Big Bore Addiction Group

[Amon458]

I know it wouldn't be much use in Africa but still really cool.

 

[matt85]

erk ive seen that strange firearm before...

-matt

 

[Rob404]

Ok Guys I need some help, I'm looking to buy 1 round for a 404 Jeffrey, I want to get a head start on modifying the Magazine from my Mod 98,thank you ,Rob

Got the help I needed,,thanks guys

 

[spike.t]

I know it wouldn't be much use in Africa but still really cool.

must be very difficult to make a semiauto .505 that works . not that i know anything about even trying to build one, but wouldnt have thought its that easy?

 

[matt85]

@spike.t the 505 Gibbs operates at a pretty low pressure, i imagine a modified semi-auto shotgun action would work. those auto loading 505's weigh in at 17 pounds and are illegal in just about every African country so they are novelty items. if you want a novelty 50 cal rifle get a Barret m107, its more powerful and cheaper to shoot.

-matt

 

[matt85]

heads up on a good deal!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523499885

-matt

 

[tarbe]

Got the 416 Rigby from AZDave yesterday.

Loaded my first 416 ammo tonight (that makes cartridge number 34 on the hit parade...22 Hornet to 458 WM).

I have a NEGC peep and a new recoil pad on the way from Midway. I know I won't have the opportunity to shoot it this weekend...but hopefully next.

Those 400gr Hornady bullets are pretty sexy in the big Rigby case. The 350gr Mag Tips don't look to shabby, either!

These first loads are mild...on the order of original 404J ballistics. Want to get the feel for the rifle before I start breathing fire! Not to mention I will be on the bench to start, getting the new sight on paper. Nothing like a big bore off the bench, lol.

Just a few months ago I was shopping a 'smith to convert my 375 No 1 to 404J.

Got jaded and sold the rifle...figured I'd just play with what I have.

Then along comes a deal on a 416 Rigby I can't pass up...and here I am.

Hope to fire up the lead furnace tomorrow and drop some boolits out of the new RCBS mold.

I like guns!

Tim

 

[matt85]

congrats on the new 416 Rigby!

ive been using 300gr Barnes TSX at 2650fps in my 416 RM. im betting you could get those 300gr TSX going much faster in your rigby!

-matt

 

[tarbe]

Matt

I have heard some guys cranking out the 300 TSX out at around 2,900 fps!

 

[Rob404]

Well it's official I have almost joined the 400 club, I have purchased a CZ550 in 375HH and It will be shipped to the Smith for a re-barrel and Modded to be a Safari Classic in 404 jeffery. I could have gone custom but I decided all I need is a working mans rifle and supplying a rifle that already has an action and a cross braced stock will save me some Money, I'll have the express sights and have a Mercury recoil reducer installed, then the entire rifle will be re-blued to Old school Gloss Blued, somewhere down the line I may have a stock up Grade but for right now the present stock will work fine

 

[matt85]

Well it's official I have almost joined the 400 club, I have purchased a CZ550 in 375HH and It will be shipped to the Smith for a re-barrel and Modded to be a Safari Classic in 404 jeffery. I could have gone custom but I decided all I need is a working mans rifle and supplying a rifle that already has an action and a cross braced stock will save me some Money, I'll have the express sights and have a Mercury recoil reducer installed, then the entire rifle will be re-blued to Old school Gloss Blued, somewhere down the line I may have a stock up Grade but for right now the present stock will work fine

congrats on the new rifle!

Matt

I have heard some guys cranking out the 300 TSX out at around 2,900 fps!

the 416 RM will do over 2700fps but the accuracy wasn't all that great so i stuck with 2650fps which yields 1 MOA. at 2650fps i have used the rifle to take plains game VERY effectively. another bullet id be interested in trying is the 300gr .416" Peregrine plainsmaster but sadly i have not been able to get them in country yet.

-matt

 

[Rule 303]

Well it's official I have almost joined the 400 club, I have purchased a CZ550 in 375HH and It will be shipped to the Smith for a re-barrel and Modded to be a Safari Classic in 404 jeffery. I could have gone custom but I decided all I need is a working mans rifle and supplying a rifle that already has an action and a cross braced stock will save me some Money, I'll have the express sights and have a Mercury recoil reducer installed, then the entire rifle will be re-blued to Old school Gloss Blued, somewhere down the line I may have a stock up Grade but for right now the present stock will work fine

Congratulations on a good choice, for me it came down to the 404J or 416Rigby. I went with the Rigby.

Now a word of Warning. Try and find another sort of recoil reducer. Mercury is not allowed on aircraft without special permission and packing. Mercury dissolves aluminium fairly quickly. I have seen a 737 that was taken out of commission because of the amount of damage done by mercury from a thermometer. Damaged a rib. With the advent of checked baggage X ray the chances of the recoil reducer and the liquid contents being picked up is increasing.

 

[matt85]

i never put much stock in those mercury reducers any way. ive shot two different rifles chambered in 505 Gibbs, one with a mercury reducer and one without and i didnt notice any real difference. both rifles weighed about the same and had the same length of pull. in the end im pretty sure its just the weight that matters.

if the rifle is of proper weight and the stock fits you the recoil of any 416 is fairly mild when compared to guns chambered in 458 or larger. in my opinion a 416 should weigh at least 9.5 pounds empty in order to be properly comfortable to shoot. my 416 RM with scope weighs 10.5 pounds and is both easy to carry and easy to shoot. if i remove the scope my 416 RM only weighs 9 pounds and the recoil seems to develop a sharp bite to it.

for 458/474 caliber guns 10.5 pounds is my minimum and 11+ pounds being preferred for guns 50 cal and up. my 505 Gibbs weighs 11 pounds 4 ounces and i can throw a 600gr bullet at 2250fps without any discomfort.

note: take all this advice with a grain of salt, i shoot more then i hunt. i easily fire at least 70,000 grains of lead/copper down range every month from guns 50 caliber and up. most of my shooting is done with the 505 Gibbs these days as im completely in love with this cartridge at the moment.

-matt

 

[tarbe]

Now a word of Warning. Try and find another sort of recoil reducer. Mercury is not allowed on aircraft without special permission and packing. Mercury dissolves aluminium fairly quickly. I have seen a 737 that was taken out of commission because of the amount of damage done by mercury from a thermometer. Damaged a rib. With the advent of checked baggage X ray the chances of the recoil reducer and the liquid contents being picked up is increasing.

Being as the mercury tubes are metallic, I would have thought that they would show up essentially the same as say a lead weight in the stock?

 

[tarbe]

Adding fixed mass to the firearm reduces the total recoil impulse.

Adding a movable mass to the firearm (spring-loaded weights or mercury are the most common) not only reduces total recoil impulse due to mass, but also spreads the impulse over a greater period of time. We are all familiar with the description of the "long slow push vs the sharp jab".

Recoil calculations consider only the mass of the firearm, the mass of the ejecta, and the velocity of the ejecta. There is no consideration for time.

When it comes to recoil control and recoil perception, time is your friend!

I have never used such a recoil reduction device, but this muzzle heavy 416 has 15 ounces of shot in the butt and I think I will replace the lead with a mercury tube just to try one out.


Tim

 

[Rob404]

Looking at recoil tables a 404 jeff has about the same recoil as a 375HH and I can shoot 300gr all day with my fairlyl light Whitworth, I know that a CZ loaded and scoped will weigh about 13#. I'm not sure on what length barrel to go with I believe CZ(when they made 404s) went a touch over 25" I don't know if I want to stay with Factory or go 22 or 24"

 

[matt85]

Adding fixed mass to the firearm reduces the total recoil impulse.

Adding a movable mass to the firearm (spring-loaded weights or mercury are the most common) not only reduces total recoil impulse due to mass, but also spreads the impulse over a greater period of time. We are all familiar with the description of the "long slow push vs the sharp jab".

Recoil calculations consider only the mass of the firearm, the mass of the ejecta, and the velocity of the ejecta. There is no consideration for time.

When it comes to recoil control and recoil perception, time is your friend!

I have never used such a recoil reduction device, but this muzzle heavy 416 has 15 ounces of shot in the butt and I think I will replace the lead with a mercury tube just to try one out.


Tim

the theory behind the mercury tube is well known, but how much recoil it really reduces compared to a simple lead weight is debatable. as said ive fired two nearly identical guns except one had lead weights and one had mercury and i couldn't tell the difference. in my opinion if the mercury tube reduces recoil more then lead weights its by a very small unnoticeable amount.

-matt

 

[tarbe]

the theory behind the mercury tube is well known, but how much recoil it really reduces compared to a simple lead weight is debatable. as said ive fired two nearly identical guns except one had lead weights and one had mercury and i couldn't tell the difference. in my opinion if the mercury tube reduces recoil more then lead weights its by a very small unnoticeable amount.

-matt

Matt

The mercury tube does not reduce the total force of the recoil beyond what simple dead weight will...it just spreads it out a few extra milliseconds.

There are other variables that can and do make more of a change to perceived recoil...the tube is just one element available to people as they put together a system (which hopefully focuses on rounds down range in practice).

 

[Rob404]

You here a lot of pros and cons on Mercury reducers, I'll add it and If I want to experiment I can remove it and see if there is in fact any difference

 

[ActionBob]

The mercury tubes or dead mule type reducers are only about the cost of half a box of factory ammo... So I have to agree with Rob, why not try it?

I don't dispute what Matt says, but the science Tim is speaking of makes all the sense in the World to me... It is all about little degrees of improvement. To me the small cost is well worth any improvement on these real big bores... And I don't like carrying heavy guns all day in the heat. So I'll take what I can get for any small reductions and try to hold the overall weight down. Matt carrying those heavy guns is a lot different at 30 years of age than 50+

I like my in stock reducer, but never tried simple lead. Anything beats those awful muzzle brakes!

And @Rob44 , my guns with 26" barrels seem mighty awkward compared to the 24" ones. I would seriously consider a 22" and would be inclined to go no more than 24".