangerous game" expert, or the guy that saw one at a range, and somehow deduces and asserts as fact that the rifle's tolerances are too tight to work in the field, or etc etc. That bolt can be knocked out of battery is merely the latest such nonsense asserted.

So yes, as someone who has actually used a R8 here and abroad, on multiple species to included buffalo, I try to quickly point out the absurd.

In my experience, there is always class struggle. PH's are very hard working people, but also a bit broke. More than a bit short of proper and minimum maintenance of their rifles with very few exceptions. (Lou Hallamore, Vaughan Whitehead, and Garth Adams being three people that maintain their stuff)

As such, I find over there with PHs and even over here, people really, really try to prove to themselves that which they own that is substandard is "just as good" as something that is vastly superior they do not own. Beyond the tricks one play's on their own mind to rationalize such things, people also tend to create actual changes to their protocols to overcome their unacknowledged deficits. Perfect examples include PHs insisting that you shoot the back trigger of a double rifle first...uh, no, clowns with worn out bores in the right barrel do that, dangerously broken doubles that double fire if you shoot the front trigger do that, but the solution isn't doing things the wrong way, its fixing what's broke.

So the notion of a PH saying an R8 is trash will usually be followed by a "better" option from their own collection, usually a FN .458 winchester mauser with a cracked stock and no rifling left in the gun, missing its iron sights. The same PH will then further explain "buying anything good is a waste, the guys will break it", deflecting all accountability off their shoulders while completely justifying broken equipment, asserting anyone that bought better is actually inferior.

Too much sour grapes exists in this world. Come on over and I'll show you guns from $500 to $100,000. I can tell you honestly what is good and bad about each one of them. I can also show you a $2000 gun that is vastly superior to a $30,000 gun. It's not all about price, but it is about quality and maintenance. The R8 seems to be decent enough quality, although not my cup of tea in its usual configurations. Just a preference, not an assertion that Blaser doesn't know how to manufacture to good tolerances.

 

[Tanks]

In my experience, there is always class struggle. PH's are very hard working people, but also a bit broke. More than a bit short of proper and minimum maintenance of their rifles with very few exceptions. (Lou Hallamore, Vaughan Whitehead, and Garth Adams being three people that maintain their stuff)

As such, I find over there with PHs and even over here, people really, really try to prove to themselves that which they own that is substandard is "just as good" as something that is vastly superior they do not own. Beyond the tricks one play's on their own mind to rationalize such things, people also tend to create actual changes to their protocols to overcome their unacknowledged deficits. Perfect examples include PHs insisting that you shoot the back trigger of a double rifle first...uh, no, clowns with worn out bores in the right barrel do that, dangerously broken doubles that double fire if you shoot the front trigger do that, but the solution isn't doing things the wrong way, its fixing what's broke.

So the notion of a PH saying an R8 is trash will usually be followed by a "better" option from their own collection, usually a FN .458 winchester mauser with a cracked stock and no rifling left in the gun, missing its iron sights. The same PH will then further explain "buying anything good is a waste, the guys will break it", deflecting all accountability off their shoulders while completely justifying broken equipment, asserting anyone that bought better is actually inferior.
...

You must hunt with different PHs than I do. Every one that I have hunted with takes very good care of their rifles, and do not go with the nonsense of "back trigger" first etc..

Of course, the ones I hunt with also agree that .375 is a "rat caliber" .

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I just want to know one thing:
Is there a mass alert that goes out electronically when something unfavorable is stated about an R8?
I've got to say that the R8 minutemen have my respect. They just materialize out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing. It's quite remarkable.

Awfully touchy lot they are as well

 

[TOBY458]

I just want to know one thing:
Is there a mass alert that goes out electronically when something unfavorable is stated about an R8?
I've got to say that the R8 minutemen have my respect. They just materialize out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing. It's quite remarkable.

Almost as quick to the draw as the 404J crowd! Lol! But I will come to their defense here. Having owned 3 R8s within this year, I can say that they are very fine rifles. I ended up selling all 3 three that I owned for my own reasons, but it was definitely not because I didn't think they were worthy of hunting with. At the end of the day, I would just prefer to buy a complete rifle, rather than buying a barrel and scope mount for the same price. Not that there's anything wrong with that..

 

[Forrest Halley]

Almost as quick to the draw as the 404J crowd! Lol! But I will come to their defense here. Having owned 3 R8s within this year, I can say that they are very fine rifles. I ended up selling all 3 three that I owned for my own reasons, but it was definitely not because I didn't think they were worthy of hunting with. At the end of the day, I would just prefer to buy a complete rifle, rather than buying a barrel and scope mount for the same price. Not that there's anything wrong with that..

Well tell us about the .404 crowd there Toby... weren't you a member for like four shots and a few weeks?
In glad you got the rifle sold there and quickly. I almost talked myself into it, but figured I'd have to give up my .458 Lott #1 and there's just no way in hell that's happening.

I have to agree with you there on the complete rifle for cost. Although many good points have been made about air travel and such.

I have to say I respect you both for your willingness to lay out large sums to purchase fine things, but also to liquidate them when they do not live up to what seems to be a practical set of expectations. I fear that admission price for some comes with a damning commitment to defend their choice to the last lest they imperil their ego.

 

[Forrest Halley]

And here we go again...

As to "R8 minutemen ... materializ(ing) out of the ethos to protect and defend this thing", could it be instead Forrest Halley : "folks who actually own and know the rifle and who actually hunt DG with it in Africa, correcting errors perpetuated by other folks who do not own and know the rifle - and do not seem to know a heck of a lot about any rifle - and who do not hunt DG with it in Africa".

Now, of course such other folks can chose to remain ignorant, and continue to display such ignorance in endless internet gibberish; this is a free country after all...

Minutemen sounds better to me. I'd want to share a beer with a minuteman and hear his stories. An actual owner and user and hunter of dangerous game...I probably couldn't stomach the company.