Barnes 416 TSX 350gr Bullet For Buffalo

[TOBY458]

Neither.

If I had to have a .416 Caliber rifle it would be a .416 Rigby.

If the choice was only the two you mention and a Rigby was absolutely not available it would reluctantly have to be the .416 Ruger.

Why the Ruger?

 

[geoff rath]

Because the case doesn't have a stupid belt on it.

 

[TOBY458]

Because the case doesn't have a stupid belt on it.

Yea, I do feel the belt is useless on a case with a good shoulder to headspace on. But I guess at the time when the 416 Rem and 300 Win Mag, ect. were made, the case had to have a belt to be considered a "magnum". I have never really had a problem with a belted case feeding correctly, but I'm sure it would feed even better without it....

 

[Red Leg]

Here is the picture and background posted by Peter Larson for those who are interested.

One is perfect the other a complete failure. Same bullet, same rifle, same load, same buffalo. Exactly the reason I cannot stake my life on these bullets.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/bullet-performance-database.37971/page-4

View attachment 206634

Had the same experience with 270gr TSXin 375HH when I shot my buff.
First bullet quartering frontal shot at six meter.
Worked perfect and blew the heart to pieces and broke the leg on the exit side.
Second shot quartering away hit in the rump did fail and was recovered under the skin in the front
of the buff.
I shot plainsgame with 250gr TTSX and had no exits.
Shot nyala,red hartebeest and waterbuck.

I am not enough of a Luddite to say ignore the internet and only go with one's personal experience. However, agreeing with that for the moment, I would simply note that I have never had a failure of any sort on any game while using a TSX bullet. They range from a couple of buff and eland at one end, through black bear, to duiker at the other. Truth in lending, I personally use the 300 gr in the .375. However, to my knowledge, I have never lost a petal. I say to my knowledge, because I have recovered very few. Based upon my personal experience, which seems to parallel much of the internet consensus, the TSX is an outstanding choice for dangerous game. In fact, I personally believe that the TSX and Swift A-Frame are the two best choices on the market. But that is just my opinion based on my experience.

 

[Red Leg]

Yea, I do feel the belt is useless on a case with a good shoulder to headspace on. But I guess at the time when the 416 Rem and 300 Win Mag, ect. were made, the case had to have a belt to be considered a "magnum". I have never really had a problem with a belted case feeding correctly, but I'm sure it would feed even better without it....

I have never had a belted case of any caliber fail to feed because of the belt. Ever. Sure, it is a bit like an appendix on modern cartridges - but so what.

 

[geoff rath]

Just a personal thing; the belted case was merely a selling point way back when, no real reason for it . . .

 

[TOBY458]

I too have had great results with TSX on Water Buffalo and deer sized game as well. In fact, my PH in Australia recommended that's what I use. I killed 3 large bodied bulls and the 300 grain 375 bullets penetrated very well and expanded perfectly. But I know that 3 buffalo only tells a small part of the story.

I am not enough of a Luddite to say ignore the internet and only go with one's personal experience. However, agreeing with that for the moment, I would simply note that I have never had a failure of any sort on any game while using a TSX bullet. They range from a couple of buff and eland at one end, through black bear, to duiker at the other. Truth in lending, I personally use the 300 gr in the .375. However, to my knowledge, I have never lost a petal. I say to my knowledge, because I have recovered very few. Based upon my personal experience, which seems to parallel much of the internet consensus, the TSX is an outstanding choice for dangerous game. In fact, I personally believe that the TSX and Swift A-Frame are the two best choices on the market. But that is just my opinion based on my experience.

 

[IvW]

Why the Ruger?

No belt on the case.

 

[IvW]

I have never had a belted case of any caliber fail to feed because of the belt. Ever. Sure, it is a bit like an appendix on modern cartridges - but so what.

Belted cases are more of an issue on straight walled cases with regards to feeding rather than on bottle neck cases where they are not needed anyway.

 

[IvW]

I am not enough of a Luddite to say ignore the internet and only go with one's personal experience. However, agreeing with that for the moment, I would simply note that I have never had a failure of any sort on any game while using a TSX bullet. They range from a couple of buff and eland at one end, through black bear, to duiker at the other. Truth in lending, I personally use the 300 gr in the .375. However, to my knowledge, I have never lost a petal. I say to my knowledge, because I have recovered very few. Based upon my personal experience, which seems to parallel much of the internet consensus, the TSX is an outstanding choice for dangerous game. In fact, I personally believe that the TSX and Swift A-Frame are the two best choices on the market. But that is just my opinion based on my experience.

TSX are premium grade bullets. However TSX have a too small hole and rely on hydraulic action to expand. They work at their best at higher velocities and when they do not on initial impact contact hard bone but rather softer parts of the animal eg. behind the shoulder shot.

The other issue I have with them on DG is that they are of rear weight design. Swift for me is a better DG bullet.

 

[IvW]

In the .400 caliber range I would still prefer the 404 Jeff over any of the .416 caliber cartridges.

 

[geoff rath]

Yup. I know the Rigby needs a long action (expensive), but they feed like a worm going down a chicks gullet. Despite having a near-parallel body, a decent length in the neck, and a sharp (almost 45 degree) shoulder. for a cartridge released in 1911 (a significant date, surely?) that's pretty damn modern, isn't it?
It's only concession to its age is the case length; it was designed to run with (stick) cordite at moderate pressures. Modern powders could boost its performance (Brass not quite up to "magnum" pressures ?) but does it really need run to Weatherby limits? Don't think so . . .
As for the 404 (born 1909), they are almost twins, performance wise . . . I think both would serve as "last resort" Buff stoppers.

 

[TOBY458]

Yup. I know the Rigby needs a long action (expensive), but they feed like a worm going down a chicks gullet. Despite having a near-parallel body, a decent length in the neck, and a sharp (almost 45 degree) shoulder. for a cartridge released in 1911 (a significant date, surely?) that's pretty damn modern, isn't it?
It's only concession to its age is the case length; it was designed to run with (stick) cordite at moderate pressures. Modern powders could boost its performance (Brass not quite up to "magnum" pressures ?) but does it really need run to Weatherby limits? Don't think so . . .
As for the 404 (born 1909), they are almost twins, performance wise . . . I think both would serve as "last resort" Buff stoppers.

Thanks for all the replies! I guess the reason I have always chosen standard and belted mag calibers and more recently the 416 ruger, is because of the ease in finding reloading components. I do find the 404 intriguing, but I would never be able to use it enough to choose it over a much easier/cheaper to feed 375 or 416.

 

[CTDolan]

If a person reloads a non-belted cartridge is the way to go, if possible (that, or get a collet die from Accurate Innovations). As for feeding, the belt in no way poses an issue. If a rifle chambered in a belted round has feeding issues it is due to the rifle, not the cartridge.

Regarding the original inquiry, no doubt a 350 grain TSX would hammer a buffalo hard! The only issue I have with the TSX (and its kind) is that the bullet becomes inherently unstable should the front fail to open upon entry (in other words, it'll tumble, killing all hopes of a good mushroom or a straight course).

 

[Kent Giles]

They had data for their 350 and 300 grain bullets in .416 Ruger? I emailed them a while back and they told me they didn't have data for that cartridge. must be I got the wrong guy.

I’m finding a consensus on 350 Barnes TSX using 75 to 76 grains of reloader 15. Sold my CZ 550 in 416 Rigby but wanted a weather proof working.416. Love the Ruger Alaskan. Not a beauty to behold but it feels great and maneuvers well in brush. Still a Mauser style
Action and cycles well. I like the factory 400 grainers but am
downloading to 350 and 300 grain bullets for velocity/trajectory improvement and non dangerous game. Should be a great gun on large boar and bear as well. Ill keep my 375 HH CZ 550 for plains game, but like the 416 when more is truly better. Has anyone taken buffalo with the 350 grain bullets? Elk?

 

[mdwest]

Im hoping the 416 Taylor I am prepping to build likes the 350gr barnes... I just picked up 100 350gr TSX and 50 350gr banded solids... Once the gun is built (hopefully by the end of the year), the plan is to work up a load, commit to a lot of practice, and then chase buff in June 2019 with the new rifle and 350gr cartridge..

 

[Kent Giles]

As long as impact velocity is above 1500 FPS it should open up and make a nice wound channel. That should be doable at less than 300 yards. I talked with Barnes load support today. They said we can use lead cast load data safely to get starting loads for 350 and 300 tipped tsx bullets. Hope this helps you.

 

[Dr Ray]

Im hoping the 416 Taylor I am prepping to build likes the 350gr barnes... I just picked up 100 350gr TSX and 50 350gr banded solids... Once the gun is built (hopefully by the end of the year), the plan is to work up a load, commit to a lot of practice, and then chase buff in June 2019 with the new rifle and 350gr cartridge..

A nice project and let us know how it performs please.

 

[TOBY458]

Well I went with 400 grain Swift A Frame bullets, and here is the result. One frontal chest shot at around 75 yards, and the bull only ran maybe 20 yards before going down. The death bellow came about a minute later. The gun is a Winchester 70 416 Rem Mag. Load was around 2325fps. A soft recoiling, low pressure load in this rifle.

 

[DWB]

Well done! Congrats