Best .45 ACP round for black bear protection

[Granygudness]

If I chose to carry a 45 for bear defense, I would carry 230 grain flat nose solids or perhaps the 255 grain hardcast FN solids. Buffalo Bore and Doubletap make them both, Underwood makes the 255 grain, and Winchester makes the red45, a 230 grain. Other sources can also be found. FN solids give better straight line penetration than round nose ball along with a larger permanent wound channel.

 

[Marrs_Hills]

Wow, I never even would have thought about a .45 to go up against a black bear. Most hunters I know would go no less than a 44. But that is interesting.

 

[dneaster3]

If I chose to carry a 45 for bear defense, I would carry 230 grain flat nose solids or perhaps the 255 grain hardcast FN solids. Buffalo Bore and Doubletap make them both, Underwood makes the 255 grain, and Winchester makes the red45, a 230 grain. Other sources can also be found. FN solids give better straight line penetration than round nose ball along with a larger permanent wound channel.

Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore agrees with you...

 

[CoElkHunter]

Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore agrees with you...

Very interesting. I learned from reading Sundle’s tech articles on his website that a true hard cast lead bullet is much “slicker” than a copper or brass bullet and thus a heavy hard cast bullet can achieve a higher velocity than a copper/brass bullet of the same weight with a similar powder charge. What I was surprised by is the penetration through both shoulders of a black bear that Sundles describes with a 255gr. hard cast out of a .45ACP? I have those bullets for my Glock 21, but since I bought a Glock 40 10mm a few years ago, I’ve been carrying BB 220gr. hard casts in it when out in the woods.

 

[analog_peninsula]

Food for thought: graphs of bear attacks by decade and species. Also, rate of attack by population count.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I meant to include this graph.

 

[HillBilly69]

Here in Maine,USA i carry a glock 21 with Underwood +P hardcast when out in the back country.
Not actually for bear, but for Moose.
A cow with young can be very aggressive at times.
Of course same can be said for a mother bear, but they tend to run off more then a moose will....
Usually a shot in the air will change their mind.....

 

[Forrest Halley]

Very interesting. I learned from reading Sundle’s tech articles on his website that a true hard cast lead bullet is much “slicker” than a copper or brass bullet and thus a heavy hard cast bullet can achieve a higher velocity than a copper/brass bullet of the same weight with a similar powder charge. What I was surprised by is the penetration through both shoulders of a black bear that Sundles describes with a 255gr. hard cast out of a .45ACP? I have those bullets for my Glock 21, but since I bought a Glock 40 10mm a few years ago, I’ve been carrying BB 220gr. hard casts in it when out in the woods.

You must be very, very careful with a Glock 21 and big heavy lead bullets. Choose your barrel very carefully and keep it very clean. I have been to steel shoots where people have had Kabooms with a Glock and time after time it is always the 21 with Long Colt bullets. Nobody has lost a hand yet, but they have sustained injuries of bruises and lacerations. The guns have all been destroyed.

 

[HankBuck]

You must be very, very careful with a Glock 21 and big heavy lead bullets. Choose your barrel very carefully and keep it very clean. I have been to steel shoots where people have had Kabooms with a Glock and time after time it is always the 21 with Long Colt bullets. Nobody has lost a hand yet, but they have sustained injuries of bruises and lacerations. The guns have all been destroyed.

@Forrest Halley - were those “Kabooms” in Glock 21s using Reloads or Factory ammo?

 

[CoElkHunter]

You must be very, very careful with a Glock 21 and big heavy lead bullets. Choose your barrel very carefully and keep it very clean. I have been to steel shoots where people have had Kabooms with a Glock and time after time it is always the 21 with Long Colt bullets. Nobody has lost a hand yet, but they have sustained injuries of bruises and lacerations. The guns have all been destroyed.

One must use "hard cast" lead bullets only. According to one of Buffalo Bore's technical articles on their website, hard cast bullets are actually "slicker" than copper or brass jacketed bullets which allows a heavier hard cast bullet for a given cartridge to travel faster than the same copper/brass example. Hard cast also doesn't foul the barrel. Using a lead bullet IS a recipe for disaster. Back when I was young and fairly stupid (ignorant), I bought some 200gr. lead bullets because they were cheap and reloaded them in my .45 Colt Government Series 70. I quickly quit using them because they fouled the barrel terribly and the lead was extremely difficult to remove from the barrel. Live and learn I guess.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

When I get barrel leading I break out my Lewis Lead Remover tool!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

One must use "hard cast" lead bullets only. According to one of Buffalo Bore's technical articles on their website, hard cast bullets are actually "slicker" than copper or brass jacketed bullets which allows a heavier hard cast bullet for a given cartridge to travel faster than the same copper/brass example. Hard cast also doesn't foul the barrel. Using a lead bullet IS a recipe for disaster. Back when I was young and fairly stupid (ignorant), I bought some 200gr. lead bullets because they were cheap and reloaded them in my .45 Colt Government Series 70. I quickly quit using them because they fouled the barrel terribly and the lead was extremely difficult to remove from the barrel. Live and learn I guess.

Bullet fitment is far more important than bullet hardness when it comes to barrel leading. A 200 grain 45 ACP should be fine at pure lead assuming it’s the proper size, groove diameter plus .001.
One can get a bullet too hard to where they lead anyway.
The issue with Glock is the polygonal barrel.

 

[Flbt]

tons of black bear where i live. I’m partial to 1911’s , the only handguns I own. Black bear here doesn’t get too big but what would you all think to be the best round just to keep chambered when out in the woods for black bear? We have cougar too but don’t See em. I lived in Alaska and have seen 45 ACPs piss brown bear off, just want a round where if it comes to it I know I’m shooting the 45Acp round with most stopping power. I’m would never shoot a bear unless my life depended on it and I’m familiar with brown bears charging, so I know how to stand my ground , but in Alaska at least, black bear were more unpredictable then Brown . I don’t know if these black bear here are same way ?
Id lug my 450 Marlin but she’s heavy

I know some will recommend hard cast if they work and feed in your gun ok.
Do you see yourself needing the gun for people and secondly for bear?
If so a well built 230gr hp bonded .
If just for bear a fmj sim was cuter.
That’s what the game wardens here usto recommended and if you have to shoot keep shooting until it’s down

 

[Flbt]

I know some will recommend hard cast if they work and feed in your gun ok.
Do you see yourself needing the gun for people and secondly for bear?
If so a well built 230gr hp bonded .
If just for bear a fmj sim was cuter.
That’s what the game wardens here usto recommended and if you have to shoot keep shooting until it’s down

Oh I would agree that 99% of the time the black bear not that dangerous.
But you will hit the outlier at some point ( or some one will)
Rabid
Or like I had about 19 years ago shot a deer it went on to someone else’s land they had no problem with me looking for the deer but did not want us to carry a gun.
It took a few hr to get up with them.
And in that time a bear found it and calmed it.
He didn’t back down I let him have it and left.
But who knows if someone just walked in and didn’t know what the teeth snapping was.

But honestly I am more worried about hogs than bear and the way coyotes are getting they might be more of a problem.

And the hogs are why I carry a 44 snub nose most of the time instead of a 45

 

[CoElkHunter]

Bullet fitment is far more important than bullet hardness when it comes to barrel leading. A 200 grain 45 ACP should be fine at pure lead assuming it’s the proper size, groove diameter plus .001.
One can get a bullet too hard to where they lead anyway.
The issue with Glock is the polygonal barrel.

Well, I don’t see any reason to use pure lead bullets in today’s handgun shooting world?FMJs and jacketed soft points are really inexpensive now compared to the late ‘70s. According to again, one of Buffalo Bore’s technical articles, Glock’s polygonal barrel rifling isn’t subjected to any more increased bullet fouling than any other type of barrel rifling. I rarely clean my Glock barrels because they have very little to no fouling when shooting copper/brass jacketed or hard cast bullets.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Well, I don’t see any reason to use pure lead bullets in today’s handgun shooting world?FMJs and jacketed soft points are really inexpensive now compared to the late ‘70s. According to again, one of Buffalo Bore’s technical articles, Glock’s polygonal barrel rifling isn’t subjected to any more increased bullet fouling than any other type of barrel rifling. I rarely clean my Glock barrels because they have very little to no fouling when shooting copper/brass jacketed or hard cast bullets.

I would think gas checks would probably help with other polygonal barrels and BB may use them.
I don’t hand load for automatic handguns, ammo is cheap enough and I hate picking up casings.
My six guns see the bulk of my shooting and never see a jacketed bullet. Ever. There is no real advantage, a good SWC will kill just as well, just as accurate, and the bore never needs cleaning or hen the bullets fit right. As a bonus, bore life is greatly extended.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I would think gas checks would probably help with other polygonal barrels and BB may use them.
I don’t hand load for automatic handguns, ammo is cheap enough and I hate picking up casings.
My six guns see the bulk of my shooting and never see a jacketed bullet. Ever. There is no real advantage, a good SWC will kill just as well, just as accurate, and the bore never needs cleaning or hen the bullets fit right. As a bonus, bore life is greatly extended.

I agree a good SWC or full WC work very well in a revolver. Back in the day, they were preferred over the primitive jacketed hollow and soft points available at the time. I had a 2” .44 Special Charter Arms Bulldog at one time that a buddy of mine reloaded 200gr full WCs. Shot well out to fifteen yards but it was a defensive handgun so that distance was more than enough. When Super Vel came out with their jacketed hollow points in the ‘70s, they revolutionized ammo used in semi autos. Their ammo would feed and function reliably in the autos where other brands wouldn’t.

 

[Jack Stevens]

I shoot only coated hardcast bullets in my pistols (.45 & 10mm), and only coated and gas-checked bullets in my rifles. No leading issues.

In fact I’ve had great accuracy and no leading out of my 10mm Glock 40’s factory barrel (6.2”) with SNS Castings coated 220grn FN slugs.