Big Elephant Reportedly Taken in Tanzania

[dchum]

https://africageographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/TAHOA-responce-to-Africa-Geographic1.pdf

This is the outfitters response to emails and articles written to him/about the two bulls hunted legally in Tanzania

Might be some information people find useful. Like many have said…. Oh so complicated

 

[Scott CWO]

Bad thing about taking the big tuskers is a loss of big tusk genetics. I think it was this forum I read that on.

Wrong. By the time big tuskers have been taken, they have bred many, many times beforehand. The cows also contribute 50% of genetic material/DNA and age is also important for big ivory. As long as Tanzania limits the harvest, there will always be big elephants in the population. Lots of big elephants break off their ivory but have just as good or better ivory genes but you can’t tell because the ivory broke off during fighting. The notion that taking a few old big bulls affects genetics is a lie. It doesn’t work that way. Offspring are not clones. Are your kids exact copies of you? Are your siblings, even from the same mother, exact copies? A bull elephant breeds several different females and the genetic diversity is large.

 

[WAB]

I quarantee all the meat was burned......100% fact.....

Over the locals barbeque fires......

Except what became biltong! I couldn’t believe they were making biltong out of elephant in Botswana. They must have some strong chewing muscles!

 

[Scott CWO]

https://africageographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/TAHOA-responce-to-Africa-Geographic1.pdf

This is the outfitters response to emails and articles written to him/about the two bulls hunted legally in Tanzania

Might be some information people find useful. Like many have said…. Oh so complicated

One of the most awesome letters ever written on this subject and to the antihunters!!

 

[Firebird]

Boddington has written about elephant kill sites being burned to keep the local elephant population calm. I’ve also seen it on tv hunting programs several times. But that only happens after the meat and “trophy parts” have been gleaned by ph/hunter and the locals. My guess is the author of the original article misunderstood the term “carcass”

 

[spike.t]

https://africageographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/TAHOA-responce-to-Africa-Geographic1.pdf

This is the outfitters response to emails and articles written to him/about the two bulls hunted legally in Tanzania

Might be some information people find useful. Like many have said…. Oh so complicated

Michel is a good guy...known him a long long time

 

[Firebird]

Craig Boddington’s Tracks Across Africa page 324 hunting with Michel Mantheakis in the Lukwika hunting area explains the “sanitizing” of an elephant kill site by burning the entire area.
I view this as respectful to the remaining population-

 

[skydiver386]

https://africageographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/TAHOA-responce-to-Africa-Geographic1.pdf

This is the outfitters response to emails and articles written to him/about the two bulls hunted legally in Tanzania

Might be some information people find useful. Like many have said…. Oh so complicated

That almost needs to become a sticky on this forum. An absolutely superb response.

 

[spike.t]

Craig Boddington’s Tracks Across Africa page 324 hunting with Michel Mantheakis in the Lukwika hunting area explains the “sanitizing” of an elephant kill site by burning the entire area.
I view this as respectful to the remaining population-

Bigger problem as stated is the poisoning of the remaining meat to kill lions and other predators....also vultures are taking a hammering because of this ...poachers do it to kill as many vultures as they can so they can't give away any poached animal remains.....and the poachers...people also think they kill their livestock.....we used to get them coming to dead animals, and poached remains....but now we can leave a carcass from something that died...but get zero vultures....think last year saw one...but that's it....not good....and can't remember last time... was few years ago

 

[Luminous Ham]

Let us just hope they didn't have names!

10 years ago the zoo in Copenhagen had a surplus giraffe, named Marius, that they announced they would butcher, in public, and feed to the lions - there was an international outcry with dead threats etc! (most Danes were ok with it). A year later the zoo in Odense had a surplus lion they would perform a public autopsy on, in front of school children - there were protest, but nothing compared to when Marius was to be fed to the lions.

Both events went ahead, picture of the giraffe event with kids here:
https://www.bt.dk/udland/dansk-giraf-slagtning-gaar-verden-rundt

One theory behind the difference in reaction is that the giraffe had a name, the lion did not (or at least it was not made public, just like Cecil.

Nobody ever commented on the fact that Denmark slaughter 30 million pigs every year.... but they also don't have names. And a pig was actually publicly slaughtered and cut up the day before the lion with no protests - typically done during school holidays to show the city kids where their meat is coming from.

(part of the zoos' management plans are to allow the animals to breed, allowing them to express natural behavior, and if no other zoo wants the surplus, feed it to the carnivores)

 

[Hunt anything]

Bigger problem as stated is the poisoning of the remaining meat to kill lions and other predators....also vultures are taking a hammering because of this ...poachers do it to kill as many vultures as they can so they can't give away any poached animal remains.....and the poachers...people also think they kill their livestock.....we used to get them coming to dead animals, and poached remains....but now we can leave a carcass from something that died...but get zero vultures....think last year saw one...but that's it....not good....and can't remember last time... was few years ago

That’s sad, some of my fondest memories of Mozambique are watching the vultures whiffle down to a buffalo carcass!
If they ever catch these guys they should be force fed a rotten vulture laced with the same poison.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I need to re watch that episode on the BBC America channel on elephant to be positive. But If my memory is correct the narrator said elephants can live up to 50 years old and only able to reproduce up to 30 of those years.

Yet another nature show on elephant showed an old bull being pushed/ fought by a younger bull resulting in the older bull being removed from the herd and into solidarity.

Since both of these nature programs were filmed in parks. These programs only gave the underestimated number of wild elephants that populated the parks and not the total estimated population number of wild free roaming African elephants. Nor did these shows comment on the destruction to habit and local villages caused by elephants.

The TAHOA response to Africa Geographic referenced in dchum thread is preaching to the choir as I doubt any anti will read it.

IMO, While the article listed by the OP is somewhat contradictory to the information provided by the 2 different narrators of 2 nature shows I referenced.

Just goes to prove not even the antis can get their own opinionated "facts" right on the subject of wildlife "conservation".

Old bulls and old cows both of which are past their reproductive prime should be ethically hunted for the good of the herd and habit. Their genetics are all ready being spread.

 

[bakerb]

I don't want to appear to be claiming I'm an expert, having been on one elephant hunt in Botswana, but I don't think the burning carcass thing is uncommon. My PH reported to me that they commonly burned carcasses of elephants legally hunted (after trophies and meat had been removed), as a way to sanitize an area, because it would affect elephant usage of an area. I'm not sure how long they wait to do it.

When I killed mine, we moved on immediately to leopard, which we got 4 days later, and then we moved to a ranch area for plains game. I never thought to ask if they were burning it when I was there, or after, or whatever. There were 30+ Bushman employees in camp at almost all times it seemed, and aside from the staff I saw every day in trackers, kitchen, tent, etc, there were a bunch of guys that I were always busy doing something in camp. Cutting new roads, maintaining the pumps and solar equipment, etc. So I'm sure they dispatched a crew at some point to burn it.

I do know that they estimated they got 3,000 lbs of boneless meat from my elephant. I missed the butchering because we were trying hard to find a leopard, but the second PH in camp was there for the butchering and gave me lots of pictures of the process. They USED that elephant.

The public has no idea. I gave two speeches about my hunt to local groups, a Rotary club and an elks lodge, and granted this is a very conservative area and both speeches were in a town of about 10,000, but there were many people who didn't even know you could legally hunt an elephant. Both speeches were very well received and if there was a negative response it wasn't reported to me.

Unfortunately these bleeding heart groups have much better PR than us.

One thing I would ask you all to consider doing in the future. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, and you see these preservationist groups post their misinformation. . . . report it as false information. Maybe it does nothing. Maybe it does. I'm not sure, but it's something I've started doing if I see these bleeding heart posts.

 

[Sue Tidwell]

The below linked story dated 11 March reports a "super tusker" has recently been hunted in Tanzania.

THIRD ELEPHANT KILLED BY HUNTERS IN AMBOSELI LANDSCAPE

A third elephant has been killed by trophy hunters in northern Tanzania, in a part of the Greater Amboseli Ecosystem.

biglife.org

This story and the Joint Statement on the same site make for interesting reading.

It seems likely this might blow up into another "Cecil the Lion" story.

I find the report that "all carcasses were burned" interesting to say the least.
If true . . . why? Was there no local human population to collect and use the meat?
I believe this area is primarily Masai land and am not sure about their willingness to eat elephant. But if there was no local human population available or willing to utilize the meat, why not then allow "nature" to utilize the carcass?

I believe we'll be hearing more about this . .

This was already being circulated on Instagram with the normal comments to go with it...trashing hunters. Honestly, it made me sick to my stomach. Not because it was a bad hunt...but because I knew the antis would use this like another Cecil. I was relieved when it went almost a week before reading this. There is a reason for burning....but darn it....I can't remember the reason. Also, from my understanding of the posts and banter back and forth, it was in the Maasai area and they do not eat elephant. Sorry that I can't remember more. Sue

 

[VertigoBE]

https://africageographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/TAHOA-responce-to-Africa-Geographic1.pdf

This is the outfitters response to emails and articles written to him/about the two bulls hunted legally in Tanzania

Might be some information people find useful. Like many have said…. Oh so complicated

Thanks for sharing this, I'll use the arguments in the letter for future reference and discussion

 

[Certus]

Wrong. By the time big tuskers have been taken, they have bred many, many times beforehand. The cows also contribute 50% of genetic material/DNA and age is also important for big ivory. As long as Tanzania limits the harvest, there will always be big elephants in the population. Lots of big elephants break off their ivory but have just as good or better ivory genes but you can’t tell because the ivory broke off during fighting. The notion that taking a few old big bulls affects genetics is a lie. It doesn’t work that way. Offspring are not clones. Are your kids exact copies of you? Are your siblings, even from the same mother, exact copies? A bull elephant breeds several different females and the genetic diversity is large.

Thanks, instead of a dislike why not just a correction response? This ain’t Facebook. As said, I think I read about what I posted here, someone saying the genetics are pretty much gone.

 

[IvW]

Thanks, instead of a dislike why not just a correction response? This ain’t Facebook. As said, I think I read about what I posted here, someone saying the genetics are pretty much gone.

I quess thats why 30lb is now throphy size in Zim.....

 

[wesheltonj]

Big discussion elsewhere. Some of the turmoil was the rumors of the use of an helicopter. Which has been denied. It appears that this is going to revive the cross border ban of hunting big tusker elephants.

And Biglife is not anti-hunter.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Congrats to the two hunters that killed a 100 lb bull

 

[Scott CWO]

Big discussion elsewhere. Some of the turmoil was the rumors of the use of an helicopter. Which has been denied. It appears that this is going to revive the cross border ban of hunting big tusker elephants.

And Biglife is not anti-hunter.

You must have read a different article than I did? Definitely not pro-hunting.