American Black Walnut-Juglans Nigra, for gun stocks

[IvW]

Is the below true? Highlighted in red the important part cannot seem to get the table to post correctly.....

COMPARATIVE STRENGTHS
As you will note from the following information, American Black Walnut is undisputedly harder and stronger than European Walnut.

Strength Moisture Content Rupture Strength Elasticity Strength Crushing Strength Shear Strength Hardness Strength
American Black Walnut* 8% 16,456 1,756,000 9,291 1,430 1,051
European Walnut* 8% 13,100 1,540,000 7,320 1,320 860
American Black Walnut Strength Advantage - +26% +14% +27% +8% +22%
EUROPEAN WALNUT (Juglans Regia): Other Common Names: Akrot, Ancona Auverge, Austrian Walnut, Basilikon, Carua, Caryon, Charmagz, Caucasion Walnut, Circassian (area in Caucasus/Black Sea) Walnut, Englische Wallnuss, English Walnut, European Walnut, French Walnut, Gemeine Wallnuss, Italian Walnut, Jaoz, Nogal, Nogal America, Nogal Comun, Noyer, Persian Walnut, Persicon, Russian Walnut, Turkish Walnut, etc.

AMERICAN BLACK WALNUT (Juglans Nigra): Other Common Names: American Walnut, American Black Walnut, Black Walnut, Burbank Walnut, Eastern Black Walnut, Eastern Walnut, Gunwood, Virginia Walnut

* Data Published by United States Dept. of Agriculture, Forest Products Laboratory

My 500 Jeff was stocked with such a American Black Walnut stock.

I know where a stash of these are(about 2000 blanks) at ridiculous cheap prices($33) when compared to European walnut blanks.

I am more concerned about straight grain and strength rather than beauty...most seem to be quarter saw and flat saw cuts.

 

[Red Leg]

I am curious to hear a stock maker chime in on relative strength, but black walnut has been used in this country for a lot of fine, durable guns. Juglans Regia has gradually become more popular on higher end guns in recent decades, but a high grade Winchester Model 21 is a gorgeous thing with its deep chocolate red black walnut stock. The big Winchester "duck" and "magnum" 3-inch guns took a lot of punishing shooting - far more than the typical double rifle, and I do not believe that I have ever seen one with a cracked or damaged stock. My own has factory original straight grip as solid as the day it was finished.

 

[Shootist43]

This has the makings of an interesting thread. What is preferable, straight grain and strength or beauty. Obviously both have their place in firearms manufacture.

 

[Ryan]

Yep, American black walnut is stronger. But walnut is preferred for gunstocks for its beauty and working characteristics as much as strength and that is where European walnut often wins. In most cases it's strong enough for the job and it's eye catching. That said, I have a Ruger #1 in black walnut that I refinished and it's a beauty. If you're after strength, other woods are actually better. Have you ever heard of a walnut hammer handle or baseball bat? That's where hard rock maple, ash and hickory would win. But those last three are tougher to work and need to be stained to show their grain.

 

[Accidental Villain]

The Dept. of Agriculture must have used branches from a young tree or something to come up with such a ridiculous conclusion. It is commonly known that American Black walnut is more open poored thereby weaker. The oldest American walnut is from the mid 19th century.. The wood you would use in a hard recoiling rifle are typically 400 to 500 years old, and selected for exceptional density of grain and straight grain.
A couple of years ago I commissioned a custom rifle on an Oberndorf action and was writing back and forth with a gunmaker about the project and I dont have this nicname here for no reason, so in a bi-sentence I wrote in a joking way that the stockblanc I intended to use was carefully selected full fiddleback American walnut of some weird sort.... Anyways, the gunmaker refused to answer me for days, and I had to call, and during the conversation I had to promise at least 3 or 4 times that the stockblanc I had was Ruglans R. before he would discuss the project any further. He won`t see any American walnut in his workshop.
Had you only written Australian walnut. It is known to very hard despite young.

 

[nztimb]

Some great info on walnut stock blanks here at the pages he has on the various aspects of stock choice
https://www.doublegunshop.com/petehiatt.htm

 

[nztimb]

This is a piece Peter (from the gun shop in the previous post ) posted on another forum
There are several kinds of walnut in the Americas. There is the traditional American black walnut which was originally nearly all over the US East of the Mississippi. It is of two main colors of gold and red. The darker wood is the heart wood, and the lighter wood is the sap wood (But this is NOT true in English and Bastogne). The American black has a very thick shell as opposed to the longer domesticated English walnut. The American black shell is being grown to try to thin the shell. Other varieties of walnut originating in America are Butternut, Little Walnut, Arizona walnut, California walnut, and Hinds walnut which is also known as Claro walnut for its very bright colors. Hickory and pecan are close relatives.

The traditional orchard walnut is English walnut. It likely developed in Persia and being a popular meat, was transported all over the world. Some were found in the ruins of an 11,000 year old village in Switzerland. It was originally a hard shelled nut but was gradually domesticated to a thinner shelled nut. It was prized by the Romans and planted all over their domain, including England where the inhabitants named it “Waehl” nut or “strange” nut. Brought to America, it crossed with the black and Claro nuts and became known as the paradox, bastard, or Bastogne walnut. It is the densest of the walnuts with generally a greenish cast and a good deal of broken fiddle being common. It is also the fastest growing walnut but a poor nut producer. It can recross back to black, Claro, or English roughly twice before being sterile. The resulting woods can look like black or English or even both in the same tree. It is a “chippy” wood like black and Claro as opposed to English which is buttery and easier to work. The guild prefers it for this reason. English and Bastogne can have very large areas which are as light as maple and NOT sapwood.

There are many varieties of English. Old English and French are basically a dark grey tone. The French started growing Francotte which had a yellowish tone and that was ready for cutting roughly the turn of the last century. It is known as the typical French now. The Circassian (Russian) was likely Mayotte which was a more caramel colored wood with thicker dark lines. Note that the Turks call their wood Circassian, but it is not.

The University of California at Davis has an orchard with more than 100 varieties of walnut in it.

All varieties make good gunstock wood with regional differences due to climate and soil conditions and some genetic variations. Most English are grafted onto Claro or Bastogne rootstock to fight rot and insects better. This usually causes a burl in the ground which can be huge and valuable for veneering.

 

[CAustin]

Some great info on walnut stock blanks here at the pages he has on the various aspects of stock choice
https://www.doublegunshop.com/petehiatt.htm

Thanks for sharing von Gruff

 

[Accidental Villain]

Here is an article in American Hunter where Duane Wiebe is asked the same question.
There is also a top tip there for all that have plans to commission a custom. Only buy walnut thats properly dried.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2013/2/5/whats-the-best-wood-for-a-rifle-stock/

 

[sgt_zim]

Yep, American black walnut is stronger. But walnut is preferred for gunstocks for its beauty and working characteristics as much as strength and that is where European walnut often wins. In most cases it's strong enough for the job and it's eye catching. That said, I have a Ruger #1 in black walnut that I refinished and it's a beauty. If you're after strength, other woods are actually better. Have you ever heard of a walnut hammer handle or baseball bat? That's where hard rock maple, ash and hickory would win. But those last three are tougher to work and need to be stained to show their grain.

And not to mention that walnut is WAY more expensive than ash and hickory.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Lots of good info from the Wood Database.

Interesting comments on Bastogne:
Comments: Plant breeder Luther Burbank experimented with hybrid walnuts beginning in the 1890s, and cross pollinated the native Claro Walnut with English Walnut. The resulting hybrid was quite puzzling: the tree grew faster than either of the parent species, and also yielded harder and stronger lumber (though unfortunately it didn’t produce very many walnuts). Because of these anomalies, Burbank named the hybrid “Paradox.” The name Bastogne Walnut appears to be a marketing term, and is not commonly used outside of woodworking circle.

https://www.wood-database.com/black-walnut/
https://www.wood-database.com/english-walnut/
https://www.wood-database.com/bastogne-walnut/
https://www.wood-database.com/claro-walnut/

 

[CBH Australia]

I read this quickly but first. Thing I noticed is it seems there are European and American.
So the Turkish Walnut on my shotgun is European, a fine English walnut is the same species?? But an American Walnut is a seperate species is that correct?
So are all Europe’s walnut the same species and it’s simply a matter of where it actually grew is that right?
I realise some trees may be older and some slabs will be nicer but possibly the same type of tree.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’ve always wondered what other woods would make good stocks. I would be tempted to try good dry hedge, but working it would be awful. Hickory has a stringy twisty grain which splits hard, but seems to flex more. Ash seem to split very easy, don’t know how that would work for a stock. Red elm is like concrete when hard and very stringy. Oak is the heaviest wood I deal with, and walnut cuts about the easiest.

But, I’m not a woodworker, I’m a farmer who helps a logger in the winter, and cuts firewood for spare money. I was just thinking out loud.

 

[nztimb]

I’ve always wondered what other woods would make good stocks. I would be tempted to try good dry hedge, but working it would be awful. Hickory has a stringy twisty grain which splits hard, but seems to flex more. Ash seem to split very easy, don’t know how that would work for a stock. Red elm is like concrete when hard and very stringy. Oak is the heaviest wood I deal with, and walnut cuts about the easiest.

But, I’m not a woodworker, I’m a farmer who helps a logger in the winter, and cuts firewood for spare money. I was just thinking out loud.

Hard isn't the main criteria as there is a brittlness factor to the cellular structure to take into account as well. Many woods are hard enough but they also have a weight that makes them unsuitable. Many woods have been tried and maple is another that is a good stockwood with some of the other fruitwoods also having been used (cherry and pear from my knowledge)
Fajens used to offer myrtlewood and mesquite

 

[nztimb]

A few pages from an old Reinhart Fajen catalogue that gave me a lot of information and ideas many years ago with a variety of stock shapes and wood options.

 

[IvW]

I do not need all the fancy stuff, nice straight grain in dark wood with some black lines streaks is good enough, I need it to be strong and durable not beautiful.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Thanks for inserting those catalogue pages, Von G!

 

[HuntingGold]

I'm sitting on several stock blanks now and can hardly wait to get after them. I have an exceptionally nice piece of myrtlewood that is going to be spectacular.
I bought a piece of fancy black walnut about three weeks ago... just before this virus thing hit. It had a major flaw, a knot, that brought the price down tremendously. After fooling with it over and over, I determined it could be worked around. Should also be an interesting piece when done.

Thanks for all the great information.

 

[bruce moulds]

many woods have certain merits for stocks, but few have the balance of qualities that walnut has.
these include weight, hardness, and most important stability when properly cured.
probably stability is the most important, because we want a gun to retain good bedding qualities to hold zero and grouping.
there are different levels of quality within a walnut variety, so good quality second grade variety might be better than 2nd quality better variety.
bruce.