Billed after a safari question

[thi9elsp]

I missed an Impala while on on of my safaris. When we got back to camp, the camp manager was adamant, was it a clean miss. The PH assured him it was. I wounded my kudu last day. We spent 6 hours tracking and recovered it.

Both of my safaris, all costs were agreed-to before leaving camp. In one instance I was told to pay when I got back through the US contact. The second instance I accessed my account through the internet and sent the wire. In both instances I had confirmation of paid in full within days.

 

[IvW]

There are no mountain zebra in Zim unless you are refering to one that was on a mountain side at the time.

Golden rule if you are not comfortable with the shot DO NOT pull the trigger......then there are no arguments afterwards....

If the shot could not be called a hit from the animals reaction at the time and as stated they could not find blood(zebra are bleeders unless gut shot(which is fatal) ) and they agreed it was a miss at the time I would tell them to f....off.

It should have been sorted out there and then not months later.

Also always two sides to a coin....

 

[IvW]

Ps. A 270 with 130gr bullets is not the best choice for hunting larger pg such as zebra....

 

[bashaw]

No Blood No Charge to client.
I own a Zebra in Zimbabwe probably dead of old age by now, but we found a speck of blood so he was mine

 

[cajunchefray]

Normally wounded game and not found is considered shot, that is clear to everyone.

In this case the question arises as to whether the animal was hit and wounded, or missed. In a lot of cases, based on how the animal reacted to the shot, it can be assumed whether it was hit or not. Unfortunately, blood cannot always be found and then you have to look for other signs. That's why, at the slightest suspicion of a wounded game, we immediately use in our countries a specially trained dog for tracking the animal.

It is therefore difficult to express an opinion on this case because one would need some additional information, especially from the PH side who certainly not was looking 2 hours for this game without reason.

I am curious as to what breed of dog you use in your countries for tracking wounded game?

It makes a lot of sense as I know here in the Southern USA, sometimes bloodhounds are used to track game (Catahoula, and others) that are very effective in the dense bottomland hardwoods.

 

[poco]

Yeah I wasn’t there on location, and think Margie is wrong on what subspecies the zebra was. They were on Charara concession ( note I wasn’t in the plane when it landed! His father took my spot due to a continued extension in a federal court case)
on a side note the husband contracted to hunt hippo , buffalo, Pg and the PH received a sat phone call that the quota on hippo was filled and a change of location would be required. ( the father confirmed that statement ) son wasn’t happy about the hippo quota and it needing a charter flight
my OP was about the surprise email over a zebra and if that is normal?

 

[Hunt anything]

I've always paid after I got home. Just take enough cash for tips. That was with 8 different Outfitters.

Just the opposite, with 4 different outfitters I’ve always settled up before leaving Africa. I always take cash for any extra animals I shoot and tips for the PH and staff.
The story does seem strange but it’s lacking enough details that it’s tough to make a 100% assessment of the situation, as others have said mt zebra in Zimbabwe? and I’ve never seen any animal lying around Africa for 2 months without it being completely eaten by scavengers and the bones scattered to hell and back. But they have the other trophies from the safari and if they ever want to be seen again you’ll have to pay.

 

[375Fox]

Yeah I wasn’t there on location, and think Margie is wrong on what subspecies the zebra was. They were on Charara concession ( note I wasn’t in the plane when it landed! His father took my spot due to a continued extension in a federal court case)
on a side note the husband contracted to hunt hippo , buffalo, Pg and the PH received a sat phone call that the quota on hippo was filled and a change of location would be required. ( the father confirmed that statement ) son wasn’t happy about the hippo quota and it needing a charter flight
my OP was about the surprise email over a zebra and if that is normal?

I’ll assume the outfitter bought quota here and it’s not their primarily concession? The outfitter could have had a dispute with parks or the game scout that led to this, either during or after the hunt. Your note about PH drinking all the beer on way back to camp would make me think there is a chance he doesn’t treat the game scout professionally at all times. That $100 tip from client to game scout goes a long way to keeping them happy whether it’s earned or not. 2 months after a hunt a wounded zebra would be long eaten by predators. The outfitter should have provided a thorough explanation not just a bill. I still think some details are missing.

 

[375Fox]

My second safari trip I had trouble with my credit card the evening of settling accounts. Man, I was frantic! There was a buffalo bull on the bill with a pile of plains game. Brian said don't worry about it. Get it sorted out when I get home. Can you believe that? Fortunately, I was able to reach my bank's manager just as he was closing up for the day. He fixed it. Last trip I asked Brian how much he wanted down when I booked. "Just bring a couple grand in cash when you arrive." And some guys on here can't understand why I keep hunting with the same outfitter.

I’ve only had one African hunt where payment was due before leaving camp. The other 10 were payment after arriving home. All my European hunts were paid after returning home. Usually lower cost hunts are due in camp because I hunter may decide not to take home trophies on a $5000 hunt on more expensive hunts the payment is usually made after arriving home and trophies are the collateral for payment.

 

[spike.t]

My buddy and his wife went to Zimbabwe, and the PH put the wife on a mountain zebra @ 350 meters and said they couldn’t get a better shot, she said she was uncomfortable with the shot
with a .270wsm 130ttsx , she shot and says she missed, the tracker and PH looked for blood for 2 hours and where unsuccessful finding any .
fastfarward 2 months, he received a bill for the zebra via email , he is refusing to pay because they had no blood on the ground
who is in the right ? Hunter or safari company!

Could be wrong but to best of my knowledge Zimbabwe doesn't have mountain zebra.....Namibia and SA....so sounds strange......and after looking for that long and not finding any blood or a dead animal I wouldn't charge the client...let alone way after the hunt was over.....even if we eventually came across a carcass, or our scouts did I wouldn't charge as down to us not finding any evidence in first place....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I’ve only had one African hunt where payment was due before leaving camp. The other 10 were payment after arriving home. All my European hunts were paid after returning home. Usually lower cost hunts are due in camp because I hunter may decide not to take home trophies on a $5000 hunt on more expensive hunts the payment is usually made after arriving home and trophies are the collateral for payment.

Interesting. My lodge owner always settled up with me and my buddy (1st trip only) the night before leaving. Given the issues I had with the taxidermist over there the first trip and then second trip, retaining trophies wouldn't seem to provide much insurance that he would get paid after I left. Go ahead and keep them since they're probably ruined anyway. The way I look at it is the lodge has bills to pay, particularly trophy fees to property owner, so it seems it would be kinda rude to make him wait to get his money. Guess I put too much value on my Sunday school diploma? No deposit when booking seems highly irregular. Lodge definitely needs that insurance to make sure prospective clients aren't talking through their butt when they book and then back out at last minute.

 

[spike.t]

Interesting. My lodge owner always settled up with me and my buddy (1st trip only) the night before leaving. Given the issues I had with the taxidermist over there the first trip and then second trip, retaining trophies wouldn't seem to provide much insurance that he would get paid after I left. Go ahead and keep them since they're probably ruined anyway. The way I look at it is the lodge has bills to pay, particularly trophy fees to property owner, so it seems it would be kinda rude to make him wait to get his money. Guess I put too much value on my Sunday school diploma? No deposit when booking seems highly irregular. Lodge definitely needs that insurance to make sure prospective clients aren't talking through their butt when they book and then back out at last minute.

I like a small deposit usd 1000 or 1500 to block the dates...then prior to hunt full day rates and any extras, such as transport fees to and from takeri....I only ask for fuel money. Most people want to pay some or all trophy fees up front...I am happy with just payment for the major animal....as I have said we don't guarantee you will get everything you want....but so far we have managed to deliver...so am happy for people to pay outstanding trophy fees when they get home...never had to wait more than couple weeks for that to happen....I like a deposit as have spent lots of time corresponding with people, including on here who say they are coming... then when it's time to send some money even after they have requested bank info they suddenly go silent....so I will hold dates through the early general chats, but as said then I want a deposit...but as stated not a huge one

 

[grand veneur]

I am curious as to what breed of dog you use in your countries for tracking wounded game?

It makes a lot of sense as I know here in the Southern USA, sometimes bloodhounds are used to track game (Catahoula, and others) that are very effective in the dense bottomland hardwoods.

Schweißhunde

Hannoverscher Schweißhund (HSH) kurzhaarig, kräftige Gestalt, Schulterhöhe 50-55 cm, Farben: fahlhellrot bis dunkelhirschrot. Nachsuchenspezialist vor allem auf Hirsch und Wildschweine.

www.jagdverband.de

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am curious as to what breed of dog you use in your countries for tracking wounded game?

It makes a lot of sense as I know here in the Southern USA, sometimes bloodhounds are used to track game (Catahoula, and others) that are very effective in the dense bottomland hardwoods.

From what I have observed Jack Russell terrier or cross are very popular. They seem to work well finding wounded plains game.

 

[Zim Fan]

Zim PH's drinking up all the beer on the ride back to camp does not sound right. Drinking the beer after the hunt is over and in camp, okay.

Are a couple guys that hunt Charara that are good guys, but also seems to be some non Zim outfitters that go into that area.

Two sides to this story I'm sure.

 

[Zambezi]

Provided the details are all correct as stated by the OP... my uncle has a saying which is appropriate for a bill 2 months later....

Go suck a fart.

 

[grand veneur]

There are many other dog breeds and also individual dogs of any breed that are well suited for tracking wounded game. However, the tracking of wounded game is increasingly strictly regulated in our countries and is also subject to training for hunters and dogs, so that some breeds are clearly preferred.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My buddy and his wife went to Zimbabwe, and the PH put the wife on a mountain zebra @ 350 meters and said they couldn’t get a better shot, she said she was uncomfortable with the shot
with a .270wsm 130ttsx , she shot and says she missed, the tracker and PH looked for blood for 2 hours and where unsuccessful finding any .
fastfarward 2 months, he received a bill for the zebra via email , he is refusing to pay because they had no blood on the ground
who is in the right ? Hunter or safari company!

@S-3 Ranch
If'n there was no blood and no animal the first time around how can they then bill you for something.
Personally I would be telling them to whistle Dixie.
No blood = NO DOLLARS in my book
Was the zebra like the proverbial prodigal son. Rejoice what was lost is now found so we can now make the client pay even two months later.
Ain't happening Narrele.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was about to reply to Kevin with similar.

I didn't pick up the detail in the post that he did but I'm not familiar with the area and species.

No offence to Kevin calling BS, he's a straight shooter. He's local with local knowledge.

But, we are getting a third party version here.

I did consider that a dead Zebra with an obvious bullet wound may have been found sometime later but even then I'm sure it's not right to determine that it was that hunter who is responsible. That's only based on the assumption they may have found it later and decided to invoice the hunter who had taken a shot at 350m in that area 2 months earlier.

@CBH Australia
Chris I would think that finding a dead zebra 2 months later in the bush, in an area with a lot of apex predators present would be rather hard to determine how it died.
How much of the animal was left and after 2 months it would stink to high heaven. IF there was still much of the animal left I sure wouldn't like to look for the bullet in it even in a hazmat suit and oxygen.
Me thinks there may be more to the story.
Bob

 

[375Fox]

The way I look at it is the lodge has bills to pay, particularly trophy fees to property owner, so it seems it would be kinda rude to make him wait to get his money. Guess I put too much value on my Sunday school diploma? No deposit when booking seems highly irregular. Lodge definitely needs that insurance to make sure prospective clients aren't talking through their butt when they book and then back out at last minute.

You could always pay at the end of each day too if you don’t want him waiting on money. Standard practice I’ve seen is daily rates paid up front, possibly a payment for major animal or trophy fee deposit, then final payment as a bank transfer shortly after returning home. No deposit paid on hunt is unusual, but if space in lodge is available and large amounts of land are available to hunt and free lance PHs are readily available no real risk on his part either since all his payments are post hunt and also everyone loves cash.