AGENT: Ripped Off!

[MSTJEAN]

Right.
Probably a good thing he is out of state.
I tried to get them to "Man Up" but no doing. PI is being great guy and not charging me but keeping up the pressure on his law enforcement buddies as well as making this guy a personal mission. They have offended the hunting Gods and karma will prevail.

 

[jeff]

I think the outfitters have some responsibility as they are the one who have contracted and paid for the booking agent to book hunts and represent them. Now they want to wash their hands and distance themselves from their agent !

 

[Philip Glass]

Update: they are completely insolvent and FBI is investigating. There is no money!
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Guys

I can give you a little more info. I booked a hunt through GSS four years ago in Poland and had great time - no issues. I went through them and the same agent to arrange a book a Romania hunt for my wife and I with touring this November. Paid just under 6K in deposits over the last 18 months and was due to pay final last week. Had received emails from GSS and the VP about possible trips as late as early July-no indication of issues. Then three week ago I get a text from the agent who had left GSS last year that he was hearing complaints from outfitters. I tried every avenue to reach GSS for info/clarification text, VM, email, phone on everyone in their catalog-nothing. Heard from two other guys hunting with same outfitter and the outfitter that he had only received small fraction of our deposits after booking. One guy got his balance paid in a week but his hunt is coming up in a couple weeks.
Had enough so hired a ex cop PI in Wyoming to rattle cages. He tracked down CEO and got the "whoa is me " song and dance. PI read him the riot act. In meantime have given statement to FBI and filed formal charges with local law enforcement in Casper along with a bunch of other victims. PI texted me yesterday that their office and CEO house on Realtor.com. The "debt relief" consultant called me Monday to say they are working on "proportionate" refunds. All due respect to the JDs out there(I am married to one) but group trying to arrange civil litigation for pennies on the dollar with retainer fees that just equal half what I lost already. Keeping pressure on law enforcement. My PI says CEO had what looked like brand new 50K pickup-nice!
I like others have mentioned usually deal with outfitters directly and in person - they earn my repeat business. Hoping others keep the hardline and don't turn the other cheek.
Mike St.Jean

Mike
If you can let me know how to get in touch with FBI or others investigating this.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

I think the outfitters have some responsibility as they are the one who have contracted and paid for the booking agent to book hunts and represent them. Now they want to wash their hands and distance themselves from their agent !

Not sure about that. From what I know this was a bomb that was dropped and they didn’t know anything was wrong.

 

[Philip Glass]

Second Wind, the company that was to be helping GSS reorganize and pay some money back, contacted me and said there is nothing for them to do as there is absolutely no money! This is a serious fraud as a booking agency is in no way entitled to this money but only a % for their fee.
What a black eye for our industry! I feel bad for others as I am only out a small amount of money while many are out tens of thousands.
Philip

 

[TheGrayRider]

This booking agent is completely insolvent but driving a brand, new loaded pickup truck per the earlier post in this thread? I am not getting something here!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Update: they are completely insolvent and FBI is investigating. There is no money!
Philip

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme and not enough new clients to keep it going.

 

[Brent in Az]

This booking agent is completely insolvent but driving a brand, new loaded pickup truck per the earlier post in this thread? I am not getting something here!

He probably won't be driving it much longer.

 

[TheGrayRider]

What is the average commission in the hunting industry for a booking agent? 10%? 15%? 25%?

 

[jeff]

Not sure about that. From what I know this was a bomb that was dropped and they didn’t know anything was wrong.

My thought was if the agent was great the outfitter would bask in good PR and love it but when the opposite is true they want nothing to do with their agent. I realize that they are caught in the middle but they are the ones who hired them to to represent them and collect their clients funds so I think they have some responsibility.

 

[TheGrayRider]

My thought was if the agent was great the outfitter would bask in good PR and love it but when the opposite is true they want nothing to do with their agent. I realize that they are caught in the middle but they are the ones who hired them to to represent them and collect their clients funds so I think they have some responsibility.

Fiduciary relationship. If booking agent steals and converts hunter’s paid funds that are rightfully due outfitter, what legal concept are you attempting to hold outfitter responsible? Co-conspirator theory?

 

[jeff]

Fiduciary relationship. If booking agent steals and converts hunter’s paid funds that are rightfully due outfitter, what legal concept are you attempting to hold outfitter responsible? Co-conspirator theory?

No legal responsibility, but maybe ethical responsibility to some extent. As a sub contractor when the contractor went BR I felt I still had a ethical responsibility to people I subbed out additional work to and my guys.

 

[Philip Glass]

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme and not enough new clients to keep it going.

That’s what I was thinking.

 

[Philip Glass]

My thought was if the agent was great the outfitter would bask in good PR and love it but when the opposite is true they want nothing to do with their agent. I realize that they are caught in the middle but they are the ones who hired them to to represent them and collect their clients funds so I think they have some responsibility.

I disagree. The outfitters are busy guiding hunts and trust the agent with the money and bookings. How is a hunting guide responsible for a crime he had nothing to do with? Remember this case is not just a “bad deal” this is a felony being investigated by the FBI. I don’t blame my outfitter and will pay and hunt with him this fall.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

No legal responsibility, but maybe ethical responsibility to some extent. As a sub contractor when the contractor went BR I felt I still had a ethical responsibility to people I subbed out additional work to and my guys.

Now that I agree with!

 

[Philip Glass]

I wonder if the owner Rick Was just using the money for his own hunts? Just shuffling money around like a Ponzi scheme. I hope if anyone gets any updates they will post them here.
Philip

 

[jeff]

I disagree. The outfitters are busy guiding hunts and trust the agent with the money and bookings. How is a hunting guide responsible for a crime he had nothing to do with? Remember this case is not just a “bad deal” this is a felony being investigated by the FBI. I don’t blame my outfitter and will pay and hunt with him this fall.
Philip

The outfitter was ripped off no doubt, but since agent was in employed by the outfitter and the client is instructed by the outfitter to pay his funds to their agent, it's part of his business operation, some moral or ethical responsibility ? He needs to run his business like a business and oversee where the clients funds are going. I'm not implying that the outfitter was crooked but did he oversee things properly? How many hunts were booked and he not receive payment promptly ? Did it go on for some time?

 

[TheGrayRider]

No legal responsibility, but maybe ethical responsibility to some extent. As a sub contractor when the contractor went BR I felt I still had a ethical responsibility to people I subbed out additional work to and my guys.

Jeff, I could not agree more. However, you are using a word that is not in fraudsters or common thieves vocabularies- responsibility.

The outfitter was ripped off no doubt, but since agent was in employed by the outfitter and the client is instructed by the outfitter to pay his funds to their agent, it's part of his business operation, some moral or ethical responsibility ? He needs to run his business like a business and oversee where the clients funds are going. I'm not implying that the outfitter was crooked but did he oversee things properly? How many hunts were booked and he not receive payment promptly ? Did it go on for some time?

The booking agent and the outfitter probably had a contractual relationship, not an employment relationship. The old independent contractor vs. employee argument. Regardless, fraud is still fraud, assuming that is apropos in this matter.

 

[Sako AV]

Sorry that this happened to you. I, like others have stated, used to get emails from them promoting hunts and "deals". I got one early in the spring stating that GSS purchased their own Estancia in Argentina and they were offering great prices in an effort to get the business going for the first season. A combo hunt for Red Stag, Axis and Fallow was in the ball park of $6-7K with 7 days of hunting and no size restrictions. I no longer have the email but I spoke with Todd Cast who was some type of manager for the company regarding this package. He did the hard sell, spots are going fast, can pretty much guarantee well scoring trophies for each species routine in a ten minute phone call. He said that I should put in a deposit (50%) at that time to secure a spot for the initial season at the advertised prices. I asked about the available dates and references prior to doing so and was told he'd email the information later that day. Surprise, surprise I never heard back from him even though I called and texted several times after that! I wonder if everyone's deposits/payments went to their supposed acquisition of this property?