Assets

[Altitude sickness]

Also ActionBob, as you know there is a window or gauntlet of scale to get through.

Many small businesses have great success and then need to hire more people, then the government policies and regulations come into play. So now you need legal and HR to navigate (in house or contracted) those choke holds on profits.

Then the small business owner finds he is working harder and his margins have actually diminished. So he needs to spend more to get to into the next league. So the narrow window to get through is getting up to the scale you spoke of.

Many small and mid size business owners had better margins when they were smaller. They were not able to scale into the next league effectively.

That’s why equity groups buy companies on the way up to help them through that gauntlet of scale and efficiency . Then sell it to the next size equity shark in the sea at its peak.

 

[Safari Dave]

Most firearms, even high-end firearms either go down in value, or provide a ROI far below CDs or bonds. There are some exceptions to this that are worth mentioning:

Dakota Rifles
Griffin & Howe Rifles
Heym Double Rifles
Smallbore British Shotguns

Are their returns meteoric? No, but it is functional art that you can use and enjoy the examples above have definitely provided an 8% YoY increase over the last decade.

What guns have performed very poorly on the other hand, but are generally considered "high quality"?

Win Model 21s
Parker Shotguns
Custom American Rifles on win70 and CZ actions
12 bore British shotguns from best makers HH, Boss, Purdey, Westley, etc.
Modern double rifles by all makers except Heym

I think the four "good" investment examples I gave above are so good because they have two factors going in their favor: 1.) The collector that has to have one, and 2.) The anti-collector that couldn't care less, but a used one costs a lot less than a new one and is driving their prices up in relationship to new MSRPs.

It always feel good when you buy a product and it holds its value or better. (Specific guns and specific rolexes being examples of functional art that may be considered appreciating assets)

I ran the numbers on my Heym double that I bought (new) in 2000 for $11,700.

If I had bought a CD...

$11,700 @ 5% x 25 years (w/compounding) = $40,833.00

I'm still glad I bought the Heym, but if the money was in a CD, I could now buy an 89B and have plenty of $ left over for accessories and more ammo that I could ever shoot.



My Rolex Submariner that my parents gave me when I graduated college in 1987...

$2,200@5% x 38 years = $14,707

Not bad, but a brand new one is $10,650



But, like most of us on this forum, I want to experience things and have nice things.

I don't care to be worth $100 million when I'm dead, so that my kids can fight over it.




(I'm dealing with an in-law who never got to experience very much while growing up. (No nice vacations, beater cars, no help with college, never even eaten seafood until they were grown, you name it). Now that their dad is 90, he has started giving very large sums of money to all his children. This money could have been used decades ago to give his children a much more rewarding and enriched life.

Sure, a an extra $100K or two is nice when your retired and on a pension, but it could have helped so much more they were paying their own way through college, putting their kids through college, buying their first home...

(I believe that kid's should certainly have "skin in the game "when it comes to them paying important things, but to live a life where you never traveled over 500 miles from home until after you were married...)

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I like commercial and residential real estate. Have since my early 20’s…

Otherwise delay gratification as long as you can and:

Dollar cost average into the stock market over your adult income earning years.

401K balanced pool.

Roth IRA

CD’s and Ultra Short term bond funds.

All my other “collectibles” are more or less non-investments…

I’m selling off a lifetime of hunting gear, fishing gear, antiques, art, tools, equipment, and other items I’m no longer using. I’ll likely loose money, but I’m tired of being burdened by things that take up space and are not being used. Sure the sentiment is there, but it’s time to part with some of this stuff. Hell, I still have Tonka trucks from my first birthday!

 

[ActionBob]

I like commercial and residential real estate. Have since my early 20’s…

Otherwise delay gratification as long as you can and:

Dollar cost average into the stock market over your adult income earning years.

401K balanced pool.

Roth IRA

CD’s and Ultra Short term bond funds.

All my other “collectibles” are more or less non-investments…

I’m selling off a lifetime of hunting gear, fishing gear, antiques, art, tools, equipment, and other items I’m no longer using. I’ll likely loose money, but I’m tired of being burdened by things that take up space and are not being used. Sure the sentiment is there, but it’s time to part with some of this stuff. Hell, I still have Tonka trucks from my first birthday!

Those Tonka trucks are worth money!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

View attachment 693312

Nearly spit my coffee out lol. Hilarious context

 

[HookMeUpII]

Very few people made their fortune buying and selling fine art, automobiles or fine firearms….or Precious Moments figurines, Beanie Babies, or Baseball cards! They made their money in other ways, and that allowed them to dabble in the collectibles market. I’m not talking about those who established a business in collectibles, like Barrett and Jackson in the vintage auto world. People like these are not primarily collectors, but auctioneers.

I know plenty of people who’ve done well for themselves by running businesses, buying and selling land, or investing in the equities markets. I know a few that got rich selling their services (one is a retired master woodworker who could charge pretty much what he wanted and still had a waiting list.) I don’t know anyone who got rich buying and selling muscle cars, firearms, art or collectibles.

By the way, anything made and sold as a collectible, like special-edition Winchesters or numbered art prints, is almost certain to lose value over time. If it comes with a letter of authenticity, then it’s 100% certain to be a bust.

Ditto to this and furthermore, most of the really wealthy people I know still work their tails off. Most of my clients in the 8-figure range, and one in the 9-figure range, still work actively into their 60's and 70's. One is even pushing 80.

 

[Woodcarver]

Ditto to this and furthermore, most of the really wealthy people I know still work their tails off. Most of my clients in the 8-figure range, and one in the 9-figure range, still work actively into their 60's and 70's. One is even pushing 80.

This is what I've seen as well. My wealthy uncle has run his own businesses all his life and at 89 is still working. Currently land development and cattle. (I'm trying to be that favorite nephew, lol)

 

[CoElkHunter]

It's region specific. Here in NJ, everyone thinks they are a SWAT operator and wants SBRs, AR15s, AK variants, and all sorts of surplus crap.

You could probably offload 20 Yugo SKS's here for $600 before you could sell a high-end double rifle at a discount.

A lot of the stuff that holds a ton of value is often tough to offload.

Surprisingly, same where I live in southern Colorado. There’s only a couple of gun stores that actually carry a selection of hunting rifles/shotguns. Everything else are black guns and sniper rifles. Most of the buyers here wouldn’t know or care what a large bore rifle, DR or Blaser is even if ANY store here had ONE to look at.

 

[BryceM]

The Buss Family paid $67.5 million for the LA Lakers back in 1979 and they just sold it for $10 Billion. Interestingly, if they had put that same money in the stock market, over the same period of time it would be worth even more.

Now, of course, they pulled off LOTS of revenue during those years, but the time value of money is really incredible.

As for collectibles, there are only a few people that regularly make money on them. Auction houses, dealers, and brokers do fine. Really savvy collectors who know their stuff can do OK if (and only if) they have regular access to exceptional buying opportunities. Classic wood-stock rifles aren't all that popular with the black plastic crowd that is up and coming. Modular chassis guns are all the rage, and they really shoot!

When it comes to investing, the only way to develop a strategy is to know what your goals are. If it's leaving a financial legacy for your kids, that's different than maintaining a certain lifestyle until you kick the bucket. Commercial real estate is tempting (fewer tenant issues), but it's not as predictable as residential housing. Farm land doesn't generate all that much active income in most cases, but it certainly appreciates. Mutual funds and REITs are historically excellent, but it's just spun-up paper, and governments/empires have a habit of eventually failing.

The best investment for most people is actually working on themselves, obtaining knowledge, a trade, a professional license, a healthy lifestyle, or warm interpersonal relationships.

For me, the formula is to put about 10-15% of my net worth in silly things that make me happy. That includes precious metals, firearms, cars, and other collectibles.

My financial guy recently told me to spend more on hunting. When he laid out how many good years I have left, it was a bit cold and sobering. So, I'm working on that.

 

[TheGrayRider]

You can’t take it with you.

Alaska dall sheep hunt (Brooks Range) in 38 days, 18 hours, and 17 minutes. Gonna be rough - 14 day wilderness backpack hunt without resupply. The training and planning continues.

Second attempt for a dall sheep as we bumped a legal ram back in the same unit in 2020. I vowed to return and get back on the mountain. No guarantees and nothing gets easier with time on these mountain hunts - never quit.

Good luck and happy hunting to all! See you on the mountain, TheGrayRider a/k/a Tom.