B. Searcy 500/416 NE

[matt85]

another update: the 3 boxes of Superior brand ammunition showed up today and I received a call from my FFL saying the gun was ready to be picked up! will try to wake up early tomorrow and go pick the rifle up before work.

note: Im looking over the ammunition and it appears Superior doesn't seem to mind mixing head stamps in boxes . the bullets are 30 old blue coated Barnes X bullets and 30 Barnes brass solids. The cases have assorted head stamps, with BeLL being the only one I know. here's a list of the head stamps if any ones interested.

BeLL

* WR *

H H

H D S

If the blue X bullet loads regulate ill use them for practice loads. If the loads using Barnes solids regulate I will save them for hunting purposes. if any do not regulate they will be pulled down and used for materials.

thanks
-Matt

 

[matt85]

update: i picked the gun up this morning before work and took a few minutes to look the rifle over and shoulder the gun. the rifle looks outstanding and as far i could tell the only flaws i could find were the small dent in the wood (pictured) on the wrist and some mild discoloration on the metal at the chamber mouth (might clean up). as first glance the rifle feels very well balanced and points well. the sights come up to the eye very easily with almost no need for adjustment. i wont truly know how well the gun fits me till i shoot it but it feels very promising!

unfortunetly the poor carry case was damaged durring shipping. the strap in the center of the case that holds the body of the rifle has been pulled threw the wood of the case and is now loose in the box. this was likely cause by a careless UPS worker either dropping or tossing the package. i will likely have the seller open a claim against UPS for this damage. can any one recomend a place to have the case repaired?

thanks
-matt

 

[AkMike]

The HH is top quality Horneber from Germany, The HDS is probably Norma or HH brought in by Huntington Die Speciality. The WR could be Westley Richards But I'm not 100% on that one.

 

[PeteG]

WR can be both Westely Richards and Wolfgang Romey.
The Wolfgang Romey headstamps have a pentagon on either side of the letters WR.

 

[matt85]

the WR stamped cases have what looks like they could be pentagons on either side, I tried to simulate that with the * symbol.

ive been working on cleaning the gun up since I got home a couple hours ago. the poor rifle appears to have been neglected for a long time. it has small bits of surface rust in the chambers and on the muzzle and the inside of the barrels is somewhat discolored from allowing copper fouling to sit in there and corrode for many years. so far it seems to be cleaning up pretty good, the inside of the barrels will never look pretty and the muzzle might need a little bluing touch up but these aren't big issues. I am a little disappointed in the seller not mentioning the surface rust, but I can see how you might not notice it unless your looking for it.

well back to cleaning...

-matt

 

[PeteG]

the WR stamped cases have what looks like they could be pentagons on either side, I tried to simulate that with the * symbol.

Ah... not paying attention properly this morning!! Still half asleep too much late night football!

 

[Patrick R]

Don't wanna highjack the thread, but another stupid question again...

What does the "500/416" or "450 / 400" stand for? I am not a side/side fundi and shoots with a bolt action.

1. is it a 500 or a 416?
2. why do they call it like this?

 

[matt85]

its not a stupid question. 450/400 NE 3" and 500/416 NE 3.25" are old fashion British designations for cartridges. (even though the 500/416 NE 3.25" is actually new)

I find it best to break it into parts to make it easier to understand:

500/416 = the first number is the parent case, which in this case is the 500 NE. the second number is what the case has been necked down to, which in this case is the popular 416 bullet.
NE = "Nitro Express" which is used to designate cartridges that use smokeless powder instead of black powder.
3.25" = the length of the case.

the same applies to the 450/400 NE 3", its a 450 NE necked down to a 400 (.410) with a 3 inch case. its important to remember the measurement at the end of each cartridge name because some times that's the only difference in their names. example: 450/400 NE 3" and 450/400 NE 3.25"

-matt

 

[CAustin]

Well again I learned something this morning. Thank you Matt85 for the tutorial on the case sizes. But why neck down a 500 to a 416? Doesn't the 500 equate to a 50 cal? Like others I don't know everything about the sizes of bullets the origins.

 

[Red Leg]

Well again I learned something this morning. Thank you Matt85 for the tutorial on the case sizes. But why neck down a 500 to a 416? Doesn't the 500 equate to a 50 cal? Like others I don't know everything about the sizes of bullets the origins.

Why indeed - Rifle cranks have been creating new rounds from original case designs since the beginning of the cartridge era. Think of all the 57mm length (Continental European way of designating cartridge case length) rounds that have been built by necking up and down the 8x57 (7x57, 6.5x57, 9x57 etc). Most wildcats start from another base cartridge. The Krighoff .500/.416 was created to give .416 Rigby performance in a SXS rimmed cartridge. The .500 base cartridge (which is a .510 or 1/2 inch bullet - depending how you measure it) is ideal because its size allows the use of relatively low pressure powders to achieve Rigby velocities in .416. Many hunters prefer the .416 to the .500 as a more general purpose round. A final point of confusion is how the bullet width is measured. In the US and on the continent, the measurement is typically taken on the grove - many British cartridges were measured at the land. So, the .318 Wesley Richards Express actually shoots a .33 caliber bullet which is why its performance is typically compared to the .338-06.

 

[AkMike]

Keep in mind that there are other differences in the rounds other than the bullet size also. The 450NE 3 1/4" cannot be made into a 450/400 3 or 3/14 round because of the rim thickness. The 450NE uses a thin rim and the others are thicker.
The 577/500 is similar case sized to the 577NE but not the same either.
Bore sizes varied a fair amount for the same caliber back in the early days also.

 

[Velo Dog]

Keep in mind that there are other differences in the rounds other than the bullet size also. The 450NE 3 1/4" cannot be made into a 450/400 3 or 3/14 round because of the rim thickness. The 450NE uses a thin rim and the others are thicker.
The 577/500 is similar case sized to the 577NE but not the same either.
Bore sizes varied a fair amount for the same caliber back in the early days also.

Here all along, I thought the .450/400 NE 3 & 1/4" had a thin rim because it was indeed nothing more than the original .450 NE 3 & 1/4 necked down (?).
But I have only seen it in photos so, my observation of it could be distorted.

I learn something new every day, whether I want to or not.

Trivia:
The 3" version, thicker rim and all, is just about a perfectly proportioned / giant .30-30.

Cheers.

 

[matt85]

But why neck down a 500 to a 416? Doesn't the 500 equate to a 50 cal?

necking a 500 or .510" down to .416" gives you a smaller but faster moving bullet in a double. instead of a 570gr bullet at 2150fps you now have a 400gr bullet moving at 2300fps. this makes the rifle more suitable for thin skin game but still plenty powerful enough for the big stuff.

-matt

 

[AkMike]

Hmmm I double checked my copy of Bill Fleming's book ' British Sporting Rifle Cartridges "and you're right Paul. My Boo-Boo. the 3 1/4" does use the thin rim.

But just for a bit of trivia that I noticed in the book before.. There were 19 cartridges called a 500/450. All the way down to the 1 9/16" WR #1 Carbine 500/450 up to the 500/450 3 1/4"

 

[Velo Dog]

Hmmm I double checked my copy of Bill Fleming's book ' British Sporting Rifle Cartridges "and you're right Paul. My Boo-Boo. the 3 1/4" does use the thin rim.

But just for a bit of trivia that I noticed in the book before.. There were 19 cartridges called a 500/450. All the way down to the 1 9/16" WR #1 Carbine 500/450 up to the 500/450 3 1/4"

Thank you for that.
Trivia makes the world go 'round.
I knew there were multiple British .450 rifle and handgun cartridges both but, I had no idea there were nineteen 500/450 cartridges, wow.
By the way, I have to marvel at the fact that the UK specifically (and to some degree, Europe in general), developed what seem to still be the best African big game cartridges about 100 years ago but, today in the USA we are trying to re-invent proper African calibers for some reason.
I will however admit that the .458 Lott is a beauty but, most of the other "Johnny-come-lately" cartridges seem a little bit silly to me.
Also, it is a mystery why H&H or WR, or WJ Jeffery, etc., did not offer something similar to the .458 Lott at about the same time H&H offered their .375 belted magnum.
Whatever,
Out.

 

[enysse]

A big reason why I bought the .416 Rem is because of cheap guns, brass and bullets available. I would have bought a 404 Jeffrey if I could have for the same price.

 

[Velo Dog]

A big reason why I bought the .416 Rem is because of cheap guns, brass and bullets available. I would have bought a 404 Jeffrey if I could have for the same price.

What sort of rifle in the Remington version of .416 caliber did you find that was cheaper than a CZ in the original Rigby .416 caliber?
Here in Anchorage, I can get Hornady .416 Rigby empty/unfired/new brass, once in awhile but, it has been years since I have seen .416 Remington brass or live ammunition around here.
Last time I checked, they use the same projectiles in most brands except that Woodleigh makes separate ones for each - the Rem version is 400 gr and the Rigby version is 410 gr (but I will guess they still cost about the same).
I don't get it.

 

[matt85]

Velo Dog, i dunno about enysse's rifle but you could rebarrel a rifle chambered in 375 H&H to 416 Rem for alot cheaper then a new CZ in 416 Rigby would cost. as far as ammo cost, outside of Alaska the 416 Remington is cheaper if you shoot factory ammunition.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog, i dunno about enysse's rifle but you could rebarrel a rifle chambered in 375 H&H to 416 Rem for alot cheaper then a new CZ in 416 Rigby would cost. as far as ammo cost, outside of Alaska the 416 Remington is cheaper if you shoot factory ammunition.

-matt

Not likely one is to be found this cheap but, let's just say that I buy a used .375 for 6 or 700 bucks and have it re barreled for perhaps 5 or 600 bucks, then proper sights installed, suddenly it's costing as much or more than what I paid for my CZ .416 Rigby.

I've not tried factory live ammunition in most of my rifles, including the .416 mentioned.

 

[AkMike]

Depending on the barrel thickness you could have your 375 bored out to 416 for a few hundred.