Another “hunt” from YouTube Cape Buffalo

[IvW]

Video was made by an American.....

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Video was made by an American.....

What bearing does that bit of information have? Nothing. The overwhelming majority of people who hunt Africa are American. There’s gonna be some bad apples in the lot. The more important factor is the outfitter who allows this

 

[IvW]

Who is worse the one snorting the coke or the one supplying it???

 

[Dhutson]

This is so damaging to RSA hunting. While this is rare in RSA, it never occurs in Zim. Hence, I recommend everyone hunt Zim to reduce the risk of this terrible game ranch experience. RSA Operators, I'm not hating on your country, but you've got to go on the offensive as this video damages your national reputation and profession immensely.

Then we go to the hunter himself. Every time we get an uppity, aggressive bowhunting thread on this forum, its from a guy that wants to extol the virtues of "speed kills" with light arrows and "hardware store" broadheads just like this guy had. My 12 year old would have had double the penetration with his 42lb bow and proper arrows than this joker. Point of my critique: anecdotes of how many thousands of white tail deer one kills with their bow setup is rendered moot in Africa. If the bow isn't perfectly tuned with properly weighted arrows and world class broadheads, you end up looking like a buffoon. Perhaps that's why the buffalo was so annoyed at the truck in the first place, it had probably been hit by similar shots countless times!

Spot on. I went on my first safari to Tanzania with Cloete & West Safari and it wasn't a hunt it was an experience where taking a Big Dagga boy was just a part. More like the traditional way. I would never have paid for such an experience that you reference and for sure never let a video be made to capture it. Seems like hunting had nothing to do with it.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Who is worse the one snorting the coke or the one supplying it???

Both are bad. I’d say the supplier is worse by small margin. Maybe a 60/40 split. It’s up to the outfitter to run an ethical operation and say no to this stuff. Period. The customer is not always right.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I notice our hero has comments turned off on this posting over on YouTube.

I went and left a comment on their FB page....

 

[rookhawk]

I went and left a comment on their FB page....

What amazes me is not that this crap happens, it happens in Texas too. The difference is the psychopathic mindset of these RSA videos. In America, the dirtbags know they are dirtbags and would tell the client "no video, no pictures" sweeping it all under the rug. In RSA they have no understanding of how awful they appear to be on film.

 

[Frederik]

Some of these videos are comedy shows and yes it gives South Africa a bad name but surely these hunters can't be so stupid and uneducated after all they both spent over $10K on a shoot for buffalo.

So I like IvW's comment "Who is worse the one snorting the coke or the one supplying it???"

Seems like showing off these hunts as thats the way to do it makes them believe that its ok to do this Bullshit!!

 

[russ473]

I agree with Dewald people like this that call themselves hunters and give South Africans a bad name, not all SA phs are like that...and still post the video. It is unfortunate that some bad apples spoil it and give the anti hunters ammo too. The outfitter/ph should have their licences revoked permanently.......

 

[Major Bonkers]

Fundamentally, the problem is a lack of respect for the animal. It is a privilege to hunt game and we owe it to our quarry to try to make the death as quick and painless as possible. Entering into a hunt with inadequate weapons and refusing to follow-up wounded game is very poor behaviour.

As my friend Mr. Swarrie says: you shoot the buffalo with a bow and arrow, you go into the thick stuff after it with a bow and arrow. It is unreasonable to expect someone else to put himself in danger to sort out your stupid mistake.

The late Guy Wallace had it absolutely right:

By the end of filming, however, Graham Scott felt his own views on hunting soften: “He is hunting and stalking an animal that’s lived a life in the wild and doesn’t know what’s going on until a bullet obliterates it. That is better than some poor hen living in a battery cage or a pig in those horrible pens.”

The hunter, meanwhile, had a chance to articulate his misunderstood code of conduct: “The whole thing is about getting as close as you can to the quarry for a humane kill… For me, that’s the ethics of it, which seem to be going out of every bloody thing these days. Or perhaps I’m just an old fuddy-duddy.”

He would not shoot within 500 yards of his vehicle, or anywhere near a waterhole. “The animals need their water… so to ambush them at a waterhole absolutely stinks.”

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I understand there are several American PHs operating in SA. My PH calls them "cowboys". He pointed out one buffalo hunting video with the client making an absolute dog's breakfast of it. The bulls in the group of six were all unbelievable ... because they weren't wild. "That cowboy's 'concession' is 1500 acres." Pen raised fish in a barrel.

 

[375Fox]

This is so damaging to RSA hunting. While this is rare in RSA, it never occurs in Zim. Hence, I recommend everyone hunt Zim to reduce the risk of this terrible game ranch experience. RSA Operators, I'm not hating on your country, but you've got to go on the offensive as this video damages your national reputation and profession immensely.

Then we go to the hunter himself. Every time we get an uppity, aggressive bowhunting thread on this forum, its from a guy that wants to extol the virtues of "speed kills" with light arrows and "hardware store" broadheads just like this guy had. My 12 year old would have had double the penetration with his 42lb bow and proper arrows than this joker. Point of my critique: anecdotes of how many thousands of white tail deer one kills with their bow setup is rendered moot in Africa. If the bow isn't perfectly tuned with properly weighted arrows and world class broadheads, you end up looking like a buffoon. Perhaps that's why the buffalo was so annoyed at the truck in the first place, it had probably been hit by similar shots countless times!

I think they have gone on the offensive but it hasn’t changed the actual hunting going on. 5 years ago it was easy to find YouTube videos with ear tags and semi-domesticated buffalo hunts. It’s getting much more difficult now. Even many of the game ranching videos of buffalo have been removed. I think they realized the commercialized image was hurting their reputation.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Both are bad. I’d say the supplier is worse by small margin. Maybe a 60/40 split. It’s up to the outfitter to run an ethical operation and say no to this stuff. Period. The customer is not always right.

Agree. The addict is only harming themselves (and the people around them). The supplier is damaging large numbers of people by providing them with the drugs for profit.

 

[375Fox]

I understand there are several American PHs operating in SA. My PH calls them "cowboys". He pointed out one buffalo hunting video with the client making an absolute dog's breakfast of it. The bulls in the group of six were all unbelievable ... because they weren't wild. "That cowboy's 'concession' is 1500 acres." Pen raised fish in a barrel.

There is a huge amount of buffalo shooting occurring in South Africa. Anyone with a farm can buy young bulls from a commercial breeding farm and introduce them to their property. The old bulls on these breeding farms then get darted and transported to a hunting property so they don’t die of old age. The breeding pens are easy to see in Limpopo. Whether they are released on to 1500 acres or 50,000 acres they aren’t wild. South Africans have turned buffalo into farm animals. I think it’s very unfortunate for those in South Africa who try to hunt from sustainable quotas from herds on their properties instead of put and take.

 

[375Fox]

Video was made by an American.....

And every other aspect of the hunt was South African. It’s time you all clean up your hunting industry there, but it’s already too intermixed with farming and won’t change. When it’s not viewed as a wild animal anymore and just harvesting a farm animal the practices shown in these videos are allowed to occur. Same with CBL shooting, same with shooting stocked crocs in a pond, all practices normalized in South Africa presently. None of these practices appear to receive internal criticism even though it hurts operations trying to hunt sustainably. Americans will very readily criticize the hunter as seen in these discussions.

 

[Dewald]

I honestly don’t think this is productive to turn the matter into an American vs South African debate. There is a thing such as free will, and both the outfitter/PH and the clients are participating here out of their own. Both are completely unethical and both collectively contribute to hunting getting a bad name across the globe.

Not one of the hunters are whatsoever representative of US hunters in general, nor are the clowns acting as PHs representative of all South African hunters, PHs and outfitters.

I agree completely that these practices hurt the image of South Africa really badly, and that it shouldn’t be allowed. The difficulty however is how to stop these practices. It is easy to say we need to put pressure on the bad apples, but unfortunately they are acting within the law, or close enough to it. The various provincial nature conservation departments hardly have the funds to look after the game reserves, let alone police the hunting industry. PHASA is unfortunately useless as an association in terms of regulating the ethics in the industry. One would hope that a new organisation like Custodians of professional hunting and conservation will grow sufficiently to have an effective voice in the industry.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

There is a huge amount of buffalo shooting occurring in South Africa. Anyone with a farm can buy young bulls from a commercial breeding farm and introduce them to their property. The old bulls on these breeding farms then get darted and transported to a hunting property so they don’t die of old age. The breeding pens are easy to see in Limpopo. Whether they are released on to 1500 acres or 50,000 acres they aren’t wild. South Africans have turned buffalo into farm animals. I think it’s very unfortunate for those in South Africa who try to hunt from sustainable quotas from herds on their properties instead of put and take.

I think that is a generalization. It's what I thought when on my first safari a deal suddenly came up to shoot a management cow from one of those breeding farms. That really didn't sound at all anything I wanted. But the lodge owner was persistent. The price was ridiculous cheap (I mean ridiculous) and he assured me the cow was exceptional (she was) and the experience would be hunting. Hmmm. How many acres? Only 3600. "Well, they must be pets?" Both lodge owner and my PH laughed. "Buffalo don't like people. It's the way their made." Lodge owner badly wanted me to go because it was the first time dealing with this farm (which was actually immense in the mountains with lots of other game opportunities). He was confident I would not screw it up.

The buffalo herd, even though they were being fed through the drought, was indeed extremely cagey. We chased them around in the thick stuff all afternoon before catching them crossing an opening. I shot the 25 year-old cow at 110 meters and put her down with a heart shot. Then the herd bull, with $114K US auction tag in his ear, came for us (he was a FANTASTIC bull). Granny's death bellows turned him back twice. Herd had enough and wouldn't follow him the third time. Those breeding animals were plenty wild.

At the end of that safari another farmer called. "Here's an opportunity for 48" sable bull for $4,800. Great deal." Breeding bull right? Yes. Well, I'd seen one of those operations and knew it would not involve any real hunting. Sable are NOT anything like buffalo. I was not interested. "Didn't think you would be but thought I'd throw it out there."

I would do management buffalo again. My current PH took a client for one of those cows this year and it took several days difficult hunting in miserable weather. Difficult hunt and cheap price, what's not to like? The animal didn't look like much (hence culling her) but I will take a hard hunt over big horns every time ... especially if it's cheap.

 

[375Fox]

I think that is a generalization. It's what I thought when on my first safari a deal suddenly came up to shoot a management cow from one of those breeding farms. That really didn't sound at all anything I wanted. But the lodge owner was persistent. The price was ridiculous cheap (I mean ridiculous) and he assured me the cow was exceptional (she was) and the experience would be hunting. Hmmm. How many acres? Only 3600. "Well, they must be pets?" Both lodge owner and my PH laughed. "Buffalo don't like people. It's the way their made." Lodge owner badly wanted me to go because it was the first time dealing with this farm (which was actually immense in the mountains with lots of other game opportunities). He was confident I would not screw it up.

The buffalo herd, even though they were being fed through the drought, was indeed extremely cagey. We chased them around in the thick stuff all afternoon before catching them crossing an opening. I shot the 25 year-old cow at 110 meters and put her down with a heart shot. Then the herd bull, with $114K US auction tag in his ear, came for us (he was a FANTASTIC bull). Granny's death bellows turned him back twice. Herd had enough and wouldn't follow him the third time. Those breeding animals were plenty wild.

At the end of that safari another farmer called. "Here's an opportunity for 48" sable bull for $4,800. Great deal." Breeding bull right? Yes. Well, I'd seen one of those operations and knew it would not involve any real hunting. Sable are NOT anything like buffalo. I was not interested. "Didn't think you would be but thought I'd throw it out there."

I would do management buffalo again. My current PH took a client for one of those cows this year and it took several days difficult hunting in miserable weather. Difficult hunt and cheap price, what's not to like? The animal didn't look like much (hence culling her) but I will take a hard hunt over big horns every time ... especially if it's cheap.

You and I have a very different definition of what’s wild. It’s a hunt I’d have no interest in regardless of trophy size. However, I’d agree 3600 acres is a huntable area for fair chase at least. I’ve seen buffalo breeding pens in Limpopo that are really only pastures. The buffalo need transported elsewhere to be shot.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You and I have a very different definition of what’s wild. It’s a hunt I’d have no interest in regardless of trophy size. However, I’d agree 3600 acres is a huntable area for fair chase at least. I’ve seen buffalo breeding pens in Limpopo that are really only pastures. The buffalo need transported elsewhere to be shot.

Let me clarify: wild as in not tame. I would say these buffalo were as spooky and ornery as anything one might encounter on the mega-concessions. I didn't expect that. It turned out to be a worthwhile hunt and I put that old cow down humanely. She was in tough shape but seemed to be able to keep up with the rest okay. Hadn't had a calf in four years and lost her last two. I think they wanted to let her die on the range but the drought was hurting animal and farmer. No ear tag but that was not necessary. Her horns distinguished her from the rest.

 

[375Fox]

Let me clarify: wild as in not tame. I would say these buffalo were as spooky and ornery as anything one might encounter on the mega-concessions. I didn't expect that. It turned out to be a worthwhile hunt and I put that old cow down humanely. She was in tough shape but seemed to be able to keep up with the rest okay. Hadn't had a calf in four years and lost her last two. I think they wanted to let her die on the range but the drought was hurting animal and farmer. No ear tag but that was not necessary. Her horns distinguished her from the rest.
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For me, feeding, ear tags, veterinary checks, close management and the other aspects that follow a breeding operation would ruin the experience for me. I think this is all a path to domestication. For now, they still have wild characteristics but i question what it will look like in 25 years or 50 years. I don’t like how close farming and hunting are in South Africa.